Do you KNOW God does not exist?

[Desert Snake]

Here is the problem. Just because the theist makes the claim God does exist doesn't mean He originally does. Rather, they (atheists) are proving that nothing existed in the first place and theists are making up something or someone who is not there. So it's not proving something exist wrong. It's saying, nothing was there in the first place.

Atheists aren't proving anything. That's where your argument is fails. Atheists are positing an assertion, that's all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your example shows my point. When you say you have no pencil, the assumption should not be that you have nothing. There is a seemingly endless among of possibilities for things you could have in your hand. Just no pencil.

The rest I agree with.

Em. You do get my point? There could be dust, a penny, any number of things in my hand. Nothing, Im refering to the absense of a particular something...in this case God. Rather than I guess a black hole?

 

[Desert Snake]

Em. You do get my point? There could be dust, a penny, any number of things in my hand. Nothing, Im refering to the absense of a particular something...in this case God. Rather than I guess a black hole?

your mixing up perspective/belief/knowledge with ''proof''.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Couldn't agree with you more. Thus, no one knows whether God does or does not exist. No matter whether they erroneously claim otherwise.

But its just a claim. We sre treating a claim as if it should have some evidence or saying it doesnt when its just words, an opinion, not basis on fact. So how can it exist (or become existent? Or not exist?)

 

[Desert Snake]

Em. You do get my point? There could be dust, a penny, any number of things in my hand. Nothing, Im refering to the absense of a particular something...in this case God. Rather than I guess a black hole?

prove to me that mars is dusty.
prove to me that the moon is rocky
prove to me that the earth goes around the sun. //hint, its an observational thing, you cant//
etc. you really cant prove much of anything

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Atheists aren't proving anything. That's where your argument is fails. Atheists are positing an assertion, that's all.

Theist are possing an assertion that God exist. Atheist are possing the opposite. You at least get my point?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

your mixing up perspective/belief/knowledge with ''proof''.

I mean knowledge. Its hard to argue proof of something i know doesnt exist. I can debate against the claims though.

 

[Desert Snake]

Theist are possing an assertion that God exist. Atheist are possing the opposite. You at least get my point?

Yes, but see, theism does not need atheism to affirm it's own knowledge.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is circular logic. You are assuming that God is merely a concept. Maybe our concept of what God is happens to be wrong.

How is it circular?

All I'm saying is that the term "god" is defined not only in terms of physical (and metaphysical/supernatural?) attributes, but also in terms of the relationship between the "god" and humanity. If there's no relationship, it's not a god.

Consider the term "king", which works in a similar way: if a person doesn't rule over anyone, he's not a king regardless of how "regal" he is. In a similar way, an entity/thing/whatever that is not worshipped is not a god.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, but see, theism does not need atheism to affirm it's own knowledge.

I know. I dont see the connection.

 

[Desert Snake]

I mean knowledge. Its hard to argue proof of something i know doesnt exist. I can debate against the claims though.

Well, that is really a belief. it's an unknown, to you. But, to each their own.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

prove to me that mars is dusty.
prove to me that the moon is rocky
prove to me that the earth goes around the sun. //hint, its an observational thing, you cant//
etc. you really cant prove much of anything

That doesnt make sense. " I " cant proove it. I know astronauts have experienced and prooved those claims; now they are fact. God, on the other hand, no one has proven. They ar claims.

 

[Desert Snake]

That doesnt make sense. " I " cant proove it. I know astronauts have experienced and prooved those claims; now they are fact. God, on the other hand, no one has proven. They ar claims.

But you don't seem to understand that claims cannot always be proven. Technically, they are beliefs/knowledge, though.

 

[`mud]

This whole thread is circular !
~
'mud

 

[`mud]

hey Disciple,
"Knowledge" isn't gnosis !
"Understanding" is !
~
'mud

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But you don't seem to understand that claims cannot always be proven. Technically, they are beliefs/knowledge, though.

True. In my OP I was wondering who believes they Know God-claim is true (He exists), those who believe he does compared ro those who know he does not and others who believe he does not exist. I find it internally illogical to debate a claim true or false unless there is logical evidence that both sides can use to support their argument. However, I like to learn how people think of it. I have my belief of "God" but I dont say God because of the connotations.

 

[outhouse]

You are assuming that God is merely a concept

There is no evidence he is outside a concept. That's makes it not an assumption.

 

[Thief]

Why would he want the possibility that some won't "gel"?

The events you go through cause you to be unique.
Your linear existence ensures it.

Of course, walking among angels will be a high standard.
and finding that high standard among people with little or no spiritual intent....
Many will fail.
Few find the way.

 

[Thief]

Me me me.

I can tell you with absolute certainty he does not exist. The fact they called the concept a "he" is a reflection of man made mythology.

It is a matter of historical education.



If we look back and look at the evolution of god in ancient people with little to no knowledge of nature, it is easy to see there has never been a divine hand in anything

We see earthquakes and lightning and volcanos all explained in mythology due to their ignorance of the natural world.

If we look at how much of the mythology in theology never happened and is just mythology, it leaves no room for deities in reality when we see mans hand prints ONLY on the definition.

You can't take God out of the picture...thumping a history book.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I can only plead absolute, entire, complete, unadulterated 100% ignorance on the issue.
As a matter of fact, I don't know. Neither do you.
Now onto something that matters.