Do Christians really overly persecute homosexuals?

[Magic Man]

But I'm a bigot because I think some homosexuals have blown it out of proportion, equating themselves with the black struggle we saw a few decades ago.

I'm not sure that would make you a bigot, but it it sure does make you ignorant and some other things I won't say. When your basic rights are being denied and you are the target of discrimination, there's no such thing as blowing it out of proportion. And yes, it is similar to the struggle of black people a few decades ago, and women before that.

But I also believe that homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion.

And I believe that your view is skewed.

Especially after seeing what is being said here. I mean, it seems as if they would like us to believe they are the only ones persecuted.

Can you point out a comment that makes it seem like anyone wants you to believe that they're the only ones being persecuted?

Personally, I was speaking specifically about the United States. In other countries though, yes, Christians are killed simply for being Christians. Some are killed simply because they are the wrong type of Christian. The world is full of persecution. To try to make it out as if homosexuals are getting the brunt of it though is crap.

You're right. Because they don't have it as bad as people in some theocracies, there shouldn't even be a problem. They should just quit their whining and accept their lot in life.

Do they feel some persecution, yes. But I don't think it is to the level that some are making it out to be.

Some persecution is all there needs to be for it to be a big problem.

 

[Autodidact]

I keep hearing about how horrible Christians are for persecuting homosexuals. That Christians hate homosexuals, and that Christians view homosexuals as abominations. However, is that really the case?

I believe that it is only a minority of Christians who view homosexuals as abominations. I would admit that many do believe that homosexuality is a sin, but that is far from being an abomination.

cf Uganda.

 

[fallingblood]

It's rather naive to not see that there is an overall, underlying current of homophobia and anti-gay bias among christians (along with certain other religions). Whether it is generally overt or not is somewhat irrelevant, as when the majority of people in a society subscribe to a belief system which marginalizes certain groups of people, that marginalization will always result in those groups being relegated as second-class citizens.

I agree that there is certainly an underlying current of homophobia among Christians. I'm aware that most likely the majority of Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. But, I would say that it is only a minority of those Christians that actually outwardly, or overly persecute homosexuals.

We see the same thing being true for people who are atheists, subscribe to a different religion, lie, cheat, steal, etc. They are considered sinners. Big deal though. I know it can be annoying. I know it can get frustrating. But it is part of life. Not everyone is going to accept everything we do. Christians get the same exact thing as well.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I agree that there is certainly an underlying current of homophobia among Christians. I'm aware that most likely the majority of Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. But, I would say that it is only a minority of those Christians that actually outwardly, or overly persecute homosexuals.

We see the same thing being true for people who are atheists, subscribe to a different religion, lie, cheat, steal, etc. They are considered sinners. Big deal though. I know it can be annoying. I know it can get frustrating. But it is part of life. Not everyone is going to accept everything we do. Christians get the same exact thing as well.

Except all the other people you mentioned get equal rights as citizens.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I agree that there is certainly an underlying current of homophobia among Christians. I'm aware that most likely the majority of Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. But, I would say that it is only a minority of those Christians that actually outwardly, or overly persecute homosexuals.

We see the same thing being true for people who are atheists, subscribe to a different religion, lie, cheat, steal, etc. They are considered sinners. Big deal though. I know it can be annoying. I know it can get frustrating. But it is part of life. Not everyone is going to accept everything we do. Christians get the same exact thing as well.

They can think however they want to think. They can say whatever they want to say about me to their circle of friends.....heaven only knows just how much gossip I've provided for our neighbors and acquaintances (LOL).....but the minute they decide to take their issues with me and vote them into law, I don't play nice anymore.

 

[Smoke]

Except all the other people you mentioned get equal rights as citizens.

Bingo.

 

[linwood]

Except all the other people you mentioned get equal rights as citizens.

Exactly.

That is the difference and it is a huge difference.

 

[fallingblood]

Prop 8?

I would say that is an exception. That is simply a stumble in the long run. It should not have happened, but it is the exception, not the rule.

I don't understand where you're coming from, but as long as I have a voice, I'm going to speak up. I have experience in talking a LOT as a chick.

Living in a place where the belief is that everyone is equal, as well as one that we can better ourselves, the fact becomes that some people are "more equal" than others. As long as we live in a society that people can better themselves, that they are free to become more successful or powerful, not everyone is going to be equal. There will be people who are better off. With this, there will be some discrimination. I believe that is just part of life, simply because not everyone can be fully equal.

Thank you. I do, however, think you're grossly underestimating the level of bigotry in this country against GLBTQs.

I would accept that I might be underestimating the level of bigotry. I don't want to downplay the problems that are being faced by homosexuals. I know they don't quite have all of the rights that heterosexuals do, and that is wrong. I know that there are some people who are of the idea that homosexuals do not deserve to live, and that it is alright to beat them.

My point though is that it is being blown out of proportion by some. For instance, on this forum, there have been numerous threads created to do nothing more than attack fundamental Christians simply because they believe that homosexuality is a sin. By the way some are talking, it would seem as if fundamental Christians, as a whole, are out there beating homosexuals, or trying to kill them because they are sinning.

 

[Magic Man]

But, I would say that it is only a minority of those Christians that actually outwardly, or overly persecute homosexuals.

First, I think the harsh reaction you got from the beginning was from your wording. When you say "overly persecute homosexuals", it makes it sound like you think there's a level of persecution that's acceptable, and these people go past that line.

Second, as has been explained, it may only be a minority of Christians who act out against the LGBT community, but it's the majority of them that think there's something wrong/bad about LGBT's, and that creates as much persecution as the minority who are active about it.

We see the same thing being true for people who are atheists, subscribe to a different religion, lie, cheat, steal, etc. They are considered sinners. Big deal though. I know it can be annoying. I know it can get frustrating. But it is part of life. Not everyone is going to accept everything we do. Christians get the same exact thing as well.

Kilgore said it best.

 

[fallingblood]

Why compare who has it worse? The struggle for racial equality never has and never will be the same as the struggle for gender equality. And neither will ever be the same as the struggle for sexual orientation equality. Bigots have always found unique justifications for oppressing each demographic, but for the black, the woman, the homosexual......all share the common goal of having just as much rights as everybody else.

The reason I bring it up is in reference to something I stated earlier. I've heard some homosexuals state that their struggle is equal to the black struggle. That is what I mean by blowing the current struggle of homosexuals out of proportion. Yes, their is a struggle. However, to compare it to the struggle black people had is blowing it out of proportion.

 

[fallingblood]

Of course it's not exactly the same thing. Black people were discriminated against in ways that gay people are not, and gay people are discriminated against in ways that black people were not. (Then there are those lucky people who are both black and gay.) So what?

Going back to what I said earlier, some homosexuals equate their current struggle to what blacks went through a few decades ago. That is what I mean by blowing the current struggle out of proportion.

Yes, the current discrimination that homosexuals face is horrible. It should not be happening. However, I think it is stretching the facts greatly to say that the struggle that homosexuals are facing is the same that blacks faced.

Both struggles do have a lot in common: liberal clergy on the side of civil rights, conservative clergy against civil rights, and morons who think members of the minority in question are just making too big a deal of the discrimination they have to face.

I wouldn't say that all homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion. I may have used a sweeping generalization in my beginning post. That was a mistake on my part. I tried to clear this up in future posts, but my point seems to have been misconstrued to a point.

I'm not speaking against all homosexuals, and implying that they all are blowing the current struggle out of proportion. I'm saying some are doing just that though.

 

[Michigan Atheist]

I would say that is an exception. That is simply a stumble in the long run. It should not have happened, but it is the exception, not the rule.

But prop 8 ISN'T the exception to the rule in many, many states. Only a very few number of states actually have LAWS that protect the rights of homosexuals in areas like health care, decisions on partner's right to life issues, and many others. I don't know how old most of those on here are, but I grew up in the South during the Civil Rights era, and while homosexuals don't have the SAME issues that African-Americans faced, being denied access to certain places, education, and such; there are some similarities and a struggle for recognized Civil Rights is a struggle, make no mistake about it.

 

[MacKinnon]

How can you claim they are blowing their struggle out of proportion, when you are not a part of it? How can you possibly know and be able to measure the magnitude of abuse homosexuals experience? Even if you were armed with such knowledge, just how exactly could you use it in correlation with the struggles of black people in the past (and perhaps the present)?

 

[fallingblood]

I'm not sure that would make you a bigot, but it it sure does make you ignorant and some other things I won't say. When your basic rights are being denied and you are the target of discrimination, there's no such thing as blowing it out of proportion. And yes, it is similar to the struggle of black people a few decades ago, and women before that.

So, since I'm discriminated against as a Jew, and an atheist, it is alright for me to equate my personal struggle with that of homosexuals? It is alright to state that my personal struggle is similar to that of what blacks felt a few decades ago? It is alright for me to attack anyone who may discriminate against me in anyway, or say that I'm a sinner?

And I believe that your view is skewed.

I would agree that what I said was skewed, simply because I made a sweeping generalization, when I shouldn't have. I should have added the word some, as in some homosexuals are blowing it out of proportion.

You're right. Because they don't have it as bad as people in some theocracies, there shouldn't even be a problem. They should just quit their whining and accept their lot in life.

You are misrepresenting what I stated. Being such, it does not warrant a rebuttal.

Some persecution is all there needs to be for it to be a big problem.

So where do we draw the line? I feel some persecution for looking Arab. I feel some persecution because I have a darker skin complexion and people in my community believe that I'm Native American. I feel persecution because I'm a Jew. I feel persecution because of my religious beliefs. Where should the line be drawn?

 

[Smoke]

The reason I bring it up is in reference to something I stated earlier. I've heard some homosexuals state that their struggle is equal to the black struggle. That is what I mean by blowing the current struggle of homosexuals out of proportion. Yes, their is a struggle. However, to compare it to the struggle black people had is blowing it out of proportion.

Until 2003, it was a felony for two men or two women to have sex in South Carolina, where I live. In most of the country we still can't marry, and when we do our marriages aren't recognized across state lines or by the federal government. We're not protected by federal anti-discrimination laws and we were not protected by federal hate crimes laws until last year. You don't have to tell your parents you're black. Your parents don't throw you out of the house for being black. You don't get shipped off to Christian brainwashing centers to try to force you to stop being black. Your preacher doesn't tell you you're going to hell for being black. The Catholics and the Mormons and the Evangelicals don't say black people are the biggest threat to civilization. The foreign spouses of black heterosexuals are allowed to immigrate to this country. Black heterosexuals don't lose everything when their spouse dies because their surviving in-laws have rights and they have none. Black heterosexuals are not told they can't see their dying spouse or have any information about her because they're not family.

Now, if I were a ******* idiot, I'd say, "Black people never had to face anything like what gay people have to face." And it would be true to a certain extent, but it would be a ******* stupid thing to say, because oppression takes many forms, and of course different groups are not always persecuted in exactly the same way. But oppression is always wrong, and people who want to minimize it and spend their time criticizing the people who "whine" about it are always wrong, too.

 

[MacKinnon]

Where should the line be drawn? Really?

People should not be persecuted, period.

 

[fallingblood]

Except all the other people you mentioned get equal rights as citizens.

What rights don't they share?

 

[Smoke]

So, since I'm discriminated against as a Jew, and an atheist, it is alright for me to equate my personal struggle with that of homosexuals? It is alright to state that my personal struggle is similar to that of what blacks felt a few decades ago?

How hypocritical is it to say gay people should never compare their struggle to the struggle of black people, and then have the audacity to compare your struggle as an American Jew and atheist to the struggle of gay people?

 

[fallingblood]

They can think however they want to think. They can say whatever they want to say about me to their circle of friends.....heaven only knows just how much gossip I've provided for our neighbors and acquaintances (LOL).....but the minute they decide to take their issues with me and vote them into law, I don't play nice anymore.

I agree that once people want to vote bigotry into the laws, something needs to be done. Once violence, or the threat of violence occurs, something needs to be done. Teasing, or saying someone is a sinner, I don't think there is much to worry about there.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What rights don't they share?

Are you being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, or are you really that ignorant?