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Do Jews say grace?
- Thread starter Kemosloby
- Start date
Both yes and no, in that they are different than
the Xian grace concept ,,
We say a blessing or short prayer before
each type of food or course of the meal depending on what it consists of ..
and a birkat ha-mazon, grace after meals.
the Xian grace concept ,,
We say a blessing or short prayer before
each type of food or course of the meal depending on what it consists of ..
and a birkat ha-mazon, grace after meals.
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
1. There are 6 possible blessings said before eating
2. Birkat Hamazon is said after at least eating anything that includes bread
3. This will confuse the Christian out of you but your Jesus is of no importance to Jewish customs and the Religion as a whole
2. Birkat Hamazon is said after at least eating anything that includes bread
3. This will confuse the Christian out of you but your Jesus is of no importance to Jewish customs and the Religion as a whole
That's interesting that grace is said before anything that includes bread. In Christianity Jesus is the bread, when Jesus said grace he broke the bread symbolizing his body being broken on the cross.
Tumah
Veteran Member
I think you mean after anything that includes bread. And that's just because she forgot the two other after-eating blessings. One for after non-bread grains (such as cake or pasta), wine, or the 7 species; the other for after anything else.
Blessings After Other Foods - Fruit, Cake, Beverages...
I think its funny how you linked that to Jesus. There's a blessing before every food we eat and a blessing after every food we eat. But you still managed to cherry-pick the specific blessing for bread as being related to Jesus.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
By his logic wineries must be among the most holy of places.
Tumah
Veteran Member
First you'd have to create a background and context to the wine, so that he can cherry-pick the parts that can be reinterpret as talking about Jesus. Then we'll be able to know for sure.
Sorry, that's just how Christian logic works.
Wine is the other thing Jesus represented, wine represents the blood. The symbolism from the beginning. Mechizedek brought out bread and wine to give to Abram before Abram was blessed and became Abraham.
So it is interesting the bread and wine have their own special blessings. Not to say cake isn't something to also be thankful for. What are the differences between each blessing?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
The saying of grace by christians has deminished year on year in recent times.
I can not remember seeing any one of any faith, saying grace in a restaurant.
I can not remember seeing any one of any faith, saying grace in a restaurant.
Not just his logic.
Tumah
Veteran Member
Non-bread grains, wine and the rest of the 7 species (grapes, figs, pomegranate, olive, dates) all have the same blessing. You just switch out some words in the middle to indicate "sustenance (non-bread grain)" "wine" or "fruit".
The blessings before eating are all the same format, just with a few words at the end indicating whether its bread, non-bread grain, wine, grows from a tree, grows from the ground, or anything else.
The blessing for after eating bread is a Biblical commandment derived from Deut.8:9-10. It has three major parts which fulfill the Biblical requirement and a fourth part that was required later by the Rabbis: acknowledging G-d is the Sustainer, thanking G-d for the land of Israel, asking G-d to rebuild Jerusalem and the last part is basically acknowledging G-d's favor to us.
The blessing for non-bread grain, wine, and the 7 species has the same ideas but is only required by Rabbinical Enactment. Its a much abridged version of the previous blessings.
The last one which is said on anything that doesn't fit into those categories is a short blessing (3 or 4 lines) acknowledging that G-d sustains life.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Kemosloby. In the OT, the animal blood wasn't symbolic. The pure animal was actually slain, the blood actually was offered as a forgives for their sins, and they ate of it in communion for what their lord has done for them.
You're saying jesus' sacrifice is symbolic. For it to be related to OT scripture, it needs to be literal sacrifice. Jesus would be slain by his people (as Israelite slain a pure animal), his blood actually used for the redemption of sins (as the blood is an offering [my words are lacking now] for god to forgive those who sinned against him), in order to for the Israelite (or Christian in this case) to be forgiven by god.
The nature of Jesus sacrifice has to be literal. So, christians actually eat of jesus flesh and eat of his body in order for (according to mainstream christianity) to be related to the OT sacrificial meal in any way at all.
That and grace in Christianity is before meals not after. Mainstream christianity, bread and wine is an actual sacrificial meal. It's not a symbolic meal. It's actual human sacrifice to which christians are redeemed.
Unless a Jew hits me up side my head, I'm sure human sacrifice and bread and wine actually being blood and body has nothing to do with Judaism whatsoever.
So (in my words), the grace before a meal is done with a different intent and meaning for christians than it would be for Jews and say Muslims.
Totally different religions.
Only the ones by biblical command are relevant. So just blessing before bread and wine are by biblical command?
Tumah
Veteran Member
Just bread.
I see it all the time, but I go to kosher restaurants where the clientele consist primarily of religious Jews.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
Only during the Eucharist. as it has a special significance., and was ordained by Jesus.
In the normal way no special grace is attached to any food or drink in the Christian tradition.
However some minorities do follow their own traditions.
Even formal Graces are not covered in the Scriptures or books like common prayer, their use seems to be a purely oral tradition, and follows the general concept of giving thanks for all his blessings.
Astounding how the Xians make pronouncements and at times judgements
on our laws, interpretations and traditions ...
Look some of us will have said perhaps 10
blessings by the time we leave for work each
morning ,, and one as we pass through the door ..
on our laws, interpretations and traditions ...
Look some of us will have said perhaps 10
blessings by the time we leave for work each
morning ,, and one as we pass through the door ..
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
That is quite interesting.. I am sure that the Christian tradition derives in some measure from the Jewish tradition. In the Didache the early Judeo- Christian communities followed much of the Jewish tradition. and they celebrated their Eucharist as a weekly meal.
In it the wine was blessed first, then the Bread which is the reverse of what we do today.
The Didache was used to teach new non Jewish (gentile) recruits the fundamentals of the new Christian faith, and the first part of it of it is based on the Jewish two ways of Life.
You will see that in the Eucharistic meal there is no mention of the body and blood of Jesus
( Translation by Aaron Milnavec)
9:1 (And) concerning the eucharist, Eucharistize thus:
9:2 First, concerning the cup:
We give you thanks, our Father,
for the holy vine of your servant David which you revealed to us through your servant Jesus. To you [is] the glory forever.
9:3 And concerning the broken [loaf]: We give you thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which you revealed to us through your servant Jesus. To you [is] the glory forever.
9:4Just as this broken [loaf] was scattered over the hills [as grain], and, having_been_gathered_together, became one; in -like - fashion., may your church be_gathered_together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom. Because yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ forever.
9:5(And) let no one eat or drink from your eucharist except those baptized in the name of [the] Lord, for the Lord has likewise said concerning this: "Do not give what is holy to the dogs."
I have highlighted 9:4 as it shows a very different meaning and symbolism to the broken bread, to that used to day, as being the body of Christ. I could easily see it as a variation on a previous Jewish symbolism.
Last edited:
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
That is quite interesting.. I am sure that the Christian tradition derives in some measure from the Jewish tradition. In the Didache the early Judeo- Christian communities followed much of the Jewish tradition. and they celebrated their Eucharist as a weekly meal.
In it the wine was blessed first, then the Bread which is the reverse of what we do today.
The Didache was used to teach new non Jewish recruits the fundamentals of the new Christian faith, and the first part of it of it is based on the Jewish two ways of Life.
You will see that in the Eucharistic meal there is no mention of the body and blood of Jesus
( Translation by Aaron Milnavec)
9:1 (And) concerning the eucharist, Eucharistize thus:
9:2 First, concerning the cup:
We give you thanks, our Father,
for the holy vine of your servant David which you revealed to us through your servant Jesus. To you [is] the glory forever.
9:3 And concerning the broken [loaf]: We give you thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which you revealed to us through your servant Jesus. To you [is] the glory forever.
9:4Just as this broken [loaf] was scattered over the hills [as grain], and, having_been_gathered_together, became one; in -like - fashion., may your church be_gathered_together from the ends of the earth into your kingdom. Because yours is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ forever.
9:5(And) let no one eat or drink from your eucharist except those baptized in the name of [the] Lord, for the Lord has likewise said concerning this: "Do not give what is holy to the dogs."
I have highlighted 9:4 as it shows a very different meaning and symbolism to the broken bread, to that used to day, as being the body of Christ. I could easily see it as a variation on a previous Jewish symbolism.
The Jewish symbolism is the Christian symbolism. Breaking the bread is the next step from the Jewish symbolism. The Jews were symbolically giving thanks for the bread from heaven. Jesus was the bread from heaven, then Jesus told them to break the bread. The bread from heaven broken on the cross. Any who believed Jesus would break the bread, not all did.
Catholic meaning is just plain wrong because they want to be in control of who gets the bread. The Eucharist mostly tries to recapture "the bread is for the children' because only Catholics can get that bread. I would vomit if I ate that bread.