Do you as a Muslim believe in women's equality?

[dawny0826]

They shouldn't
They should be treated fairly in accorcance with what they do.

Equal pay for equal work production. I think piece work was the most fair, but it was also the most abused.

You do realize that women often make less money for the same amount of work production as men?

Do you support equality in this regard?

 

[Estro Felino]

Oddly very few Muslims are Arab and the majority of Arabs that migrate to the USA are Christian

I think you will find that most American Muslims want the same rights the Jews have that being the right for disputed contracts between Muslim be settled under sharia by Muslim arbitrators. the same as Jews are permitted to use Judaic laws in the settlement of Civil disputes between Jews

and I find this medieval and backward. Whether it deals with Judaic or Sharia law. Juridic particularism is something medieval.

Modernity came when a law equal for everyone was created

 

[Estro Felino]

Oddly very few Muslims are Arab and the majority of Arabs that migrate to the USA are Christian

can you provide evidence for this claim?
besides I don't understand this deep and inextricable connection between language and religion.
In any American mosque you will see Arabic writings. This is not normal, because Islam is "supposed" to be an universal language.

the see of Catholicism is in Italy but in American, Australian cathedrals there is nothing written in Italian. I have a English Bible myself

 

[Woodrow LI]

You do realize that women often make less money for the same amount of work production as men?

Do you support equality in this regard?

I find it difficult to find sources that compare the salaries of Muslim men and Muslim women. In the more advanced nations it is rare for Muslim women to work. there is no incentive for a woman to work as a woman is not responsible for providing living expenses. In Islam all money a woman has, is to be used only as she desires.
I do believe that all people should receive equal pay for equal work and that salaries should be based upon productivity not gender.

 

[Woodrow LI]

and I find this medieval and backward. Whether it deals with Judaic or Sharia law. Juridic particularism is something medieval.

Modernity came when a law equal for everyone was created

Civil law is civil law. It is not criminal law, it is not laws that can provide for jail or any type of punishment. It deals with the dispensation of agreements between 2 people.
the state and local courts need not have any part in it except in cases where the parties have no common arbitrator.

Every contractual procedure allows for the use of mutual agreed upon arbitrators, except for Islamic contracts between consenting Muslim adults.
It is only when an arbitrator can not be agreed upon or there is disagreement with an arbitrators decision that there is any need for the state judicial system to become involved.

If a Muslim man and women are negotiating a Nikka why should a state judge have any say or involvement of what the agreed upon dower is?

If a Muslim allows another Muslim to borrow his car and the borrower damages the car and the lender wants compensation, why should the judicial system become involved in the amount of the compensation if they both agree to abide by the decision of an Islamic council

 

[dust1n]

Many of the Muslim nations either have or have had female presidents---Hmmm who was the last female president we had here in the USA

Huh, who?

 

[Woodrow LI]

can you provide evidence for this claim?
besides I don't understand this deep and inextricable connection between language and religion.
In any American mosque you will see Arabic writings. This is not normal, because Islam is "supposed" to be an universal language.

the see of Catholicism is in Italy but in American, Australian cathedrals there is nothing written in Italian. I have a English Bible myself

Religious background
The religious affiliations of Arab Americans

While the majority of the population of the Arab World is composed of people of the Muslim faith, most Arab Americans, in contrast, are Christian.[10]

According to the Arab American Institute, the breakdown of religious affiliation among persons originating from Arab countries is as follows:

63% Christian
35% Catholic (Roman Rite Catholics & Eastern Catholics — Maronites and Melkites)
18% Orthodox (Eastern Orthodox or Oriental Orthodox)
10% Protestant
24% Muslim
13% Other; No Affiliation[11][not in citation given]
Source Arab American - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Part of the preservation of the Qur'an is to avoid translations of it. One way to assure this is for all Muslims to Study the Qur'an in the original Arabic.

Arabs are forbidden make any forms of images. As a result decorations take the form of geometric patterns and calligraphy. Most Mosques, although it is the option of the builder of the mosque to decide on decorations select Arabic calligraphy.
All Mosques are privatly owned with the exception of some built by local Islamic organizations. But nearly all mosques in the USA were built by the Imam from his own funds. He has the right to build it as he desires.
When you pay for something and take resonsibility for all maintainence you usually have the right to make it as you personally want it.
There is no central organization that pays for Mosques and hire Imams. Most of the time they are completly the initiative of the Imam. we do not tithe. In most case the Imam is never paid and never compensated for the expense of building the Mosque.
If the guy paid for it, handles the expenses for it's' upkeep I think he has the right to make it as he chooses. If I do not like the looks of a Mosque I do not have to go in it. No Muslim is required to go into a Mosque, we can say our prayers where ever we happen to be. The only obligation is adult Muslim males are to pray together as a community once a week. that can be in my spare bedroom if I desire.

Huh, who?

 

[dawny0826]

I find it difficult to find sources that compare the salaries of Muslim men and Muslim women. In the more advanced nations it is rare for Muslim women to work. there is no incentive for a woman to work as a woman is not responsible for providing living expenses. In Islam all money a woman has, is to be used only as she desires.

Thanks for your honesty.

I can't help but to resent patriarchal constructs that confine women to specific gender roles. Though, I respect any woman who chooses such station for herself. I also understand that some nations/cultures are too primitive to yield the type of opportunity that I'm accustomed to in my country.

I do believe that all people should receive equal pay for equal work and that salaries should be based upon productivity not gender.

Thank you.

 

[MD]

Lol in Saudi women can't even drive, and it's the heart of the Islamic world. In Iran women are stoned for 'adultery'. In the rest of the Islamic world women hold a very low position. The kinda stuff that happens in Afghanistan and Iraq/Syria to women would give most Islamist defending liberals a nightmare. The only exception to this is Turkey, because of the huge secularizing movements of the 20th century. Women don't have true equality anywhere in the world, but in the Islamic world it's the lowest.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Huh, who?

can only think of one off hand
Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Sukarnoputri,] usually shortened to Megawati Sukarnoputri born 23 January 1947), generally known as Megawati, is an Indonesian politician who served as president of Indonesia from 23 July 2001 to 20 October 2004.
There have been others also
Now when did we ever have a female president in the USA

 

[Woodrow LI]

Lol in Saudi women can't even drive, and it's the heart of the Islamic world. In Iran women are stoned for 'adultery'. In the rest of the Islamic world women hold a very low position. The kinda stuff that happens in Afghanistan and Iraq/Syria to women would give most Islamist defending liberals a nightmare. The only exception to this is Turkey, because of the huge secularizing movements of the 20th century. Women don't have true equality anywhere in the world, but in the Islamic world it's the lowest.

Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Sukarnoputri,] usually shortened to Megawati Sukarnoputri born 23 January 1947), generally known as Megawati, is an Indonesian politician who served as president of Indonesia from 23 July 2001 to 20 October 2004.

Now when did we ever have a female president in the USA

 

[MD]

can only think of one off hand
Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Sukarnoputri,] usually shortened to Megawati Sukarnoputri born 23 January 1947), generally known as Megawati, is an Indonesian politician who served as president of Indonesia from 23 July 2001 to 20 October 2004.
There have been others also
Now when did we ever have a female president in the USA

There's Benazir as well, who basically built the Taliban during her reign. India had Indira Gandhi as well, and e plight of women in that country isn't very good either, so electing female rulers says little for how a society views women in general. That being said women in India have a much better situation than Pakistan.

 

[Woodrow LI]

There's Benazir as well, who basically built the Taliban during her reign. India had Indira Gandhi as well, and e plight of women in that country isn't very good either, so electing female rulers says little for how a society views women in general. That being said women in India have a much better situation than Pakistan.

Historically there have frequently been female rulers of Muslim Nations

Here is a link to a few

Heads of State | Muslim Women | WISE Muslim Women

 

[dust1n]

can only think of one off hand
Diah Permata Megawati Setiawati Sukarnoputri,] usually shortened to Megawati Sukarnoputri born 23 January 1947), generally known as Megawati, is an Indonesian politician who served as president of Indonesia from 23 July 2001 to 20 October 2004.
There have been others also
Now when did we ever have a female president in the USA

Thanks. Should have known that would easier to find.

Muslim female political leaders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Estro Felino]

Part of the preservation of the Qur'an is to avoid translations of it. One way to assure this is for all Muslims to Study the Qur'an in the original Arabic.
.

and do you really think that this concept implies a healthy relationship between faith and culture? It sounds like a distorted vision of languages, because any linguist (including me, I speak 4 languages) will tell you that any concept can be expressed in several languages.

Besides, when I read the English Bible, is practically identical to the Italian Bible. The concepts are so coincident, that leave me speechless. and normally I read it in English.

so I have to remark that translating a holy book is possible. Your assumptions are absurd, I am sorry. I suspect that this is an excuse to hide the real motive: that is, Arabs think their culture and language is superior to the other ones.

 

[Estro Felino]

If a Muslim man and women are negotiating a Nikka why should a state judge have any say or involvement of what the agreed upon dower is?

why should Muslim husbands have the right, by law, to get a dowry and the rest of the Americans shouldn't?
when I say "the law is supposed to be equal for everyone" , do you understand what I mean?

if juridic particularism is allowed, anyone can create a civil code and courts that apply it. For example, I can write a civil code and name it after me, and then I could ask the American Government to stipulate contracts according to this code, if the other party is consenting.
right?[

 

[Woodrow LI]

why should Muslim husbands have the right, by law, to get a dowry and the rest of the Americans shouldn't?
when I say "the law is supposed to be equal for everyone" , do you understand what I mean?

if juridic particularism is allowed, anyone can create a civil code and courts that apply it. For example, I can write a civil code and name it after me, and then I could ask the American Government to stipulate contracts according to this code, if the other party is consenting.
right?[

The dower is what the husband pays the wife. It is usually an amount paid over the life time of the Husband. In the event the marriage ends because of divorce or death the balance is due immeditly or as much as what the husband owns will cover. The purpose of this is to provide for the wife in the event the marriage ends.
The wife names the amount of the dower and the terms for it's payment.

What I and most other Muslims are arguing for when we say we want Sharia civil law recognized is not the implementation of anything new but the recognition of what is already allowed in US law for all groups except Muslims.

But it is getting to be a moot point as about 30 States have already decided to allow it. So far they have not collapsed and no one except Muslims have been affected. It should be of no concern to non-Muslims as it does not apply to them just as the
Judaic
Amish
Native American
Mennonite
Mormon
etc

Civil laws do not apply to Muslims

 

[Estro Felino]

But it is getting to be a moot point as about 30 States have already decided to allow it. So far they have not collapsed and no one except Muslims have been affected. It should be of no concern to non-Muslims as it does not apply to them just as the
Judaic
Amish
Native American
Mennonite
Mormon
etc

I am against juridic particularism in general. so I am against Judaic civil courts too.

I sincerely don't care about the US. Fortunately there are civilized and modern countries like France which assure one civil law for all citizens.

the law is the only thing that assures unity. Juridic particularism favors absence of state

 

[Woodrow LI]

and do you really think that this concept implies a healthy relationship between faith and culture? It sounds like a distorted vision of languages, because any linguist (including me, I speak 4 languages) will tell you that any concept can be expressed in several languages.

Besides, when I read the English Bible, is practically identical to the Italian Bible. The concepts are so coincident, that leave me speechless. and normally I read it in English.

so I have to remark that translating a holy book is possible. Your assumptions are absurd, I am sorry. I suspect that this is an excuse to hide the real motive: that is, Arabs think their culture and language is superior to the other ones.

I also read and write more than one language and I have found that the Semitic and Native American languages do not translate well into the Indo European languages.
I find Arabic very difficult to translate as it contains concepts that do not appear in English. Such as De'en, Dunya, Kafir, Masha Allah, Ramatullahi, Baraktuhu
One can not accurately translate Arabic it has to be interpreted which leaves much to the interpreters opinion and bias
If you compare the English OT with the Hebrew Tanakh you will find quite q few differences in understanding. Hebrew, and Aramaic like Arabic do not translate into Indo European Languages and have to be interpreted rather than translated.

 

[Estro Felino]

T

Civil laws do not apply to Muslims

you don't even consider the international law. Fortunately we Europeans have a supreme court which defends the human rights. A sentence (31 july 2001) states that

Like the Constitutional Court, the Court considers that sharia, which faithfully reflects the dogmas and divine rules laid down by religion, is stable and invariable. Principles such as pluralism in the political sphere or the constant evolution of public freedoms have no place in it. The Court notes that, when read together, the offending statements, which contain explicit references to the introduction of sharia, are difficult to reconcile with the fundamental principles of democracy, as conceived in the Convention taken as a whole. It is difficult to declare one’s respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverges from Convention values, particularly with regard to its criminal law and criminal procedure, its rules on the legal status of women and the way it intervenes in all spheres of private and public life in accordance with religious precepts. In addition, the statements concerning the desire to found a “just order” or the “order of justice” or “God’s order”, when read in their context,and even though they lend themselves to various interpretations, have as their common denominator the fact that they refer to religious or divine rules in order to define the political regime advocated by the speakers. They reveal ambiguity about those speakers’ attachment to any order not based on religious rules. In the Court’s view, a political party whose actions seem to be aimed at introducing sharia in a State party to the Convention can hardly be regarded as an association complying with the democratic ideal that underlies the whole of the Convention.

Both the criminal and the civil law are against human rights