Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?

[TagliatelliMonster]

The polyester in our shirts is a side effect of people making those shirts. God doesn't create without mechanism. God said let there be light.

Did he say "abracadabra" to create said light?

Is that his "mechanism"?

 

[Polymath257]

A car or a computer doesn't just exist. Their existence depends on design and purpose

Cars and humans are man-made.

Find an example of something NOT man made that you can *prove* was designed.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Transitional forms are not fully formed because they are intermediates.

You think you are being clever, but actually you're only exposing who ignorant on the theory you like to argue against.


As @Polymath257 said: ALL life is "fully formed".

An intermediate is not "half an X".
An intermediate is simply a species that has characteristics / traits of both its ancestral species as well as its subspecies.

Like Tiktaalik. It's basicly a fish with limbs and a neck.
But it's a "fully formed" species in its own right.

There's no such thing as "half a species" in evolution.
That's just creationist propaganda.


Learn the science before trying to argue against it.
Continuing this argument is an exercise in futility, because you are not arguing against evolution theory. You are instead then arguing against a misrepresentation thereof. Even if you win the argument, all you would have accomplished is debunking a false version of the model.

The actual model will be left untouched.

 

[Skywalker]

And those organs would be fully functional. They would just be intermediate in form and function between those of the ancestors and those of the progeny.

Nobody predicts the existence of a non-working half-heart. But, for example, the heart of many invertebrates is simply a widening of the aorta with some muscles to pump.

The heart couldn't function without all of its parts.

 

[Skywalker]

God cursed the ground and produced marijuana? Bible contemporary?, inspired by the holy spirit? consistent message?

Does Genesis 3:17 Really Say That God Cursed the Ground of the Entire Earth?

Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you shall eat the plants of the field; (Genesis 3:17-18)

By default strange plants would have to be from the Fall, because God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus said those who seek will find him. Jesus didn't have to say directly that he is God and to worship him because that would be vain.

Matthew 7:8

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

 

[Skywalker]

Singularity is a description. For example, the convergence of longitude lines at the north and south poles is a singularity in the latitude/longitude coordinate system.

If you are heating ice and measure the specific heat of the ice, it will have a singularity during the time the ice is actually melting: the temperature does not go up even though heat is added, so the ratio of heat to temperature change is undefined.

Why you think a conscious self-existing entity can actually exist is beyond me.

He would have more order and direction than an undefined singularity, which sounds vague.

 

[Skywalker]

These are silly questions, that have already been dealt with in this very thread.
A sense of right and wrong was naturally selected because it was adaptive, and right and wrong varies between cultures.
The 'creation all around us' is simple physics. It's the natural result of the physical laws and constants born of the inflation.

The creation declares the reality of physics and chemistry. They explain things better than goddidit. Comparing physics or chemistry to human ingenuity is a false equivalence. They're two completely different mechanisms.

Adultery isn't just wrong because its not adaptive, its disrespectful to the person and their spouse. Modesty is relative in certain cultures but there are absolutes.

Physics does not have creative powers like a builder. Chemistry is also impersonal.

 

[Skywalker]

What sacrifice?

Jesus being pierced for our transgressions.

 

[Polymath257]

The heart couldn't function without all of its parts.

And yet the hearts of many animals don't have all the 'parts' our hearts do. That shows that the parts are not all required. For example, many reptiles and amphibians only have three chambers to their hearts, which would be lethal to most mammals (bot not to their ancestors).

And yes, those hearts are 'fully formed and functional'.

 

[Valjean]

What are the other ways?

Stop asking question that you already know the answers to, that have been explained in this very thread.
Your repeated appeal to intentionality indicates you're not paying attention to alternative explanations.
If you're going to ignore our responses, why keep asking for explanations?

 

[Polymath257]

Adultery isn't just wrong because its not adaptive, its disrespectful to the person and their spouse. Modesty is relative in certain cultures but there are absolutes.

Unless, for example, it is considered a sign of respect.

Physics does not have creative powers like a builder. Chemistry is also impersonal.

Yes, physics does have 'creative powers'. Gravity, for example, is very good at forming spheres if the masses involved are large enough. Chemistry is very good at producing a wide range of structures from simpler pieces.

 

[Skywalker]

They said it anyway, to instill fear and conformity.

Where is the archaeological evidence of Sodom and Gomorrah, and, if there be archeological evidence, how does that support the fantastical tales generated about it?

The archaeological evidence of Sodom and Gommorah was supported by excavations. Sodom and Gomorrah Proved!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The moral laws in the Bible are givens about respecting oneself and others

Sure, sure....

Executing homosexuals, keeping slaves and beating them and such. Uhu.

I believe that in the end times, people will say what's wrong is right and what's right is wrong. Not lying, stealing, living together before marriage, are common sense moral rules that people know even without the Bible.

There's nothing immoral about living together before, or without, marriage.

I challenge you to explain how it is (without saying "cause my god says so").
I submit that you can't give me a reasoned argument for that.

As for lying for example, clearly that is contextual. It's absurdly easy to imagine a scenario where lying is the only moral way forward.

So any system that tries to dictate that lying is immoral, "full stop", is by definition immoral as it would inevitably result in immoral actions in those situations where lying would be the moral thing to do.

 

[Skywalker]

Unless, for example, it is considered a sign of respect.



Yes, physics does have 'creative powers'. Gravity, for example, is very good at forming spheres if the masses involved are large enough. Chemistry is very good at producing a wide range of structures from simpler pieces.

Adultery is never considered a sign of respect.

Gravity cannot form spheres that create plants or living organisms. Its not an example of creative powers, like God is.

 

[Skywalker]

Sure, sure....

Executing homosexuals, keeping slaves and beating them and such. Uhu.



There's nothing immoral about living together before, or without, marriage.

I challenge you to explain how it is (without saying "cause my god says so").
I submit that you can't give me a reasoned argument for that.

As for lying for example, clearly that is contextual. It's absurdly easy to imagine a scenario where lying is the only moral way forward.

So any system that tries to dictate that lying is immoral, "full stop", is by definition immoral as it would inevitably result in immoral actions in those situations where lying would be the moral thing to do.

What Christian nation executed homosexuals or kept slaves?

Living together before marriage takes away from the specialness of what it means to be married.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If there is no God, why is there a sense of right and wrong and a creation all around us?

1. calling it a "creation" doesn't make it a "creation"

2. what makes you think the universe or a sense of right and wrong can only come from a god?

3. argument from ignorance. for the sake of argument I'll just say "i don't know". This does not mean your god is responsible for it.

The creation declares the majesty of God

So you say / declare / assert. Care to support it with some rational justification / evidence?
If not, one can replace "god" with anything and it will have the same merrit.

A building reveals that there was a builder.

But the universe is not a building.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Living together before marriage takes away from the sacredness and meaning of marriage.

Only in context of your religious beliefs.
Not in context of anything real.

People who live together before marriage are also more likely to be divorced.

That is simply not true.

Lying and stealing are not respectful of oneself and others.

Depends.
When the Gestapo comes to your door asking you where the jews are hiding, I'ld say it would be very respectfull towards that jewish family if you would lie about where they are hiding, considering that telling the truth will only lead to them having to endure untold suffering and eventual death.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How do things of nature build themselves?

Physics, chemistry, biology.

Stars and planets form through gravity.
Complex molecules form through chemistry.
Tornado's form through complex interactions in the atmosphere.
Etc.

 

[Skywalker]

Sure, sure....

Executing homosexuals, keeping slaves and beating them and such. Uhu.



There's nothing immoral about living together before, or without, marriage.

I challenge you to explain how it is (without saying "cause my god says so").
I submit that you can't give me a reasoned argument for that.

As for lying for example, clearly that is contextual. It's absurdly easy to imagine a scenario where lying is the only moral way forward.

So any system that tries to dictate that lying is immoral, "full stop", is by definition immoral as it would inevitably result in immoral actions in those situations where lying would be the moral thing to do.

Lying and stealing are behaviors that involve taking things that do not belong to you. It's the same reason that lust and gossip are sins.