Do you forgive (the Abrahamic) God?

[dybmh]

I think you might be misunderstanding the underlying mechanisms behind Evolution. It is mutation and natural selection.

The organism won't develop something (like anger) simply because it would serve a purpose (to prepare the body for a physical enconter, for example), but rather what happens is that a mutation might entail a trait that proves beneficial to increase the survivability of an organism and the offspring have a certain likelihood of inhereting those traits.

Agreed! So, primate-A with anger-mutation has an advantage over primate-B lacking anger-mutation in a conflict over resources or procreation.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Because that's not what they are feeling?

That's what I'm saying. Being angry at God is focusing on the negative aspects of the world, being stuck in the mud, and thus (in your own words that you said you are not suggesting) "expend their entire life being angry and therefore not experiencing anything else." - That's how I see "being angry at God" or life, or fate.

 

[Koldo]

That's what I'm saying. Being angry at God is focusing on the negative aspects of the world, being stuck in the mud, and thus (in your own words that you said you are not suggesting) "expend their entire life being angry and therefore not experiencing anything else." - That's how I see "being angry at God" or life, or fate.

Aren't you perhaps exaggerating?
When someone says they are happy I don't take that to mean they will be happy forever, likewise when someone says they are angry I don't take that to mean they will be angry forever.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Aren't you perhaps exaggerating?
When someone says they are happy I don't take that to mean they will be happy forever, likewise when someone says they are angry I don't take that to mean they will be angry forever.

Angry at God and life sounds to me like a very negative thing, like not being able to trust life to be good.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, hypothetically, if an Abrahamic God is real, do you forgive Him?

Forgive Him for what?

 

[Koldo]

Angry at God and life sounds to me like a very negative thing, like not being able to trust life to be good.

But you can't trust life to be good. That would be naive. You can trust it to be good sometimes and bad sometimes.

 

[Trailblazer]

The answer to this question depends a lot on whether Jesus and God are the same person.

If Jesus was God what did God do that demands forgiveness?

 

[Trailblazer]

This attitude - calling evil and suffering "good" in a vain attempt to protect God's image - is one of the worst things about Abrahamic religion, IMO.

Since God does not cause evil and suffering there is no need to protect God's image.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't forgive god for being really illogical, in the following ways.

You don't have to forgive God for any of those illogical things since He did not/will not do them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If Jesus was God what did God do that demands forgiveness?

Unleashing every evil on humanity that it ever experienced, for starters.

Drowning humanity (if we're being Biblical literalists).

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Since God does not cause evil and suffering there is no need to protect God's image.

Please: enough with this nonsense.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's the only thing I can imagine when someone says they are mad at God. There's so much to be happy for also, so why not say "I love God"?

If they don't have much to be happy for then they might be mad at God and they would probably not love God if they thought it was God's fault.
If they don't have much to be happy for then they might not be mad at God if they did not blame God for their unhappiness.
In that case they might love God or not.

 

[Trailblazer]

Unleashing every evil on humanity that it ever experienced, for starters.

Can you give me some examples other than what is in the Old Testament, since I consider that anthropomorphic.

Drowning humanity (if we're being Biblical literalists).

Anyone who has done their research knows that never happened.

 

[Trailblazer]

Please: enough with this nonsense.

Please, enough with the nonsense that God causes evil and suffering.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Since God does not cause evil and suffering there is no need to protect God's image.

Death, evil, and suffering happen where God the Father is absent. God is responsible for his absence in this world. Is he not?

 

[Alien826]

You don't have to forgive God for any of those illogical things since He did not/will not do them.

This is a hypothetical response to a hypothetical situation. Surely you don't disagree that all, or at least many, of these things are part of Christian theology? For example, God did, supposedly, sacrifice his innocent son to be able to save us, not so?

 

[Trailblazer]

Death, evil, and suffering happen where God the Father is absent. God is responsible for his absence in this world. Is he not?

I do not buy your premise, that death, evil, and suffering happen because is absent, since that implies that if God were present none of those would exist.
I do not buy it because even if God was present, death, evil, and suffering would still exist since those are all part of being a human with free will living in a physical world.
I also do not buy it because God cannot be present in this world although His Spirit is present in this world.

 

[Alien826]

Reading through the responses, this occurs to me.

I read a lot about God being blamed for not making the world perfect, with no danger in it. I also read people saying God should have made our natures perfect, with no inclination to do bad things. Is that the real problem?

My answer is, yes there can be room for free will. Yes, the world should have enough uncomfortable things in it to allow us to experience emotions of all kinds and also to learn from our experiences. The perfect world would be dull, uncomfortable stuff adds spice.

But did it have to be quite so bad? Yes, let's experience pain, for a while, but not constantly. Let's have injuries and practical difficulties that get in the way of our desires, but not so bad as to destroy us physically or mentally. Yes, let's fight among ourselves occasionally, but not go to war or invent hydrogen bombs or land mines. Let's be born with differing abilities but not have babies born to a few months of pain followed by death. Let's be stupid, but not enough to endanger others. Let's be greedy up to a point, but not so some people are billionaires while others starve.

Then we might be able to say "The world's not so bad really and if a god created it we don't have to be angry at him".

 

[Trailblazer]

This is a hypothetical response to a hypothetical situation. Surely you don't disagree that all, or at least many, of these things are part of Christian theology? For example, God did, supposedly, sacrifice his innocent son to be able to save us, not so?

Those things you listed are part of Christian theology but they are not part of Baha'i theology. For example, according to Baha'i theology God did not sacrifice Jesus. rather, it was Jesus' idea to sacrifice Himself. To paraphrase Baha'u'llah, Jesus besought the one true God the honor of sacrificing himself as a ransom for the sins and iniquities of all the peoples of the earth.

Notably, Jesus never said anything about an original sin committed by Adam and Eve as the reason for his sacrifice. That is Christian theology.

 

[Trailblazer]

But did it have to be quite so bad?

It is notable that it is not that bad for everyone, only for some people. I know a lot of people for whom it is 'not that bad' but I am just not one of them. If anyone should be angry at God it should be me. I used to be angry at God but I finally got over it. It wasn't easy, I struggled for years to get to where I am today.