Do you trust God?

[Vinayaka]

Feed them, educate their kids, sounds like it would be easy for any religion to get people to believe. But the claim is that a whole village joined. I wonder if it is run by the Baha'i LSA? Or... because the leader of the village joined everybody joined.

Who knows? It's just a claim. Maybe the village had 6 people in it.

 

[Truthseeker]

Certainly not 2 million. It would be really difficult to tell, actually. In villages a person can declare himself to be almost any religion, suitable to the moment. When I travelled in India, taxi drivers, or tuktuk drivers would change their religion based on which religion their passenger was, hoping for a better tip, or a tip at all. Off in some remote village, it's really hard to say. For survival, or because of literacy or language issues, anything can be said. Lots of village Hindus, not knowing the difference, will say they are members of all religions. It's an easy answer, supposedly won't insult anyone.

I seriously doubt if there are more than 20 000 active Baha'is in India. They might be active on every 19th day to get something to eat, but then stay with Hinduism the other 18 days. Is that really an active Baha'i? If they're still practicing 'idol' worship, are they Baha'is? But you're free to differ. I am glad you didn't claim it was 2 million.

I've also looked at many large Indian cities on google map, and very few have Baha' Centers anywhere. Again, you're free to differ.

Personally I consider it sad that of 2,000,000 only 100,000 are considered active. Baha'is have learned from mass teaching efforts. We know now that we shouldn't mass teach beyond our resources to consolidate them. Most of the inactives are probably lost for good as far as being Baha'is. As to the methods of mass teaching, I know of a mass teaching in South Carolina in 1970 because I was there. Let's just say an inappropriate method was used. When you mass teach, you can't really stop and stay with the person and ascertain they know what they are doing.

 

[Truthseeker]

Do they really think Baha'u'llah is Kalki?

What I hear about being taught in India, the answer is yes. The answer is rather nuanced by one Baha'i scholar:

The Tenth Avatar

 

[Trailblazer]

To get the reward you've got to come up with your own interpretation.

I guess I will just have to miss out on the reward then...

Why would my interpretation be better than his? After all, he studies the Bible and the Baha'i Writings so he knows a helluva a lot more than me. I don't know jack squat.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, there is seven religions and seven Holy Books of those religions? And what might the Holy Books of Hinduism and Buddhism be?

I don't know. I think you should ask a Hindu and a Buddhist.

Two lambs? You know we're heading towards the wedding of the Lamb and God and the Lamb being the light in the Temple. So, can't wait to see how he interprets all of that.

I will let you know what the next chapters say as soon as I read them.
I will have to reread a lot of the book in order to get a good grasp on it, as it is way over my head.

 

[Vinayaka]

What I hear about being taught in India, the answer is yes. The answer is rather nuanced by one Baha'i scholar:

The Tenth Avatar

I don't believe in Kalki at all. It's a uniquely Vaishnava idea, and that in some 350 000 years.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, because God created a material world in which mayhem exists.

Very considerate of your all-loving Allah.

 

[Aupmanyav]

TruthSeeker quoted, "Scheduled castes can belong only to the Hindu or Sikh religions."
Can't fault it. One can either be a Hindu or Sikh scheduled caste or can belong to any other religion. That is what Indian Constitution says. The other religions say that they do not have castes. We have no problem if there are 100,000 Bahais. India is home to many religions.

But the claim is that a whole village joined. I wonder if it is run by the Baha'i, LSA? Or... because the leader of the village joined everybody joined.

In India even if a street dog dies, the whole village can congregate and discuss it.

 

[Trailblazer]

Very considerate of your all-loving Allah.

I don't like it any better than you do.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer quoted, "Scheduled castes can belong only to the Hindu or Sikh religions."
Can't fault it. One can either be a Hindu or Sikh scheduled caste or can belong to any other religion. That is what Indian Constitution says. The other religions say that they do not have castes.

I did not quote that, but thanks for the information.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It was Truthseeker, I have corrected the post.

 

[CG Didymus]

I don't believe in Kalki at all. It's a uniquely Vaishnava idea, and that in some 350 000 years.

And why would Baha'is believe in Krishna or Kalki? Even if they were from a Hindu sect that believed in them, everything they believed about them is then changed to what the Baha'i Faith teaches about them.

None of the other incarnations are important. Krishna, however, is someone they can mold into their progressive revelation. And Kalki is also easily made to be Baha'u'llah. The exact wording of the prophecies is not important when things have mystical, hidden, and/or metaphorical meanings. And, like you say, the differences between the religions from India are way different than the Abrahamic religions. But, then again, that's not important to the Baha'i Faith. All the previous religions have been replaced by the Baha'i Faith.

I'd imagine that your beliefs have led you and are leading you on a spiritual path. Is there a comparable path in the Baha'i Faith? The leaders in the Baha'i Faith are administrators. They get elected to an office.

 

[CG Didymus]

TruthSeeker quoted, "Scheduled castes can belong only to the Hindu or Sikh religions."
Can't fault it. One can either be a Hindu or Sikh scheduled caste or can belong to any other religion. That is what Indian Constitution says. The other religions say that they do not have castes. We have no problem if there are 100,000 Bahais. India is home to many religions.
In India even if a street dog dies, the whole village can congregate and discuss it.

Then in a village like that would electing nine people to be the Baha'i leaders in the community work? And, at some point, more and more of Baha'i beliefs and practices would have to be incorporated into their lives and less and less of their old ways... including some of their Hindu beliefs. So, I'm wondering can the Baha'i Faith work in a whole village, because it is supposed to be meant to govern whole cities and nations and the whole world.

 

[Truthseeker]

So, there is seven religions and seven Holy Books of those religions? And what might the Holy Books of Hinduism and Buddhism be?

There is no one book for Hindus, there are many books, the most significant for Baha'is is the Bhagavad Gita, because this is where Krishna discourses, and for us he is a genuine Prophet.

Same with Buddhists, there are many books. As a matter of fact there are so many Buddha could not have possibly said them all. They were recorded 4 or 5 centuries after He said what He said. Monks memorized them over the centuries, and I would suppose some were made up. However, the outlines of guidance were there, I believe.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't believe in Kalki at all. It's a uniquely Vaishnava idea, and that in some 350 000 years.

I hear the number of years vary. Of course you know Hindu better than I do. I don't believe in Kalki, either. It's not something that's baked in to being a Baha'i. I believe in the 10th avatar, and that is the return of Krishna. That is just my opinion, not an official Baha'i opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So, I'm wondering can the Baha'i Faith work in a whole village, because it is supposed to be meant to govern whole cities and nations and the whole world.

It will take a long time to come, if it will. Before that, education and progress will take over, and people will not be so easy to fool. Even those who were fooled will realize that they were fooled. India is progressing fast, it is already the third largest economy of the world..

GDP (2021) - IMF - Wikipedia.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I don't believe in Kalki, either. It's not something that's baked in to being a Baha'i. I believe in the 10th avatar, and that is the return of Krishna. That is just my opinion, not an official Baha'i opinion.

The question is whether it has already happened or will happen in some real distant future (428,899 CE). If you refuse to believe that Bahaollah was Kalki, then you are not a Bahai. Because in that case, Bahaollah will not be fulfilling a prophesy in Hinduism. That will also mean that he was a false prophet. Why are Bahais always so confused?

 

[CG Didymus]

The "book" represents the seven Holy Books of the seven Faiths. It is sealed with seven seals because every Holy Book was sealed.

There is one book with seven seals on it. Later those seven seals get opened. Riggs is claiming that there are seven Holy Books of seven Faiths.

So, there is seven religions and seven Holy Books of those religions? And what might the Holy Books of Hinduism and Buddhism be?

There are lots of Holy Books, or Scriptures, within Buddhism and Hinduism. I've never seen a place in the Baha'i writings that supports any of them being authoritative. And not even the Bible is said to be totally authoritative by Baha'is. So, I don't think there are seven Holy Books of seven Faiths.

I don't know. I think you should ask a Hindu and a Buddhist.

And the question has to be answered by the Baha'i Faith. Hindus and Buddhists already which books they consider Scriptures. And a different sect might have different Scriptures and might not accept the Scriptures of another sect. So, if there are some writings in Hinduism and Buddhism that came from the manifestation, or at least a book that has the genuine teachings of the manifestation, but was written by others, then where is that book? If it is nonexistent, then what is Riggs talking about? There are no "seven" Holy books of seven Faiths.

 

[CG Didymus]

There is no one book for Hindus, there are many books, the most significant for Baha'is is the Bhagavad Gita, because this is where Krishna discourses, and for us he is a genuine Prophet.

Same with Buddhists, there are many books. As a matter of fact there are so many Buddha could not have possibly said them all. They were recorded 4 or 5 centuries after He said what He said. Monks memorized them over the centuries, and I would suppose some were made up. However, the outlines of guidance were there, I believe.

I have no problems with the stories having been written by others several years or even centuries later. I don't need the stories to be historically accurate. I don't even need the characters to be real. If they are all just religious myth, that is fine with me. They meant something to the people in that culture.

It is the problem of Baha'is claiming that progressive revelation is true. That God sent different manifestations at different times to different places. But because the beliefs and messages are so different, I don't believe that the source of those messages was the same God. The same God that also gave the messages to the Israelites. That gave his messages through Jesus and Muhammad and through The Bab and Baha'u'llah. Oh, and the forgotten one, Zoroaster.

I'm fine with Hinduism and Buddhism to be different and separate from the Abrahamic religions. Reincarnation, Karma, Nirvana and all those other things they believe in is fine with me. I'll read them and study them and learn some things. But the Baha'i Faith has to eliminate certain beliefs, like incarnations and reincarnation and I'm sure many others to get Hinduism and Buddhism and the many other religions of India to fit into and conform with Baha'i beliefs.

So, do Baha'is believe in the unity in diversity of religions, or are they making all the other religions conform to what Baha'is say is real and what is The Truth? It is easy to say that the Baha'i Faith believes in Hinduism and Buddhism, but then say, except for this and this and this. And, from just with the Hindus here on this thread, we know that the Baha'is don't believe in the things they believe. Only Hindus that believe in God and believe in Krishna are the "true" Hindus? And, even with them, Baha'is have to cut out polytheism, incarnations and beliefs about reincarnation.

 

[CG Didymus]

I hear the number of years vary. Of course you know Hindu better than I do. I don't believe in Kalki, either. It's not something that's baked in to being a Baha'i. I believe in the 10th avatar, and that is the return of Krishna. That is just my opinion, not an official Baha'i opinion.

Even with the 10th Avatar. Do Baha'is accept the ones that came before Krishna? Then where does Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad and The Bab fit in? There's just too much juggling that has to be done to get things to work.

And Baha'is can't win. They can't ignore these prophecies and things. But they can't make them all fit either. And to force them to fit... makes the Baha'is look worse.