Do you trust God?

[KWED]

Ordinary people are not capable of doing what Baha'u'llah did or writing what Baha'u'llah wrote,

More question begging. Of course they are. What he wrote is nothing special or essentially different to other spiritual doctrines.

and that is a reason to believe He was who He claimed to be, a Messenger of God.

So, why do you believe that only someone communication with god could write what he wrote?
Give some examples.

There are more reasons to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a true religion from God, aside from what Baha'ullah did and wrote.

Oh, this is new! So far you have been telling us that his message is the evidence.
So, what are these other reasons?

 

[KWED]

There is no circular logic. You just do not understand what I meant. No matter. People rarely do.

If you keep telling different people something, and they all tell you it's nonsense, then perhaps the problem is with what you are saying rather than everyone else? Especially given that on close examination, what you are saying consists of a just a bunch of fallacies over some religious platitudes.

 

[KWED]

Is there any reason I should believe fictitious stories that people (not Messengers of God) wrote about what God did? You have to be kidding. I am a Baha'i, not a Christian, and I thank God for that every single minute of every single hour of every single day.

This is supposed to be satire, yes?

 

[KWED]

This has nothing to do with God.

You claim that nothing happens without god willing it.
Therefore god willed Covid on the world.
Why would he do that, knowing how many people it would kill and the massive disruption and suffering it would cause?
You also claim that gos is all good, yet willing a lethal pandemic on the world is not even a bit good.

It is clear that you are just parroting religious platitudes without actually considering their implications.

 

[Link]

Arguing endlessly same points is a sign no one cares for truth. Leaving it a point when points are repeated, shows, at least one person is not arguing for just the sake of it.

 

[KWED]

There is no absence of evidence, there is a plethora of evidence,

No there isn't, as demonstrated by your inability to present it.

and the reason I know is because God enabled me to recognize the evidence.

Oh **** me, this is priceless.
So only certain, special people are able to see that evidence. People who have been chosen by god. And you are one of them.
This is bordering on clinical delusion.

 

[KWED]

You are absolutely right, and I'm disappointed with myself for being drawn into it. I'm usually good at recognizing and dropping the conversation when it becomes apparent that the other person is just playing at auto-defense. I don't like using the ignore feature but perhaps I should do that for a while.

IOW, "I usually leg it when things get difficult".
Don't worry, you aren't the first and won't be the last.

 

[KWED]

Yes, I am saying it has nothing to do with God. Why would it?

Because, as you have repeatedly admitted, nothing happens that is not willed by god.
Therefore, everything that happens, happens because god made it happen.

Even when you reject your own claim (which you will no doubt do), you are still left with the problem of essentially a parent watching their children die and even though they can stop it they do nothing. Such inaction in saving another's life is a crime and was branded by the judge in a recent case as "morally repugnant".

So, either god causes the death directly - which is murder, or he stands by and watches - which is manslaughter by gross negligence.
Either way, such a god is morally bankrupt. Certainly not worthy of worship, or even respect. It is only worthy of contempt.

 

[KWED]

But I am not using religious texts to prove my religion.

So you admit that there is nothing in Bahaullah's writings that show he is a messenger of god.
So, on what do you base your claim?

 

[KWED]

We cannot first establish that there is a God and then see if that God has sent any Messengers because the only way we can establish that God exists is through the Messengers.

Yet more circular logic. How can the be messengers of god if there is no god?

So as you admit you cannot show your god exists, your position is untenable. Your belief is groundless.

 

[Aupmanyav]

We believe that all the previous religious dispensations have been abrogated so there is no reason we need to know anything those Messengers said.

That is very unfair. They talked about peace, love and brotherhood, and you reject them so cruelly. What else even Bahaollah talked about? Then what is the reason to consider them as manifestations of God. You reject Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Zoroaster, Krishna and Buddha. Why then, you have a nine-pointed star as a symbol. Is there anything that Bahais can explain sensibly?

 

[KWED]

I am talking about the Writings of Baha'u'llah, but I am not using those Writings to prove my religion is true.
I only believed the Writings were true after I came to believe that the religion is true.

But you said that part of what led you to believe the religion was true was the writings of Bahaullah.
You really are all over the place.

 

[KWED]

God allows it to happen but God does not cause it to happen. Humans cause it to happen, except for natural disasters which just happen in a physical world.

So not everything happens by the will of god - despite you previously claiming that it does.
It seems your beliefs change according to whatever criticism is levelled at it.
Reminds me of this...

 

[KWED]

if He said He was scarred I believe Him.

More credulous circular logic.
"I believe whatever Bahaullah said because he is a messenger of god, and I know this because he said he is, and I trust him because he is a messenger of god..."

 

[KWED]

Some natural disasters such as earthquakes can be considered God's doing,

So you admit that god does kill people.

but weather-related natural disasters are partly God's doing and partly man's doing because humans engage in activities that affect climate change thereby causing natural disasters.

So all weather-related natural disasters before the industrial revolution were all god's doing. So more death and suffering caused by god.

And you still believe he is "all good"?
Perhaps "good" has a different meaning for god. Maybe he likes to see people suffering. He sees that as "good".

 

[KWED]

I don't know why, you will have to ask God, if you can reach Him on your cell.

Oh no, you don't get out of it that easily!
You claim that "god is all good".
Now you admit that he causes millions of unnecessary deaths and untold suffering, but you can't explain it.
So presumably you no longer claim that god is "all good"?

 

[KWED]

Yes, because God created a material world in which mayhem exists.

Why did he create all that mayhem when he didn't need to.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why is god not subject to his own moral framework?
(I know he isn't, I mean all the killing and suffering and evil he inflicts on the world. He really seems like a sociopath)

And some people get that impression from reading the Bible stories.

Please show me where God ever inflicted any killing and suffering and evil on the world.

You quote the Bible constantly, but you never came across this stuff...

Not that you believe the Bible, but the stories in the Bible have God punishing and killing his own people... Has Elijah killing the prophets of another religion, because they believe is different, therefore, false God. God sent bears to maul some kids that teased Elisha. God destroyed Nineveh and Sodom and Gomorrah. He had his people kill all the men, women and children in Jericho. God sent 10 plaques to the Egyptians.

Is there any reason I should believe fictitious stories that people (not Messengers of God) wrote about what God did? You have to be kidding. I am a Baha'i, not a Christian, and I thank God for that every single minute of every single hour of every single day.

So, you ask, where has God inflicted pain and suffering? And I say, "In the Bible". Your response... Why should I believe those fictious stories?

I give you evidence, but you don't accept that evidence. Lots of us don't believe those stories. But, when a Baha'i doesn't, it kind of looks like Baha'is really don't believe in the other religions and their Scriptures. So much for your progressive revelation. It's more like there has been a progressive bunch of garbage that religions have taught until now. The Baha'i Faith is dumping all that garbage. What we say is the only truth. That other stuff is fairytales.

And how many times have I said that the Bible could very well be myth and legends. And when I do Baha'is come back and call it "God's word"? And you are just as bad when you quote it as if what it says is true.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is very unfair. They talked about peace, love and brotherhood, and you reject them so cruelly. What else even Bahaollah talked about? Then what is the reason to consider them as manifestations of God. You reject Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammad, Zoroaster, Krishna and Buddha. Why then, you have a nine-pointed star as a symbol. Is there anything that Bahais can explain sensibly?

All it means is that Baha'is don't know all there is to know about some of the past religions. And, with some of them, some Baha'is know near nothing. And an easy way out of learning anything about the other religions is to say they have been "abrogated". Which means, not one of the older religions should be believed and practiced anymore. They have all been replaced by the Baha'i Faith, did ye but know.

Right there destroys any meaningful dialogue between Baha'is and people of other religions. They don't have to know or care about what you believe, other than it's no longer important. Doesn't that just get you so excited to learn more of this great new religion that has come to bring peace and unite all people and all religions? Or, the way the Baha'i Faith is presented, by some Baha'is, causes even more divisions between people.

 

[CG Didymus]

Why not with Hinduism and Buddhism? Because it is not in the Baha'i Writings so we have no authoritative answer. All we would have is a personal opinion which would be no more accurate than your personal opinion.

Then is Riggs just giving his personal opinion?

You are free to believe whatever you want. I won't bother posting any more from his book.

Do you really investigate truth for yourself? Read Revelation and tell me what your personal opinion is. Riggs throws in the zodiac? Where does he get that from?

Who is the "Lamb"? I think, for the Baha'is to be right, it has to be Baha'u'llah. Take a look... see if you can make a connection.

Why not with Hinduism and Buddhism? Riggs puts it out there that the seven seals on this book are the Holy Books of the seven religions. But obviously, there is no such thing. Riggs is making it up.

There is not any authoritative answer for two of the major religions of the world?