Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[Duck]

Oh didn't you know, people can persecute homosexuals a little, but there's a limit as to how much

I was confused the same, it really does sound like the OP wanted to see whether Christians persecute them just a little too much.

It does make the OP seem as if he feels that being broken on the rack or the wheel is too much, but being fired from your job is ok. But then, we all ready established that because after all, we homos are just whining.

 

[Magic Man]

I keep hearing about how horrible Christians are for persecuting homosexuals. That Christians hate homosexuals, and that Christians view homosexuals as abominations. However, is that really the case?

I believe that it is only a minority of Christians who view homosexuals as abominations. I would admit that many do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that is far from being an abomination.

It's a minority of Christians who think that homosexuality is an abomination and actively persecute the LBGT community. However, it seems to be a majority of Christians and Americans in general who at least have the thought in their head that there's something wrong with homosexuality. For instance, my old manager was Christian, but he was also pretty liberal. His view on the subject was that homosexuality wasn't part of his morality, but he didn't really care what other people did. As you say, many do believe it's wrong and a sin, and even if they don't go preaching against it or anything, that mindset still makes discrimination worse.

 

[Duck]

Or perhaps because the vast majority of self-identified "Christians" do it.

And similarly, there doesn't seem to be much effort from any of the "christians," fundamentalist nuts or not, to deal with divorce. Which is really odd, given that divorce rates in the US are what, nearly 50% within the first 5 years or something like that? I particularly like to point out that Massachusetts, the state which legalized same-sex marriage first in the US, continues to have the one of if not the lowest divorce rates in the country, as well as one of if not the lowest teen pregnancy rates. Which Mass. had prior to marriage equality. Terrible things happen when gays can marry folks, terrible things.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

It's a minority of Christians who think that homosexuality is an abomination and actively persecute the LBGT community. However, it seems to be a majority of Christians and Americans in general who at least have the thought in their head that there's something wrong with homosexuality. For instance, my old manager was Christian, but he was also pretty liberal. His view on the subject was that homosexuality wasn't part of his morality, but he didn't really care what other people did. As you say, many do believe it's wrong and a sin, and even if they don't go preaching against it or anything, that mindset still makes discrimination worse.

And yet, many MANY of these "moderate Christians" place bumper stickers on their cars or signs on their lawns that clearly state "Marriage = One Man + One Woman."

If any message is being shoved in people's faces, it's that.

 

[Nerthus]

It does make the OP seem as if he feels that being broken on the rack or the wheel is too much, but being fired from your job is ok. But then, we all ready established that because after all, we homos are just whining.

Oh of course, we have no reason to complain.

I guess no matter what, there will always be people who feel that way, that gay people should have to put up with whatever is thrown at them.

 

[logician]

I keep hearing about how horrible Christians are for persecuting homosexuals. That Christians hate homosexuals, and that Christians view homosexuals as abominations. However, is that really the case?

I believe that it is only a minority of Christians who view homosexuals as abominations. I would admit that many do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that is far from being an abomination.

Yes, in many cases. I've heard stuff that would curl your hair.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Yes, in many cases. I've heard stuff that would curl your hair.

Me too. When it's assumed that I'm straight because I'm married to a man, the things I hear from "moderates" who think they're safely insulated from the ears of gays and lesbians. It's disturbing.

 

[Duck]

Me too. When it's assumed that I'm straight because I'm married to a man, the things I hear from "moderates" who think they're safely insulated from the ears of gays and lesbians. It's disturbing.

I hear stuff like that too, I think mostly because those "moderates" assume that gay men are all as blatant as Jack from Will and Grace or normally dress like they are on the Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

 

[Caladan]

I agree that homophobia may run deeper than religious sentiment, but it I think is largely fueled by religious sentiment. Secular nations generally are more LGBT friendly, beyond action from the occasional religious nutjob, how much anti-lgbt violence or rhetoric comes out of, say, Sweden? Or Israel? Denmark? I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that anti-lgbt violence and laws strongly correlate with religiousness, and probably most strongly with the younger of the two Abrahamic religions.

Yes I agree for the most part, as my post may indicate, I just feel its important to remember that the struggle for normality needs to be appreciated in its full scope. for example i've seen completely secular people fall into homophobia, while I've seen religious Jews taking part in gay pride parades in Israel in order to show their support for the LGBT community and their rights. I think that if in the future the legal issues will be reformed, mostly by countering the pressure from religious communities or organizations, the next step would be to face the prejudice against homosexuals in society and culture itself, beyond religion.

 

[Magic Man]

And yet, many MANY of these "moderate Christians" place bumper stickers on their cars or signs on their lawns that clearly state "Marriage = One Man + One Woman."

If any message is being shoved in people's faces, it's that.

Yes, that's true. That's kind of what I was saying. They may not be the Westboro type and they may try to distance themselves from them, but then they don't realize that their views or actions are just as, if not more, harmful than the WBC.

 

[fallingblood]

I love how my words have been twisted to make it seem as if I condone the persecution and hatred of homosexuals. I've never stated that all homosexuals just whine about it. I've never said that I don't think homosexuals should have the same rights as I do. I didn't even state that Christians don't persecute homosexuals. I clearly stated that Christians do persecute homosexuals, but that it is a minority. But I'm a bigot? I support gay marriage, and stated that I think they should have as much right as heterosexuals. But I'm a bigot because I think some homosexuals have blown it out of proportion, equating themselves with the black struggle we saw a few decades ago.

Yes, I use the word homosexual instead of gay. The reason is simple. On more than one occasion I've been lectured by homosexuals about how offensive gay is. So I don't use it. Seriously, that is wrong? Oh but I'm a bigot. I'm even apart of the local gay-straight alliance, and have done various shows for them, but I'm a bigot.

And you think I've never been persecuted? I got the crap beaten out of me because I was a muslim during 9/11 and I supposedly supported the killing of our people. I got daily threats from people because I "supported" killing of our troops because I was muslim. It's part of life. I'm not saying it's right, but it just happened. I believe persecution in any form is wrong. But I also believe that homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion. Especially after seeing what is being said here. I mean, it seems as if they would like us to believe they are the only ones persecuted.

Personally, I was speaking specifically about the United States. In other countries though, yes, Christians are killed simply for being Christians. Some are killed simply because they are the wrong type of Christian. The world is full of persecution. To try to make it out as if homosexuals are getting the brunt of it though is crap.

Now, my question was never if Christians persecute homosexuals. Of course they do. My question was are they overly persecuting homosexuals. I explained more in later posts. Some homosexuals make it seem as if the only purpose of the church is to condemn homosexuals. That their only purpose is to persecute them. That somehow saying homosexuals are sinning is doing more than just that. Are homosexuals experiencing the same persecution that women and blacks did a few decades back? Not at all. Do they feel some persecution, yes. But I don't think it is to the level that some are making it out to be.

The fact is homosexuals are gaining more freedoms all the time. We have a president in office that believes homosexuals should be able to openly join the military. We are getting closer to that day. We are seeing some churches open up and actually allowing openly homosexual ministers. We are seeing homosexuals beginning to gain the right to wed. Yes, there is still hatred out there, but that goes with being a minority. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact. But we are moving by leaps and bounds in order to give homosexuals the same rights that we all do. That is what I've been saying. But I guess that doesn't matter because I'm a bigot.

 

[Smoke]

I believe persecution in any form is wrong. But I also believe that homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion. Especially after seeing what is being said here.

Bigots always believe that bigotry is blown out of proportion.

I mean, it seems as if they would like us to believe they are the only ones persecuted.

Nobody said anything like that.

But I guess that doesn't matter because I'm a bigot.

I believe you.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I love how my words have been twisted to make it seem as if I condone the persecution and hatred of homosexuals. I've never stated that all homosexuals just whine about it. I've never said that I don't think homosexuals should have the same rights as I do. I didn't even state that Christians don't persecute homosexuals. I clearly stated that Christians do persecute homosexuals, but that it is a minority. But I'm a bigot? I support gay marriage, and stated that I think they should have as much right as heterosexuals. But I'm a bigot because I think some homosexuals have blown it out of proportion, equating themselves with the black struggle we saw a few decades ago.

Yes, I use the word homosexual instead of gay. The reason is simple. On more than one occasion I've been lectured by homosexuals about how offensive gay is. So I don't use it. Seriously, that is wrong? Oh but I'm a bigot. I'm even apart of the local gay-straight alliance, and have done various shows for them, but I'm a bigot.

And you think I've never been persecuted? I got the crap beaten out of me because I was a muslim during 9/11 and I supposedly supported the killing of our people. I got daily threats from people because I "supported" killing of our troops because I was muslim. It's part of life. I'm not saying it's right, but it just happened. I believe persecution in any form is wrong. But I also believe that homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion. Especially after seeing what is being said here. I mean, it seems as if they would like us to believe they are the only ones persecuted.

Personally, I was speaking specifically about the United States. In other countries though, yes, Christians are killed simply for being Christians. Some are killed simply because they are the wrong type of Christian. The world is full of persecution. To try to make it out as if homosexuals are getting the brunt of it though is crap.

Now, my question was never if Christians persecute homosexuals. Of course they do. My question was are they overly persecuting homosexuals. I explained more in later posts. Some homosexuals make it seem as if the only purpose of the church is to condemn homosexuals. That their only purpose is to persecute them. That somehow saying homosexuals are sinning is doing more than just that. Are homosexuals experiencing the same persecution that women and blacks did a few decades back? Not at all. Do they feel some persecution, yes. But I don't think it is to the level that some are making it out to be.

The fact is homosexuals are gaining more freedoms all the time. We have a president in office that believes homosexuals should be able to openly join the military. We are getting closer to that day. We are seeing some churches open up and actually allowing openly homosexual ministers. We are seeing homosexuals beginning to gain the right to wed. Yes, there is still hatred out there, but that goes with being a minority. I'm not saying it is right, but it is a fact. But we are moving by leaps and bounds in order to give homosexuals the same rights that we all do. That is what I've been saying. But I guess that doesn't matter because I'm a bigot.

I never called you a bigot, fallingblood. I'm sorry you had to go through what you went through after 9/11.

But the fact remains that as long as people have the right to vote their bigotry into law, the proof is in the pudding.

 

[fallingblood]

I never called you a bigot, fallingblood. I'm sorry you had to go through what you went through after 9/11.

But the fact remains that as long as people have the right to vote their bigotry into law, the proof is in the pudding.

I agree with you. But I think the people who are voting the bigotry into the laws is really declining. We are seeing more and more freedom and equality for nearly everyone.

However, I also realize that we will never have full equality in the United States. It is an impossibility as long as we believe people can better themselves as well.

And I know you didn't call me a bigot. I appreciate the way you've approached this subject.

 

[fallingblood]

Bigots always believe that bigotry is blown out of proportion.

So you think it is accurate that homosexuals have it just as bad as blacks did a few decades ago? That the current homosexual struggle is equal to the struggle that blacks did a few decades ago?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It's rather naive to not see that there is an overall, underlying current of homophobia and anti-gay bias among christians (along with certain other religions). Whether it is generally overt or not is somewhat irrelevant, as when the majority of people in a society subscribe to a belief system which marginalizes certain groups of people, that marginalization will always result in those groups being relegated as second-class citizens.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

So you think it is accurate that homosexuals have it just as bad as blacks did a few decades ago? That the current homosexual struggle is equal to the struggle that blacks did a few decades ago?

Does it matter?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree with you. But I think the people who are voting the bigotry into the laws is really declining. We are seeing more and more freedom and equality for nearly everyone.

Prop 8?

However, I also realize that we will never have full equality in the United States. It is an impossibility as long as we believe people can better themselves as well.

I don't understand where you're coming from, but as long as I have a voice, I'm going to speak up. I have experience in talking a LOT as a chick.

And I know you didn't call me a bigot. I appreciate the way you've approached this subject.

Thank you. I do, however, think you're grossly underestimating the level of bigotry in this country against GLBTQs.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

So you think it is accurate that homosexuals have it just as bad as blacks did a few decades ago? That the current homosexual struggle is equal to the struggle that blacks did a few decades ago?

Why compare who has it worse? The struggle for racial equality never has and never will be the same as the struggle for gender equality. And neither will ever be the same as the struggle for sexual orientation equality. Bigots have always found unique justifications for oppressing each demographic, but for the black, the woman, the homosexual......all share the common goal of having just as much rights as everybody else.

 

[Smoke]

So you think it is accurate that homosexuals have it just as bad as blacks did a few decades ago? That the current homosexual struggle is equal to the struggle that blacks did a few decades ago?

Of course it's not exactly the same thing. Black people were discriminated against in ways that gay people are not, and gay people are discriminated against in ways that black people were not. (Then there are those lucky people who are both black and gay.) So what?

Both struggles do have a lot in common: liberal clergy on the side of civil rights, conservative clergy against civil rights, and morons who think members of the minority in question are just making too big a deal of the discrimination they have to face.