Do you not ask yourself "what if I am wrong?"

[Draka]

This video pretty much nails it

[youtube]iClejS8vWjo[/youtube]
...And What If I'm Wrong? - YouTube

As a side note: I loved him as Schuyler on One Life to Live. Miss my soaps. :sad4:

 

[kylixguru]

Well, this is how I see it: if you are an atheist and you go to heaven, no one will blame you because the only thing u did was look for the truth. It is not logical to accept the existence of something when there's not a single proof, and we are not speaking of accepting the existence of some harmless and useless bacteria in the middle of the Atlantic. We are speaking about God, it really makes a difference in your life if you believe in him or not. At the end of the day, I think even if you are an atheist, good people will still go to Heaven, so anyway.

But if you are a believer, you will adhere to a dogma that could prevent u from having fun in your life, and you will hold illusions of an afterlife that may never come. You may even explode yourself thinking u are going heaven, like some kamikaze muslims did.

Very clearly presented and there isn't a flaw in the premise of your logic here.
I would only quibble with some aspects of what you said, but it would simply be a matter of semantics and I'm not so sure you would want to go there.
Essentially, the law of the harvest that you reap what you sow is applied irrespective of whether you were a professing believer or not.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

As a side note: I loved him as Schuyler on One Life to Live. Miss my soaps. :sad4:

I know, right? He's a cutie-pie.

And he gave a good argument in support of his nonbelief, IMO.

 

[9Westy9]

I know, right? He's a cutie-pie.

And he gave a good argument in support of his nonbelief, IMO.

He's ridiculously smart. Probably the best atheist on youtube. Shame that he rarely posts anymore

 

[Draka]

If I am wrong then I have a hopeless existence, I have nothing to live for and more importantly nothing to die for. If I am wrong then this life, this body this earthly presence is all there is and even If my goal is to make the best of it,what is the point really. As a Christian we are taught to not love the things in this life but to set our minds for heavenly things. If I am wrong woe is me, just woe is me.....

This is a concept I refuse to accept, I will never be comfortable and have peace, I will never be content and say " oh well worm food aint so bad" or the most common " who cares? I will be dead" . Really I understand how the mind cannot grasp the things unclear, and make our own God each one his own, but to accept and be content with no God is beyond my comprehension at all.

Now, why would your automatic assumption be that it is a hopeless existence and you have nothing to live for? Perhaps some of the things you do and hope for would be for naught, but that doesn't mean that what lies beyond, just because it isn't what you think it is, would be so bad.

My point was that your idea that if you are wrong that your mind would just cease and there would be nothing could be wrong as well. That there could indeed be something beyond death, that it could be something completely different that what you believe in. Who knows? Perhaps the Hindus have it right? Maybe the Native Americans were on to something? Druids? Wiccans? Taoists? Maybe you die, haunt around for a few decades, then hop into a newborn baby with absolutely no hint of any deity-like being in sight at all.

Point is, none of us really know for sure, so sweating over it now is a bit on the absurd side isn't it? I mean, we can only all do as best as we can and what we feel is the best way we can live our lives now right? Jumping through all kinds of hoops and living our lives according to all the "what ifs" is no way to live in the first place. Any deity that exists and really cared enough about us in the first place would know that much...now wouldn't it?

 

[Me Myself]

For instance If I say to an atheist, believe in God or go to hell, what does hell mean for him? He can't except the bibles hell, or the Koran's hell or any other religion that speaks of hell, perhaps in his mind he created his own hell and he is fine with that.
Hell for me is being eternally separated from God, the atheist already takes this position in life, so whereas the harm? whereas the fear of it? I have seen replies stating if God would send them to hell then he is evil anyway, what logic is this? Is it unjust that a guilty man be put in prison?As for me I am guilty, I am depraved not by nature but by my own choices, I have no one to blame and I will be judged accordingly.

Would it be just then that when you die you go to hell ETERNALLY because you did not believe in Quetzalcoatl if he was the true god?

After all, you just said you are completely guilty and Quetzalcoatl surely never heard you accepting him as his savior.

Hell would be perfectly fair then for you, right?

But for the atheist who can judge him? By what standards what laws is he found guilty or innocent? This is not about what I believe as that has no importance to anyone aside from me and my own God, this is about what you the atheist believe. I still find it hard to understand a man content without God.
Sorry If I haven't answered your questions to your liking, I am new to this forum style and It is still difficult to even quote properly.

But for the atheist who can judge him? By what standards what laws is he found guilty or innocent?

By whether or not he loved his brothers and sisters, what about that?

This is not about what I believe as that has no importance to anyone aside from me and my own God, this is about what you the atheist believe.

they don't believe in God. An atheist is not defined by what they believe but by what they don't.

Its like asking what do people who don't believe in unicorns believe in. Its a nonsensical question.

I still find it hard to understand a man content without God.

There is nothing special to understand. They just believe in one god less than you.

 

[Me Myself]

If I am wrong then I have a hopeless existence, I have nothing to live for and more importantly nothing to die for. If I am wrong then this life, this body this earthly presence is all there is and even If my goal is to make the best of it,what is the point really. As a Christian we are taught to not love the things in this life but to set our minds for heavenly things. If I am wrong woe is me, just woe is me.....

This is a concept I refuse to accept, I will never be comfortable and have peace, I will never be content and say " oh well worm food aint so bad" or the most common " who cares? I will be dead" . Really I understand how the mind cannot grasp the things unclear, and make our own God each one his own, but to accept and be content with no God is beyond my comprehension at all.

Maybe you just wont understand how it feels and that´s that.

About "hopeless", humans have hopes, whether atheists or not. Maybe they dont have a hope for an afterlife but they have hopes in general in their life.

Now, if you couldnt have peace being an atheist, I doubt that. You would eventually find peace. At least enough to live on and be able of joy happiness, hope, etc.

I would say the concept of hell is infinitely more unacceptable than just stopping to be. The idea that hell is fair sounds like the most utterly demonic, depraved, diabolic and repulsive idea any sentient being can hold. It sounds like the worst and most pathetic flaw of character someone can have.

There are no words for the self love or self esteem that a being can have when s/he says he deserves the worst and most intense possible suffering for an unlimited amount of time and that everyone else deserves the same.

I mean, no torturer in history has had and idea so depraved, because they are unable to emulate hell in either intensity or duration.

 

[Alceste]

I know, right? He's a cutie-pie.

And he gave a good argument in support of his nonbelief, IMO.

I thought so too. At first I was all "Oh, here we go, again with the logical contradiction between all-knowing, all-loving, all-benevolent and the concept of damnation - I think I'll just watch because he's pretty". Then I was all "Oh, this is really insightful and intelligent. AND he's pretty." :drool:

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I have been bouncing around the different threads and I see so much false assurance,but what if your wrong?

Then I say, prove me wrong.

 

[Me Myself]

This video pretty much nails it

[youtube]iClejS8vWjo[/youtube]
...And What If I'm Wrong? - YouTube

The summary of that is pretty much:

God will know I did what I did and why, so I definitely have nothing to fear because my reasons and intentions were good, and god will know that.

The problem when debating such perfectly sensible position to a hell-christian is that their image of god, while they describe it as loving fair or whatver, will not be one of such characteristics for all their children. he will have what THEY call love, but it simply does not translate to love.

About the non corrective nature of Hell, hell-christians or hell-muslims call it "justice" .

 

[waitasec]

It would be futile for me to explain consequences pertaining to my own religion to anyone who refutes it entirely right? What would eternally damned mean to you? What sense can it possibly make to those who simply Ignore its possibilities.

baseless nonsense. but if it makes you feel better...

For instance If I say to an atheist, believe in God or go to hell, what does hell mean for him? He can't except the bibles hell, or the Koran's hell or any other religion that speaks of hell, perhaps in his mind he created his own hell and he is fine with that.

hell came from the imagination of people...
there is no way to verify that this place actually exists...however i would contend that it's a state of mind

Hell for me is being eternally separated from God, the atheist already takes this position in life, so whereas the harm? whereas the fear of it? I have seen replies stating if God would send them to hell then he is evil anyway, what logic is this?

it's illogical to call god love while god sends people to hell
that makes sense to you..?
doesn't to me.

Is it unjust that a guilty man be put in prison?

guilty of unbelief?
your god seems really insecure too.

Are you without guilt really?

no i am guilty of disbelief...so what? what does that have to do with your god?

As for me I am guilty, I am depraved not by nature but by my own choices, I have no one to blame and I will be judged accordingly

.

i'm glad you're here to tell us these things

But for the atheist who can judge him?

people judge other people by what they do, it's how we've learned to govern ourselves, didn't you know that?

By what standards what laws is he found guilty or innocent?

really, you don't know? morals and ethics.

This is not about what I believe as that has no importance to anyone aside from me and my own God,

fine then what are you doing here exactly...explaining yourself to yourself?
is this your on line private journal?

this is about what you the atheist believe.

so what does that have to do with you?

I still find it hard to understand a man content without God.

which is why you believe

 

[Me Myself]

"by the same measure you judge, you willbe judged"

Does this mean that if atheists dont judge people by wheter they believe in a carpenter born of a virgin 2000 years ago or not then they will not be judged on that?

Or does it mean that if atheists that dont judge people who do bad things to deserve eternal punishments of infinite suffering then they wont go there for their misdeed either?

I dont wish hell on anyone, I d say most atheists wouldn't either.

Thus, they should have nothing to fear.

 

[Astravalon]

Hell for me is being eternally separated from God, the atheist already takes this position in life, so whereas the harm? whereas the fear of it?

I don't believe anyone can be separated from an Omnipresent deity.

I have seen replies stating if God would send them to hell then he is evil anyway, what logic is this? Is it unjust that a guilty man be put in prison?

It's unjust that a guilty man be infinitely tortured for finite wrongdoing.

Not only that, but the concept exalts the power of sin, because it makes sin seem so powerful that God needs eternity to deal with it. Not a very flattering image of God, there.

without fear of judgment or condemnation how do you hold yourself accountable? I am sure you don't lead a lawless life so what happens when you do something awful? How do you live with the guilt? Who forgives you? You live by the cultural laws or basic moral laws? Be kind to one another, do unto others as you would like done to you? This is all good things don't get me wrong, but what happens when you break a law you adhere to? Do you then forgive yourself seeing yourself as the only one your accountable to and move on?

From what I understand in the bible, the motivation for "behaving" is love, not fear. In fact, the bible says that perfect love casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. So the whole fear of judgment/accountability/punishment as a motivator for good conduct isn't even held up as an ideal in the bible.

Also, who's to say that God doesn't do for the nonbeliever that which He does for the believer? He has no favorites, according to your bible. This would explain (to me, anyway) why nonbelievers can be just as moral/ethical in their behavior as believers, because God is working through everyone and everything. They don't necessarily have to swear allegiance to Him first before He does whatever He does through them, and they don't even have to know/believe/think it's Him who is the inspiration behind their actions. God is quietly working behind the scenes regardless of who's on what team.

 

[9Westy9]

The problem when debating such perfectly sensible position to a hell-christian is that their image of god, while they describe it as loving fair or whatver, will not be one of such characteristics for all their children. he will have what THEY call love, but it simply does not translate to love.

They say God is omni benevolent yet they seem to contradict that in certain situations. For example "God loves everyone and wants them to go to heaven. Yet even though he knows you, and your intentions, perfectly; he's still going to send you to hell."

 

[Me Myself]

They say God is omni benevolent yet they seem to contradict that in certain situations. For example "God loves everyone and wants them to go to heaven. Yet even though he knows you, and your intentions, perfectly; he's still going to send you to hell."

As I said, that is obvious to see, yet the hell-bound dont see it.

any punishment that is not constructive has no reason of being in a loving relationship. About knowing you the best he can, I will say part of the argument could go towards determinism, mostly cause of the way he speaks that we are product of our experience and so are our thoughts. I wholy embrace determinism, but most hell-bound wont.

 

[ChristineES]

I believe that it's too easy to put our own limitations onto God. If we believe there's a God, then we should also believe that He (or She) is beyond our understanding and what we "see" of Him (or Her) is only a small part. Imagine being an ant. If you were an ant, how would you view a human? Could that ant even totally see a human in its true from. If one of us were that tiny, we wouldn't be able to comprehend a total normal-sized human- we could only comprehend a tiny part of that person. (I am not saying we are ants compared to God, I am just using an analogy).

 

[9Westy9]

As I said, that is obvious to see, yet the hell-bound dont see it.

any punishment that is not constructive has no reason of being in a loving relationship. About knowing you the best he can, I will say part of the argument could go towards determinism, mostly cause of the way he speaks that we are product of our experience and so are our thoughts. I wholy embrace determinism, but most hell-bound wont.

Which is ironic considering they, generally, believe in an omniscient being

 

[Lady B]

I believe that it's too easy to put our own limitations onto God. If we believe there's a God, then we should also believe that He (or She) is beyond our understanding and what we "see" of Him (or Her) is only a small part. Imagine being an ant. If you were an ant, how would you view a human? Could that ant even totally see a human in its true from. If one of us were that tiny, we wouldn't be able to comprehend a total normal-sized human- we could only comprehend a tiny part of that person. (I am not saying we are ants compared to God, I am just using an analogy).

Good analogy,but i can see this one being picked apart since the human will step on that ant and smush the guts all over the floor without remorse.

 

[Maya3]

Good analogy,but i can see this one being picked apart since the human will step on that ant and smush the guts all over the floor without remorse.

What? I certainly would not smash and ant without remorse.
I would not smash it at all if I can help it.


As for your other questions.

No I don't worry that I might be wrong. Was that question meant only for Atheists? Or for anyone?

Maya

 

[waitasec]

I believe that it's too easy to put our own limitations onto God. If we believe there's a God, then we should also believe that He (or She) is beyond our understanding and what we "see" of Him (or Her) is only a small part. Imagine being an ant. If you were an ant, how would you view a human? Could that ant even totally see a human in its true from. If one of us were that tiny, we wouldn't be able to comprehend a total normal-sized human- we could only comprehend a tiny part of that person. (I am not saying we are ants compared to God, I am just using an analogy).

now this is a good analogy