Do innocent sinful people go to hell?

[chinu]

Yes, whether innocent or hitler-like people they will all go to hell. Why? Because I am talking about the only real hell that exists aka Sheol aka the grave. To go to hell, one only thing one needs is to have been born.

No.
To go to hell, one only thing one needs is to have born again and again.
There's difference between born and born again and again.

 

[chinu]

'Born again', is where you escape the endless Hell/s/.

Mean to say what ?

 

[chinu]

Hmm it's a term used in Christianity. 'Born again', means to accept Jesus , and //have redemptive value thusly, from that. Won't do everything, but it's better than trying to avoid Hell/s/ , on your own

Oh, Okay.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.
Melchisedek could of have been a King like Lucifer, who had kept the word of God, the book of Jasher. There were righteous people that had recorded the truth about their history. Melchisedek must of had known about the descendant of Abram will take over the land that they had possessed. Because he had went out in the wilderness to meet him. And so Mechisedekl must of had been a believer like the Magi.

At Matthew 8:22 the man's father was still alive because if he was dead the man would have been at the funeral instead of talking with Jesus. The man's son was simply not prepared to follow Jesus, rather he wanted to wait until a later time ' after ' his father had actually died.

Able and Abraham , like king David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 - are all still asleep in the grave.- John 3:13
None of the faithful of Hebrews 11 have received the promise - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

Melchizedek was both king and high priest. Jesus holds that same position as king (of God's kingdom) and high priest (atoning for our sins - 1 John 1:7)

The un-numbered magi (astrologers/ magicians) followed the star to Jesus' enemy in Jerusalem.
They were never at the manger scene. By the time they found Jesus he was a child in a house with his mother.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, the wicked will be destroyed. There is nothing about being tortured forever in a burning hell. The fire will burn them to ashes and they will exist no more.

Is it fire or, to me, the 'executional words from Jesus' mouth' that will destroy the wicked.
- Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No.
To go to hell, one only thing one needs is to have born again and again.
There's difference between born and born again and again.

Yes, Jesus was born and when Jesus died he went to hell (the Bible's temporary grave) -Acts of the Apostles 2:27
However, Jesus was Not born again, again, again, etc.
God resurrected Jesus back to life in his pre-human spirit body. Resurrected once for all time.
To me, during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth the majority of people can have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as was originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

No, they are already in hell.
Like.. the pig enjoy very much to stay in dirt.
Similarly.. innocent-sinful enjoy very much to stay in this world/hell.
Yes, the correct word is Innocent-sinful, rather than sinful.

According to Scripture, Jesus was without sin, so that would make Jesus innocent.
Yet, righteous Jesus went to hell the day he died according to Acts of the Apostles 2:27.- Psalms 16:10
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell. God resurrected Jesus out of hell.
Since Jesus and the old Hebrew Scriptures teach unconscious sleep in death, then the dead do Not know they are in biblical hell. False clergy often teach a religious-myth hell of burning forever instead of a temporary sleeping grave.
Daniel looked forward to being awakened from death's deep sleep - Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
- Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:12-14

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

• There are two different hells in the Bible. The first is the grave and the second is the fire that will burn up those who do not repent and follow God's way. esus went to the grave. No one has yet been destroyed in the fire. That will happen after Jesus returns and judges everyone. No one will be tortured in an ever burning place of pain and suffering.

 

[habiru]

At Matthew 8:22 the man's father was still alive because if he was dead the man would have been at the funeral instead of talking with Jesus. The man's son was simply not prepared to follow Jesus, rather he wanted to wait until a later time ' after ' his father had actually died.

Able and Abraham , like king David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34 - are all still asleep in the grave.- John 3:13
None of the faithful of Hebrews 11 have received the promise - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39

Melchizedek was both king and high priest. Jesus holds that same position as king (of God's kingdom) and high priest (atoning for our sins - 1 John 1:7)

The un-numbered magi (astrologers/ magicians) followed the star to Jesus' enemy in Jerusalem.
They were never at the manger scene. By the time they found Jesus he was a child in a house with his mother.

The star that they were following had led them to Bethlehem. Where Jesus was around the age of one year old. Herod never received info about, did the Magis ever found Jesus. And so He has told them to kill any young male that were under the age of two because from what the magis had estimated of the time that he was supposedly to be born. When they visited Herod, Jesus has already has been born. But they estimated the time frame of when the star had appeared in the sky. And so it depends on what country did the magis had came from. China is in the east from Israel, and so is India and which both of these countries were into astrology. And so it depends on how many days journey that it has taken them. Jesus probably were born months before they has decided to take the long journey on the backs on what type of animal. Elephants are used as transportation in these two countries. But then they could of had rode on the backs of horses and which they are a lot faster, carrying with them small bags of gifts.

 

[Fool]

Okay Fool, take a look at this:

The Truth About Melchizedek

Here is a column which I consider will crack under the building of Christianity. Who was Melchizedek? This man was a pagan Canaanite king, who happened to be the king of Salem, ancient name for Jerusalem.

Abram had just returned from a battle with five kings, and, on his way to Beersheba, he paused in Jerusalem for a repast. He and his men were tired and weary of the military campaign. Melchizedek, afraid perhaps that Abram would take on him too and conquer Jerusalem out of his hands, immediately brought forth bread and wine to him and his troops. For Abram, it was a relieve. He didn't have to fight another king.

Now, please, I must remind you that I am reading from the originals in Hebrew and not from the Gentile adulterated version of the KJV. Why would Melchizedek prefer to feed Abram and his army instead of fighting him? Because he, Abram, and not Melchizedek was the priest of God most High, whose seed would be of a nation of priests and kings. (Exod. 19:6; Isa. 61:6)

Then, as Melchizedek served the food and drink, he blessed Abram. Please focus on how he blessed Abram. "Blessed be Abram of God Most High." It means that Melchizedek would recognize that Abram was the one Priest of God the Most High. Creator of the universe." Then, for all the bread and wine, and that blessing of recognition of who Abram really was, Abram shared with him a tenth of the spoils taken from the kings in battle.

Now, let us check Psalm 110:4, which in the KJV says, "The Lord has sworn and will not repent, you are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This is a Christian gloss plagiarized by Paul and grossly forged by the Church in the 4th Century under the excuse of pious forgery.

Here is what Psalm 110:4 says in the originals in Hebrew: "The Lord has sworn and will not relent, you are a priest forever; a rightful king by My decree." As you can see, it has nothing to do with king Melchizedek, king of Salem, but rather to David in the type level of interpretation, which points to the archetype level of Israel, the seed of Abraham as a nation of priests and kings. (Exod. 19:6; Isa. 61:6) Obviously, only the High Priest of the Most High would produce a generation of priests and kings through Israel.

nope, abram refers to the lord; which is melchizedek. he bows to the priest of god

Genesis 18:2
Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

then he says

Genesis 18:3
He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

 

[Ben Avraham]

nope, abram refers to the lord; which is melchizedek. he bows to the priest of god

Genesis 18:2
Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

then he says

Genesis 18:3
He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord, do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

Fool, do you believe that Abraham was a Prophet? If you don't, let me know and I'll give you a few evidential quotes for that matter. But if you do, good! Now, read Numbers 12:6. HaShem said in that text that if there was a prophet among the Israelites, HaShem would reveal Himself unto him or her only by means of dreams and visions. Under no other way. Today, we don't need a prophet because we have the Scriptures. So, we speak with HaShem by means of His own Word. So, the dialogue between Abraham and those three men he saw approaching his tent happened during a slumber aka a lucid dream. It could not have been personal; otherwise, it would contradict Numbers 12:6.

 

[Ben Avraham]

• There are two different hells in the Bible. The first is the grave and the second is the fire that will burn up those who do not repent and follow God's way. Jesus went to the grave. No one has yet been destroyed in the fire. That will happen after Jesus returns and judges everyone. No one will be tortured in an ever burning place of pain and suffering.

There is just one hell in the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach. The other kind, the hell-fire is according to the gospel of Paul aka the NT. Since Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian, his hell was the grave, wherefrom, no one will ever return if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; and Job 7:9. BTW, Psalm 49:12 in the JPS says that the grave is our eternal home. In fact, the only thing eternal about man.

 

[Fool]

Fool, do you believe that Abraham was a Prophet? If you don't, let me know and I'll give you a few evidential quotes for that matter. But if you do, good! Now, read Numbers 12:6. HaShem said in that text that if there was a prophet among the Israelites, HaShem would reveal Himself unto him or her only by means of dreams and visions. Under no other way. Today, we don't need a prophet because we have the Scriptures. So, we speak with HaShem by means of His own Word. So, the dialogue between Abraham and those three men he saw approaching his tent happened during a slumber aka a lucid dream. It could not have been personal; otherwise, it would contradict Numbers 12:6.

yes a prophet who bows to a watcher.

and yes I'm aware of spooky action at a distance. it's scientifically being studied in many institutions of higher learning.
and yes it a known phenomena in some systems; especially in the mystical east.

meditation being the better form of such.

And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.

 

[Ben Avraham]

yes a prophet who bows to a watcher and yes I'm aware of spooky action at a distance. it's scientifically being studied in many institutions of higher learning and yes it a known phenomena in some systems; especially in the mystical east meditation being the better form of such. And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.

You have to quote this text above for a more thoughtful reply.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

God is a just judge. People aren't and should not judge others. Hell is not a place but a state or condition.

 

[Fool]

You have to quote this text above for a more thoughtful reply.

then why do you have rabbis?


it sounds like a comparative thing given the fact that christians are expected to have visions and dreams too.

fyi, i'm not a christian, or a jew, but i'm very well versed in the Name; which was known to many cultures before judaism. God isn't exclusive Judaism, but is Omnipresent in all belief systems and all things, Amen-Ra, AUM, ..........

we are all little i ams in the Great I AM, or Infinite Is(plural) in the Infinite I. I've had both the dream and the vision

Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

swarm intelligence, green language, the language of the birds.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The star that they were following had led them to Bethlehem. Where Jesus was around the age of one year old. Herod never received info about, did the Magis ever found Jesus. And so He has told them to kill any young male that were under the age of two because from what the magis had estimated of the time that he was supposedly to be born. When they visited Herod, Jesus has already has been born. But they estimated the time frame of when the star had appeared in the sky. And so it depends on what country did the magis had came from. China is in the east from Israel, and so is India and which both of these countries were into astrology. And so it depends on how many days journey that it has taken them. Jesus probably were born months before they has decided to take the long journey on the backs on what type of animal. Elephants are used as transportation in these two countries. But then they could of had rode on the backs of horses and which they are a lot faster, carrying with them small bags of gifts.

harbiru, how do you know the *star* led them to Bethlehem ?
I may be missing something. Joseph and Mary were from: Nazareth.
They only went to visit Bethlehem to register Not move to Bethlehem.
They apparently were still in Bethlehem for the circumcision - Luke 2:21
and then they they went from Bethlehem to Jerusalem - Luke 2:22
Then Luke continues to inform us that after everything was taken care of, then they returned back home to Nazareth - Luke 2:39
So, where was the 'house' where the young child, Jesus, was found by the magi - Matthew 2:8-10 ?
Surely they did Not move to Bethlehem, so why think the magi found the house in Bethlehem ?

To me, there would have been No need to kill children around two (2) years of age if Jesus was only one year old.
That two-year time frame could have indicated much more than just ' days' of travel.
To me, also the magi's caravan could have included horses and elephants and to me, also: camels.
The caravan would have consisted of more than three persons carrying gold, etc. otherwise they could have easily been robbed, so the number of astrologers (magi) would have been an Unknown number. Just the number of gifts are known. Their gift of costly gold then was enough to make possible for Joseph, Mary and Jesus to flee to Egypt.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God is a just judge. People aren't and should not judge others. Hell is not a place but a state or condition.

True, I agree, we don't have to judge others (including imputing wrong or bad motives to anyone) because God's judgement is already recorded for us in Scripture.

If ' biblical hell ' is Not a place, then were did the dead Jesus go the day Jesus died except to grave. - Acts 2:27
To me, ' biblical hell ' (grave) comes to a final end when everyone in the Bible's hell are resurrected out of hell because the resurrected out-of-hell Jesus now has the keys to unlock biblical hell according to Revelation 1:18.
Then, emptied-out hell is cast into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell - Revelation 20:13-14

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There is just one hell in the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach. The other kind, the hell-fire is according to the gospel of Paul aka the NT. Since Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian, his hell was the grave, wherefrom, no one will ever return if you read II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20; Isaiah 26:14; and Job 7:9. BTW, Psalm 49:12 in the JPS says that the grave is our eternal home. In fact, the only thing eternal about man.

To me, Job 7:9-10 is talking about we can Not resurrect oneself, and at 2 Samuel 12:23
I notice after Psalms 49:12 continuing at Psalms 49:15 it says that God will redeem one's soul from the power of the grave. So, we can't resurrect oneself or another, so we need God to do that.
As animals perish (verse 12) we all die returning to the dust as father Adam did - Genesis 3:19
The Psalmist believes that from the lowest ' hell ' (grave) God would have mercy and deliver him from the grave.
- Psalms 86:13
To me, Isaiah 26:10-14 is addressing the wicked who will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Those Not wicked will awaken from death's sleep and sing - Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13
And as Isaiah mentioned at Isaiah 25:8 that death will be swallowed up.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

• There are two different hells in the Bible. The first is the grave and the second is the fire that will burn up those who do not repent and follow God's way. Jesus went to the grave. No one has yet been destroyed in the fire. That will happen after Jesus returns and judges everyone. No one will be tortured in an ever burning place of pain and suffering.

To me, according to Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16 it is the ' executional words from Jesus' mouth ' (Not fire) that will destroy the wicked forever - Psalms 92:7

To me, the choice given at 2 Peter 3:9 is Not fire, but to 'perish ' ( be destroyed ) Not any hellish fire.

To me, the fiery hell teaching is a religious-myth hell that is just taught as being Scripture but Not found in Scripture.
Scriptural hell comes to a final end according to Revelation 20:13-14 when after everyone in biblical hell (grave) is resurrected out of hell, then emptied-out hell is cast vacant into a symbolic ' second death ' for vacated hell.