Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies?

[ἀλήθεια]

To claim that God is without passions, refers to His not having mood swings.

Classic theism teaches that God is impassible — not subject to suffering, pain, or the ebb and flow of involuntary passions. In the words of the Westminster Confession of Faith, God is "without body, parts, or passions, immutable."
www.theopedia.com/Impassibility_of_God

God is without passions. He is not overwhelmed by any emotion, he is not incapacitated or weakened or stifled by any event or any amount of grief or love. Rather, God is totally self-controlled. While God does grieve, and does passionately love, he does so completely on purpose.
List of God's known attributes - Theopedia

ἀλήθεια

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Believe me, roli, I wouldn't even think of imagining that I can grasp the whole concept of God. What I can grasp is the simplicity of what the Bible says about Him, rather than trying to base my entire understanding of Him on one verse (God is spirit) and then insisting that all of the passages which speak of Him as a man don't really mean what they say.

There is more than one verse pertaining to whether or not God is a man:

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:22-23)

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

Adam was the first man; there were no men before him:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)

 

[soleil10]

You're obviously using the word "passions" differently than I would. To me, lacking in passions is the same thing as lacking in emotions. If you say God has no passions, what do you mean by that?

I did not say God has no passions. I wrote God has emotions like us. Please read my post again.

I also wrote that to experience love, it takes two. We cannot experience love alone.

 

[Katzpur]

I did not say God has no passions. I wrote God has emotions like us. Please read my post again.

My apologies, soleil. I was getting you mixed up with another poster. Gotta be more careful.

 

[Scott C.]

There is more than one verse pertaining to whether or not God is a man:

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:22-23)

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

Adam was the first man; there were no men before him:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)

We see the idea of corruptible and incorruptible again in these scriptures, similar to what we find in 1 Corinthians 15. Mortal man is corruptible. God is incorruptible. A mortal body is corruptible. An immortal body, like that of God, is not.

Adam was the first man. He was the first mortal man to populate the earth.

 

[roli]

Believe me, roli, I wouldn't even think of imagining that I can grasp the whole concept of God. What I can grasp is the simplicity of what the Bible says about Him, rather than trying to base my entire understanding of Him on one verse (God is spirit) and then insisting that all of the passages which speak of Him as a man don't really mean what they say.

I did'nt even use that scripture Katz, I think you have me confused with someone else. I know how you view that particular verse and so I avoided using it.
I have no problem with you believing God has flesh and bone and can be seen.
I can't remember , but is it you that believes what one of your Father's of the faith coined, as we are, so god once was and as god is so we can become"
If so, this will clarify much about this topic regardless of scriptural evidence.

I don't see how. Jesus Christ was identifiable in relationship to someone on whose right hand He was sitting.

I'm not questioning the relationship aspect here, but the literal verse:
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

No, but it does conclude that He can be seen, because Stephen saw Him.

If to you that means he saw his physical appearance, so be it, but what he saw first was the glory of God, to which he than saw the son of man on the right hand of the glory , do a word check on that word.
I already mentioned a few of those words in the last post.

No, His attributes are compared to the attributes of some of those things. The Bible sometimes uses symbolic, figurative language, but it's generally pretty easy to see when that's the case. In other situations, a more literal interpretation makes sense. Just as it would be a mistake to take every word in the Bible literally, it's also a mistake to try to interpret everything as symbolic or figurative, particularly when the literal meaning makes perfect sense.

That's cool , do with it as you see fit.

 

[roli]

There is more than one verse pertaining to whether or not God is a man:

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (Romans 1:22-23)

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Numbers 23:19)

Adam was the first man; there were no men before him:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (1 Corinthians 15:45)

These are excellent verses but I somehow believe it is a fixed doctrine or somehow supports a fixed doctrine in LDS and will be impenetrable without the top leaders,:say so"

 

[Katzpur]

I did'nt even use that scripture Katz, I think you have me confused with someone else. I know how you view that particular verse and so I avoided using it.

Forgive my assumption then.

I can't remember , but is it you that believes what one of your Father's of the faith coined, as we are, so god once was and as god is so we can become"
If so, this will clarify much about this topic regardless of scriptural evidence.

President Lorenzo Snow wrote a poem, in which two paired lines stated, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." He definitely wasn't the first to make a statement to that effect, though. Several of the early Church fathers made similar statements back in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

I'm not questioning the relationship aspect here, but the literal verse:
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

If to you that means he saw his physical appearance, so be it, but what he saw first was the glory of God, to which he than saw the son of man on the right hand of the glory , do a word check on that word.

I believe the scripture reads "Jesus standing on the right hand of God," nor "Jesus standing on the right hand of God's glory."

That's cool , do with it as you see fit.

Thank you. I will!

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become." He definitely wasn't the first to make a statement to that effect, though. Several of the early Church fathers made similar statements back in the 2nd and 3rd centuries.

Now if you are referring to theosis, I would say the above is certainly not what the early Fathers taught. Yes, they did teach, and it remains orthodox teaching for Eastern and Roman Christians today that man can, through Christ, come to participate in God's nature, that we will become 'divinized' in a weak sense.

Nowhere have I seen that as we are now God once was. As though God progressed.

 

[Watchmen]

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

So you believe that God is actually standing in the sky, or that heaven is above us?

Also, what of the Scriptures that say that God is invisible?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

We see the idea of corruptible and incorruptible again in these scriptures, similar to what we find in 1 Corinthians 15. Mortal man is corruptible. God is incorruptible. A mortal body is corruptible. An immortal body, like that of God, is not.

Adam was the first man. He was the first mortal man to populate the earth.

Adam was made from the dust of the earth. He was not God before the fall, and he will never be God. God has always existed and is Creator of all things. So God was never corruptible; he was not a man before the creation. He was not an incorruptible man either; he did not have flesh. Only the Son was made flesh:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)

 

[ἀλήθεια]

So you believe that God is actually standing in the sky, or that heaven is above us?

LDS teach that God's residence is the Celestial Kingdom: there are two lower heavens for less worthy people. The Celestial Kingdom is near Kolob:

And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
(LDS Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:9-10)

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Also, what of the Scriptures that say that God is invisible?

LDS teach that certain spiritual men are given eyes to see God face to face as Joseph Smith claimed to have done.

 

[Katzpur]

Now if you are referring to theosis, I would say the above is certainly not what the early Fathers taught. Yes, they did teach, and it remains orthodox teaching for Eastern and Roman Christians today that man can, through Christ, come to participate in God's nature, that we will become 'divinized' in a weak sense.

I'm refering to these statements:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?” Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”

 

[Katzpur]

So you believe that God is actually standing in the sky, or that heaven is above us?

I don't where Heaven is, but yes, I do believe that God is actually there. When Jesus left His Apostles 40 days after His resurrection, He ascended into Heaven. He did not walk into the sunset or mysteriously vanish into thin air. There are plenty of verses that specifically refer to God as being "in Heaven." That's what the Bible teaches and it's what we believe.

Also, what of the Scriptures that say that God is invisible?

The Greek word that was translated as "invisible" actually means "unseen" and not "unable to be seen." God is, by and large, "unseen." But when there are scriptures wherein people who have seen God have described Him, you need to take them into account, too.

 

[Watchmen]

LDS teach that God's residence is the Celestial Kingdom: there are two lower heavens for less worthy people. The Celestial Kingdom is near Kolob:

And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
(LDS Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:9-10)

Wrong.

 

[edward]

Wrong.

How is what she said "Wrong?" Can/will you elaborate on the points of her errors on this post?

Thanks

 

[Watchmen]

LDS teach that God's residence is the Celestial Kingdom: there are two lower heavens for less worthy people. The Celestial Kingdom is near Kolob:

And thus there shall be the reckoning of the time of one planet above another, until thou come nigh unto Kolob, which Kolob is after the reckoning of the Lord’s time; which Kolob is set nigh unto the throne of God, to govern all those planets which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
And it is given unto thee to know the set time of all the stars that are set to give light, until thou come near unto the throne of God.
(LDS Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 3:9-10)

God is in Heaven, which is near Kolob - wherever that is. His residence is not the Celestial Kingdom. The Celestial Kingdom doesn't even exist yet. This earth will be transformed into the Celestial Kingdom when the time comes.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

I'm refering to these statements:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?” Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.”

Yes, certainly, theosis is an ancient Christian doctrine, though I would say it is truly part and parcel of the Nicene/ Chalcedonian definition. One of it's greatest (early) proponents, Athanasius, rightfully sees deification as the consequence of "homoousia".

If you could give me the specific references for these quotes, that would be great. Not that I don't agree with them.

When the early Fathers talked about deification they do not mean that we would become 'gods' in the sense that God is God. Nor did they believe that God was ever anything other than what he is from eternity. Thus, I was primarily wondering where the LDS get the doctrine of God's progression from.

When human beings are divinized, it means they are brought into participation of the Divine Nature. It means our human nature is lifted up and brought into God, because God's nature has already descended and made its dwelling in man.

But it will always be His nature that we are participating in- that is to say we will always be contingent on him, and in that sense never really 'gods'.