Do You Think Muslims Are Violent?

[jonathan180iq]

When I was in Jeddah, I was very impressed with the overall manner of Muslim society.
There are some very serious issues, socially, that need to be addressed before too much more time passes - but no, of course not all Muslims are violent. Most of them aren't.

What happens in the middle east in a weird combination of fundamentalist religious thought and gang culture, like you find in any impoverished inner-city anywhere else in the world. The problem is that the culture that accepts gang-style violence has become very complacent with these types of activities and that furthers to spread the occurrence of such events. It's going to take the radicalization of the non-violent against the violent to end it, I'm afraid.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I find interesting is how Muslims are supposed to be such a great danger to us, but those who are supposed to be protecting us (the police) have been a far greater danger to public safety than those bieeeg-scawy Muhswims.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Forgive me for the intrusion, but is that Mohammed by any chance a reference to Prophet Muhammad, or just to refer to a random Muslim?

Like all Muslims I can only speak for myself. there is no Muslim that represents all Muslims. We are very varied and come in a wide assortment of flavors, colors and cultures. The only way to view us is to see us individually. I do know violent Muslims exist but so far I have never personally met any. I consider myself and my wife to be very much pacifists. My level of extremism is concerned more about Native American rights especially for the Lakotah and Cheyenne, That I prefer to express verbally and educating people of reservation life.

That's basically the same for me, but I might add that not even any country does. If I may say something about myself; I'm a Saudi from the part that used to be called Hijaz before, which includes Makkah and Jeddah. I live in Makkah and work in Jeddah and my family from both my father's and mother's side are spread in the two cities.

Being who I am, people around the world probably think I'm a hermit with a very long beard, carrying a machine gun, wearing a very old turban, dirty, angry, etc., but the thing is, I interact with non Muslims almost daily, some of them are co-workers, and we have nothing but respect to each other. I also listen to music (mostly instrumentals) and wear western clothes when I want.

I want people from all religions get along and love each other.

And yeah, I wonder why the rest of the world say Muslims do this and that instead of at least referring to the cultures or ethnicity! There are more than 50 Muslim countries with each having their own culture(s), government and way(s) of thinking.

When I was in Jeddah, I was very impressed with the overall manner of Muslim society.
There are some very serious issues, socially, that need to be addressed before too much more time passes - but no, of course not all Muslims are violent. Most of them aren't.

Further to what I said above, I spend half my overall time in Jeddah. Yes, there are some issues we need resolved, but overall we live a normal life here and those issues are not as usual occurrences as people think they are. We are completely fine and happy with the kinda strict lives we have here and we know exactly how to live with it. It is called cultural differences. We do not expect all nations in the world to have the exact same cultures and ways of life. We only need to respect other cultures and not impose our own outside our boarders. Yet still there are some issues that even I and my fellow Saudis want resolved as soon as possible, mainly public services corruption.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

This is trueof all Muslimsin Western countriesactinginvariouswayfor their actionsintheir countries
They provide well for their religion only
And that is the problem
That your actions are out of the teachings of Islam, also a pious
You arepracticingtaqiyyain Western countries
And don't they do what doesn't your religion by
Therefore I say Muslim here find a peaceful quiet custodian
While in town, find a radically different
Therefore we discuss thought, not specific cases
Muslim in my him dead and did not rise up
But when you are in a certain number required to display the application your law
And the people that believe required to display your faith and proud your swords
You believe in ideas and acting acts disagree with your ideas
You are livinga case ofduplication
Two-sidedfigure
Destination I believe in Islam, thoughts
The second and not be able to apply these ideas
This pacifist stance and act like the depositary
Though some Westerners suffered one-third of our suffering
They said another deed for you
But they do not know

 

[Smart_Guy]

This is trueof all Muslimsin Western countriesactinginvariouswayfor their actionsintheir countries
They provide well for their religion only
And that is the problem
That your actions are out of the teachings of Islam, also a pious
You arepracticingtaqiyyain Western countries
And don't they do what doesn't your religion by
Therefore I say Muslim here find a peaceful quiet custodian
While in town, find a radically different
Therefore we discuss thought, not specific cases
Muslim in my him dead and did not rise up
But when you are in a certain number required to display the application your law
And the people that believe required to display your faith and proud your swords
You believe in ideas and acting acts disagree with your ideas
You are livinga case ofduplication
Two-sidedfigure
Destination I believe in Islam, thoughts
The second and not be able to apply these ideas
This pacifist stance and act like the depositary
Though some Westerners suffered one-third of our suffering
They said another deed for you
But they do not know

I think it's the weather. They say cold weather makes people optimistic and hot weather makes them angry!

Either that or it is the drivetrain. I always thought rear wheel drive is the overall best of all.

 

[Looncall]

I think it's the weather. They say cold weather makes people optimistic and hot weather makes them angry!

Either that or it is the drivetrain. I always thought rear wheel drive is the overall best of all.

About the weather: I have noticed that. I wonder if any studies have been done. It seems that the spiciness of food tends to follow a similar pattern.

I recall reading that, in some Mediterranean countries, there is a wind that blows that makes people tetchy, and there is the famous cabin fever in the dark six-month Arctic nights.

My favourite cabin fever poem is The Ballad of Pious Pete by Robert Service,

Ballads of a Cheechako / by Robert W. Service [electronic text]

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Reading over this thread, the amount of stupidity, ignorance, and hatred is staggering. Seriously, if Muslims are such a threat, why isn't more stuff happening? Why isn't a town with a small but very present Muslim community under attack? Why hasn't my school been blown up? Why does this one Muslim guy at school always walk around smiling like he's high on life if he's so violent? Why are there even any Muslims at all at the university level if they are all a bunch of "uneducated, illiterate, savages (and a good handful of them come from Middle Eastern countries)." And even though we have Christian extremist, corrupt police, drunk drivers, very easy access to guns, and most mass killings in America happening at school (at all levels through elementary to college), we are told we are supposed to be afraid of Muslims. It's kinda like how we were supposed to be afraid of the Russians and Communists when I was growing up.
Why did people only care after 9/11? Just a month or so before that, South Park aired an episode that fully portrait Muhammad, the prophet, and nobody cared. But even the guy who worked up the controversy over the Danish cartoonist has admitted he regrets causing the trouble he did, and he realizes he was wrong.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Reading over this thread, the amount of stupidity, ignorance, and hatred is staggering. Seriously, if Muslims are such a threat, why isn't more stuff happening? Why isn't a town with a small but very present Muslim community under attack? Why hasn't my school been blown up? Why does this one Muslim guy at school always walk around smiling like he's high on life if he's so violent? Why are there even any Muslims at all at the university level if they are all a bunch of "uneducated, illiterate, savages (and a good handful of them come from Middle Eastern countries)." And even though we have Christian extremist, corrupt police, drunk drivers, very easy access to guns, and most mass killings in America happening at school (at all levels through elementary to college), we are told we are supposed to be afraid of Muslims. It's kinda like how we were supposed to be afraid of the Russians and Communists when I was growing up.
Why did people only care after 9/11? Just a month or so before that, South Park aired an episode that fully portrait Muhammad, the prophet, and nobody cared. But even the guy who worked up the controversy over the Danish cartoonist has admitted he regrets causing the trouble he did, and he realizes he was wrong.

It's okay Ma'am, I kinda understand how they feel. I don't blame them for a number of reasons; Muslims do actually have the relatively highest percentage of religious violence and the media kinda prefers reporting scandals and tragedies more often. The middle east is the center of focus because it has relatively more wars and illiteracy than the rest of the world so it is normal for bad news to spread more thanks to the overtaking nature of the media mentioned above and the standing-out percentage of Islamist extremists.

I know the reason above are not good enough to call generalize Muslims as violent, but unfortunately those reason are the ones that are know to people around the world and they judge according to it without really experiencing the moderate Muslims countries instead. Let's take it easy on them.

Before I end this, I thank you for taking this rationally and humanly. You're a nice person

 

[Smart_Guy]

About the weather: I have noticed that. I wonder if any studies have been done. It seems that the spiciness of food tends to follow a similar pattern.

I recall reading that, in some Mediterranean countries, there is a wind that blows that makes people tetchy, and there is the famous cabin fever in the dark six-month Arctic nights.

My favourite cabin fever poem is The Ballad of Pious Pete by Robert Service,

Ballads of a Cheechako / by Robert W. Service [electronic text]

I was actually joking with Mahasn

But that you mentioned it, I do get grumpy in hot weather.

 

[Woodrow LI]

It's okay Ma'am, I kinda understand how they feel. I don't blame them for a number of reasons; Muslims do actually have the relatively highest percentage of religious violence and the media kinda prefers reporting scandals and tragedies more often. The middle east is the center of focus because it has relatively more wars and illiteracy than the rest of the world so it is normal for bad news to spread more thanks to the overtaking nature of the media mentioned above and the standing-out percentage of Islamist extremists.

I know the reason above are not good enough to call generalize Muslims as violent, but unfortunately those reason are the ones that are know to people around the world and they judge according to it without really experiencing the moderate Muslims countries instead. Let's take it easy on them.

Before I end this, I thank you for taking this rationally and humanly. You're a nice person

Peace Smart_Guy,

A very good and astute observation.

It also points out some common stereotypical views about Muslims. Very understandable the views exist. Many people do seem to equate Islam with Mideasterners. Understandable as the majority of people living in the Mideast are Muslim. However, the entire Mid east only has about 20% of the World's Muslims. Arab Muslims are a very small minority of the world's Muslims. The vast majority of Muslims are Asiatic. The second largest racial make-up fluctuates between European/American and African.

However the majority of violence by Muslims does occur in the Mideast or by people of Mideastern heritage. Much of it the result of petroleum development in the Mideast and the unfair distribution of wealth that resulted. (My opinion, not supported by verifiable studies)

All hell broke out after the discovery of oil in the Mideast and the formation of the "Big 7 Oil Companies". It is a very violent region but I see the cause as greed, not Islam.

 

[Woodrow LI]

I was actually joking with Mahasn

But that you mentioned it, I do get grumpy in hot weather.

Personal experience. After moving from Texas to the land of Ice and Snow (North Dakota) my views became much more passive. It is very hard to put up a physical fight in weather like this:

 

[icehorse]

Reading over this thread, the amount of stupidity, ignorance, and hatred is staggering. Seriously, if Muslims are such a threat, why isn't more stuff happening? Why isn't a town with a small but very present Muslim community under attack? Why hasn't my school been blown up? Why does this one Muslim guy at school always walk around smiling like he's high on life if he's so violent? Why are there even any Muslims at all at the university level if they are all a bunch of "uneducated, illiterate, savages (and a good handful of them come from Middle Eastern countries)." And even though we have Christian extremist, corrupt police, drunk drivers, very easy access to guns, and most mass killings in America happening at school (at all levels through elementary to college), we are told we are supposed to be afraid of Muslims. It's kinda like how we were supposed to be afraid of the Russians and Communists when I was growing up.
Why did people only care after 9/11? Just a month or so before that, South Park aired an episode that fully portrait Muhammad, the prophet, and nobody cared. But even the guy who worked up the controversy over the Danish cartoonist has admitted he regrets causing the trouble he did, and he realizes he was wrong.

Shadow Wolf,

How much stuff do you need to happen before you register concern? Are you okay with the living conditions of women living in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Are you ok with the OIC's relentless assaults on free speech in the UN? (It will be much harder to protest, once protest becomes illegal.)

Smart_Guy,

I hear the "culture" argument a lot. While I'm sure it has some merit, I ask a question over and over that goes unanswered:

Countries with high percentages of Muslims in their populations span the globe from West Africa to NE Africa to the ME to SW Asia, and all the way to Indonesia. In this span of countries, MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES are represented. But the recent worldwide, massive Pew poll indicates that - ACROSS THE GLOBE AND ACROSS THESE MANY CULTURES - Muslims consistently believe in Sharia. If Islam is not responsible for these widespread, Sharia-based beliefs, what is?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Personal experience. After moving from Texas to the land of Ice and Snow (North Dakota) my views became much more passive. It is very hard to put up a physical fight in weather like this:

Man, it's very hard to put up anything in such a weather

Shadow Wolf,

How much stuff do you need to happen before you register concern? Are you okay with the living conditions of women living in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Are you ok with the OIC's relentless assaults on free speech in the UN? (It will be much harder to protest, once protest becomes illegal.)

Smart_Guy,

I hear the "culture" argument a lot. While I'm sure it has some merit, I ask a question over and over that goes unanswered:

Countries with high percentages of Muslims in their populations span the globe from West Africa to NE Africa to the ME to SW Asia, and all the way to Indonesia. In this span of countries, MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES are represented. But the recent worldwide, massive Pew poll indicates that - ACROSS THE GLOBE AND ACROSS THESE MANY CULTURES - Muslims consistently believe in Sharia. If Islam is not responsible for these widespread, Sharia-based beliefs, what is?

Well, you also seem to talk about women's abuse in Pakistan and Afghanistan instead of generalizing in Muslim countries. I believe that has a significance.

Well, I don't think the Islamic law is what starts everything. Mainly in Indonesia Islam started because of the Muslims traders and their interactions with the locals. Indonesia became the biggest Muslims holding country in the world if I'm not mistaking. Islamic law came to form in Indonesia because the locals liked Islam and decided to adopt it. I'm not saying that worked perfectly as humans have the tendency to renegade and do other atrocities, but it was adopted with satisfaction from the locals and now they are, as far as I know, about 200 million Muslim.

Please note that I say "Islamic law" instead of "Sharia law". Sharia actually and Arabic word that means religious law and someone started this terminology for some reason. I wonder what harm would it do if they just called it "Islamic law"? Or perhaps they had a motive? Dunno. Don't wanna be unfair and jump to conclusions.

 

[Renji]

I don't think so, but there are certainly things being taught to them that leads a follower of their faith to be violent.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Shadow Wolf,

How much stuff do you need to happen before you register concern? Are you okay with the living conditions of women living in Pakistan and Afghanistan? Are you ok with the OIC's relentless assaults on free speech in the UN? (It will be much harder to protest, once protest becomes illegal.)

Smart_Guy,

I hear the "culture" argument a lot. While I'm sure it has some merit, I ask a question over and over that goes unanswered:

Countries with high percentages of Muslims in their populations span the globe from West Africa to NE Africa to the ME to SW Asia, and all the way to Indonesia. In this span of countries, MANY DIFFERENT CULTURES are represented. But the recent worldwide, massive Pew poll indicates that - ACROSS THE GLOBE AND ACROSS THESE MANY CULTURES - Muslims consistently believe in Sharia. If Islam is not responsible for these widespread, Sharia-based beliefs, what is?

I see that as an indication you believe Sharia is what the media calls sharia.

Sharia is a very complex legal system not much different from the USA legal system. To understand Sharia one must understand the Various disciplines of Islamic Jurisprudence.(Madhab) For a Sunni Nation it will be one of these four Madhabs Maliki, Shafi'i Hambali or Hanafi. For a short introduction to the Madhabs see HERE

I can not speak of the Shi'ite concept of Sharia as they do not follow the same Madhabs as the Sunni. However I do know Iran Sharia is based upon the Jafari Madhab. I know very little about it but here is a LINK The site is very biased and anti-Shi'ite. But it is about the best explanation of Jafari Sharia I can find

 

[icehorse]

Woodrow,

Fair enough - I was using Sharia - loosely - as a short-hand label for a collection of beliefs that often include Islam acting in realms of law. For example, apostasy and blasphemy. So for example, and to be more precise, a large percentage of Muslims, from all around the world, believe that apostasy and blasphemy are punishable offenses. I was encapsulating these examples under the loose umbrella term "Sharia". If there is a better label, I'm happy to use it.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Man, it's very hard to put up anything in such a weather



Well, you also seem to talk about women's abuse in Pakistan and Afghanistan instead of generalizing in Muslim countries. I believe that has a significance.

Well, I don't think the Islamic law is what starts everything. Mainly in Indonesia Islam started because of the Muslims traders and their interactions with the locals. Indonesia became the biggest Muslims holding country in the world if I'm not mistaking. Islamic law came to form in Indonesia because the locals liked Islam and decided to adopt it. I'm not saying that worked perfectly as humans have the tendency to renegade and do other atrocities, but it was adopted with satisfaction from the locals and now they are, as far as I know, about 200 million Muslim.

Please note that I say "Islamic law" instead of "Sharia law". Sharia actually and Arabic word that means religious law and someone started this terminology for some reason. I wonder what harm would it do if they just called it "Islamic law"? Or perhaps they had a motive? Dunno. Don't wanna be unfair and jump to conclusions.

You are correct about Indomesia

Good points. the media has a tendency to call local culture and mob rule as Sharia. Sharia is a quite complex legal system, not much different from US or British law. Many things that are called Sharia are actually prohibited by Sharia. In one of my above posts I gave a short explanation of Sharia. Most Islamic Nations only use the Sharia civil laws and use secular law for criminal Jurisprudence. The Sharia Civil laws are only mandatory for Muslims. In an Islamic Nation non-Muslims may use the sharia civil laws if they desire but typically they will have their own civil laws they are free to use for civil matters.

 

[icehorse]

Ok then, simple question:

Why do so many Muslims, from all around the world, believe that apostasy and blasphemy should be crimes?

 

[Smart_Guy]

I was encapsulating these examples under the loose umbrella term "Sharia". If there is a better label, I'm happy to use it.

Please forgive us, we aren't blaming you for anything. I personally thought it would be a good idea to clarify.

It is just a word, don't worry about it

Tho I suggest saying Islamic law or laws of Islam instead if you would like to use another label.

Please also note that what Muslim countries apply is not necessarily the real Islamic law. It is their interpretation to it. There is no country defines Islam perfectly.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Ok then, simple question:

Why do so many Muslims, from all around the world, believe that apostasy and blasphemy should be crimes?

I honestly don't know. But my best bet is because of the government and Islamic leaders. Muslims tend to ask questions and accept answers without questioning or discussing instead of looking for answers them selves first. Or maybe their lack of education? Don't really know.

Just my guess.