Do you understand the New Testament

[free spirit]

Wow you really didnt see what i was talking about. Young girls tend to sexually active/immoral to try to find a mate, not putting God or the study of His Word first

God is not that hard on people, you do not consider that not everyone can read. "Be Holy for I am Holy" we need nothing else let your holy conscience guide you.

 

[free spirit]

Yes i just read your thread and yes i agree with you on the corruption of scriptures and at least God has given you the gift to recognise this. For many cant "see" this yet.

But there is still some more understanding you need like your example of temptation. God does use evil for the purpose of good, but to stick with what you see as maybe a contradiction here, this is what a friend showed me on this very subject



Heres something you may find interesting on spurious passages in the NT.spurious Text Frames

Yes I have visited "bibletoday" and if that is what you believe, you are full of the written word, but you have missed the living word entirely. Please proof me wrong by answering for me the question that pilate put to Jesus "WHAT IS TRUTH" for if you have Jesus within you will certainly know.

 

[emiliano]

I agree. Volition is much better word than free will. heres the definition of volition

noun 1.the act of willing, choosing, or resolving; exercise of willing: She left of her own volition. 2.a choice or decision made by the will.3.the power of willing; will.

We have a will no doubt, but its not free from outside (or subconscience) influence. Now i hope someone wont say we have free volition

I am glad that we got that one out of the way, the problems with these things is that Free Will or Volition are not found anywhere in the scriptures, so we can move to the free thing, what this tries to address is the fact that God does not interfere with humanity’s Volitions even when we are about to choose what is evil (harmful) and in that sense it is free from God influence. Why do you think that this is so? And why does God punish us for our wrong choices? We can’t blame Satan for that (he is the wrong outside influence) because we are equipped with all that is necessary to rejected reject him, we have been set free by this gift that has been so badly termed and defined, so whether we call it will or conscience it free from or can be free from outside influences and we have the example of our Lord, we can say “It is written” or as the Apostle James put it:

Jam 4:7
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. ​

Do you see it, submit (surrender) your will/volition to God’s will and you will overcome the outside influence; you will be in God presence:

1Pe 5:8
Be sober, be vigilant; because [fn] your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
1Pe 5:9
Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. ​

If you are not willing to use the gift to reject outside influences you are at risk.

Psa 91:1
He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. ​

 

[emiliano]

We have a will no doubt, but its not free from outside (or subconscience) influence.

But the sub-conscience is internal (it is inside) the influences to do good or evil is internal.

Rom 7:23
but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
​

 

[AK4]

As pastor of a congregation, I make it my business to know everything that goes on with regard to the business of the congregation. but I don't manage every detail.

Oh no. Youre a pastor and you say the stuff you say on here?! Oh poor lost sheep. Maybe you should give a sermon to your congregation on what God meant and just who He was addressing when He says "Come out of her my people".

Oh sheeple:thud:

 

[AK4]

God is not that hard on people, you do not consider that not everyone can read. "Be Holy for I am Holy" we need nothing else let your holy conscience guide you.

Youre right, He's not that hard on people once He gives them the spirit to be able to follow His commands. But before that its not easy because of the pulls of the flesh and the carnal mind..

Think on this one example since you believe His ways are not that hard:

Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one (this is talking about those in the christain faith right? Not to atheists and muslims and jews) that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (remember "christains are the ones who call Jesus Lord) have we not prophesied (preached)in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? ( what other faith does it this stuff in His name? None) 23 And then will I profess unto them (these so-called christians), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[AK4]

Yes I have visited "bibletoday" and if that is what you believe, you are full of the written word, but you have missed the living word entirely. Please proof me wrong by answering for me the question that pilate put to Jesus "WHAT IS TRUTH" for if you have Jesus within you will certainly know.

Thats an easy one. Jesus is the truth, the light, the way, the door etc etc. What exactly am i trying to prove you wrong on?

 

[AK4]

IGod does not interfere with humanity’s Volitions even when we are about to choose what is evil (harmful) and in that sense it is free from God influence

Ahh but God does. And it is littered throughout the bible with examples. Pharoah, Peter and the apostles saying they wouldnt deny Christ (remember their volition was this but God, who is in control of all circumstance made them against their own will/volition do this), Saul volition/will was to go and persecute the church and i can think of the persons name right now but the person who was to unblind Saul didnt want to go to him but Jesus made Him go and do it anyway.

And the list goes on and on. Remember, the spirit leads you it doesnt follow you.

 

[free spirit]

Youre right, He's not that hard on people once He gives them the spirit to be able to follow His commands. But before that its not easy because of the pulls of the flesh and the carnal mind..

Think on this one example since you believe His ways are not that hard:

Matthew 7:21-23 21 Not every one (this is talking about those in the christain faith right? Not to atheists and muslims and jews) that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, (remember "christains are the ones who call Jesus Lord) have we not prophesied (preached)in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? ( what other faith does it this stuff in His name? None) 23 And then will I profess unto them (these so-called christians), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

You do not understand do you? Let me draw a picture for you; we have Cain and Abel both worshiped God, one was accepted, one was rejected, Habraham had two sons, one was accepted, one was rejected, Issac had two sons, one was rejected one was accepted. so do you get the picture, in this world there are two kind of religious people the one that worship in the spirit and the one that worship in the flesh, all religions have this two tipes of believers.
Paul was a believer in God, and he was a violent man, after his conversion he became a gentle and loving man, you see the difference. in the first years of Christianity there were Jews that believed in the spirit those were converted to Christianity the rest were rejected and they persecuted those who had the spirit. Today it is just the same there are Christians and Christians, like those who have the spirit of Christ and those who have not. Those who have the spirit of Christ live life by the spirit of Christ and they are FREE, those who do not have the spirit of Christ live by the doctrines of their church, and they do not understand what is like to live by the spirit, they say things like, yes i have the spirit but we still have rules to obey. If you think like that you do not have the Spirit of Christ.
I have not made up my mind to which one you belong, there is a possibility that you are still fluid.

 

[sojourner]

Oh no. Youre a pastor and you say the stuff you say on here?! Oh poor lost sheep. Maybe you should give a sermon to your congregation on what God meant and just who He was addressing when He says "Come out of her my people".

Oh sheeple:thud:

Happy is the clergyman who does not have this sort of judgment and "personal help" in his congregation. For it is by the showing of these "kindnesses, that he has to be put on antidepressents and blood-pressure meds, and winds up in the hospital.
Thank you for not coming to my church. :shout

 

[sojourner]

You do not understand do you? Let me draw a picture for you; we have Cain and Abel both worshiped God, one was accepted, one was rejected, Habraham had two sons, one was accepted, one was rejected, Issac had two sons, one was rejected one was accepted. so do you get the picture, in this world there are two kind of religious people the one that worship in the spirit and the one that worship in the flesh, all religions have this two tipes of believers.

These are poor examples of what you're trying to prove. These have to do with primogeniture. Notice that, in all of these cases, the elder son (who would normally inherit) is cast aside, and the younger son inherits. This shows, not "two kinds of religious people," but shows, rather, how God's salvation works. God is particular to the poor, the outcast, the downtrodden. God saves the remnant. These Biblical characters are all types of Israel, who is a "holy remnant."

This might have more in common with OT passages, like the Song of Moses, or NT passages, such as the magnificat, than it does with, for example, the "golden calf" pericope, or Luke's "brood of vipers" passage.

 

[AK4]

You do not understand do you? Let me draw a picture for you; we have Cain and Abel both worshiped God, one was accepted, one was rejected, Habraham had two sons, one was accepted, one was rejected, Issac had two sons, one was rejected one was accepted. so do you get the picture, in this world there are two kind of religious people the one that worship in the spirit and the one that worship in the flesh, all religions have this two tipes of believers.
Paul was a believer in God, and he was a violent man, after his conversion he became a gentle and loving man, you see the difference. in the first years of Christianity there were Jews that believed in the spirit those were converted to Christianity the rest were rejected and they persecuted those who had the spirit. Today it is just the same there are Christians and Christians, like those who have the spirit of Christ and those who have not. Those who have the spirit of Christ live life by the spirit of Christ and they are FREE, those who do not have the spirit of Christ live by the doctrines of their church, and they do not understand what is like to live by the spirit, they say things like, yes i have the spirit but we still have rules to obey. If you think like that you do not have the Spirit of Christ.
I have not made up my mind to which one you belong, there is a possibility that you are still fluid.

I follow no denomination and none of the doctrines taught by the churches or man--for they contain a little truth in them but ultimately are false when you hold them to the fire (The Word of God). the physical rituals, tithing, free will, faith only, man having the ability to come to Christ by their own power, the trinity, once saved always saved, which baptism is correct, etc etc. You can take almost all their doctrines of men show how they contradict the Word. I worship in spirit. I have (to at least most of what i know) followed the command to "Come out her my people". I have come out of babylon. I "see" Jesus in all of the scriptures. I "see" me also in the scriptures. Do you "see" Jesus as the eonion God? Hes not the everlasting God. Do you know the difference there? Do you know the key words in these bible translations that have been mistranslated, omitted, inserted? Do you know all parables? Cus if you know one you can know them all. Do you know what the parables are about?

Im not saying i know all for that would be foolish. What i do know is that if mainstream christainity teaches it, its probably mostly false when you hold it to the Fire. Heres a simple simple simple one. Everyone parrots the saying "God dont like ugly". Is this true? The scriptures say different.

Anyway im just rambling.

and they do not understand what is like to live by the spirit, they say things like, yes i have the spirit but we still have rules to obey. If you think like that you do not have the Spirit of Christ.

Just like what you are parrotting here. We dont have rules to obey? Do you really believe this? That by definition is lawlessness. Please rethink on this and study the scriptures more because i can show you so much on this "lawlessness" doctrine taught by mainstream christainity that wont survive the Fire.

Edit---also your example sounds like those who say all religions lead to God and i know you dont believe that do you?

 

[sojourner]

Anyway im just rambling.

Finally, a statement that makes theological sense.

 

[AK4]

Finally, a statement that makes theological sense.

Exactly!

1Co 2:14 - But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[sojourner]

You can take almost all their doctrines of men show how they contradict the Word.

You can do that with anything, so long as you're proof-texting. That doesn't make the contradiction a correct one.
BTW: All doctrine is "man-made." So is the Bible.

I worship in spirit.

We all do, since worship, by definition is a spiritual endeavor.

Do you know the key words in these bible translations that have been mistranslated, omitted, inserted?

Why does it matter? The essence of the meaning is still there.

Do you know what the parables are about?

It depends greatly on the gospel writer's intention for including them.

What i do know is that if mainstream christainity teaches it, its probably mostly false when you hold it to the Fire.

The "fire" is a product of "mainstream Xy."

Everyone parrots the saying "God dont like ugly". Is this true? The scriptures say different.

I've never heard a Xian repeat that phrase. In any case, the Church doesn't teach that precept. the Church teaches what is Biblically sound: Release of captives, raising up of the downtrodden, proclamation of the year of the Lord's favor.

 

[AK4]

You can do that with anything, so long as you're proof-texting. That doesn't make the contradiction a correct one.
BTW: All doctrine is "man-made." So is the Bible.

Gee, i guess youre right. So when i take something like "God is love" and i try to "prooftext" this all over the bible i am wrong because that should only stay in the context of 1 John.

Oh brother:faint:

We all do, since worship, by definition is a spiritual endeavor.

So physically eating a wafer and drinking wine is worshipping spiritually. Heck lets go back animal sacrificing too

Why does it matter? The essence of the meaning is still there.

Oh it matters alot and if you cant see this then you are truly "blind". How do you think we got doctrines like hell, immortal soul, everlasting. And your a pastor huh?:cover:

Oh and let me add, you show that the parables of the treasure hidden in the field and the pearl of great price mean pretty much nothing to you. Do you understand those parables? Do you know what the "essence of the meaning" is in them?

It depends greatly on the gospel writer's intention for including them.

Oh it was the gospel writers intentions for what they put in thier books and nothing to do with what God wanted known. Gosh what was i thinking.

The "fire" is a product of "mainstream Xy."

Such knowledge!! Wow. The OT mentions nothing of Gods purifying fire and this fire was a christainity thing. Now i know

I've never heard a Xian repeat that phrase. In any case, the Church doesn't teach that precept. the Church teaches what is Biblically sound: Release of captives, raising up of the downtrodden, proclamation of the year of the Lord's favor.

Like i said, little truth but ultimately when you scrutinize it and hold it to the whole Word of God it turns out to be false.

For example, i bet in your pews (and most churches) you guys probably sing that song that goes something LIKE "and He shall reign for ever and ever". Does this stand up to scripture? NO. Do you teach it? Most likely.

 

[sojourner]

Gee, i guess youre right. So when i take something like "God is love" and i try to "prooftext" this all over the bible i am wrong because that should only stay in the context of 1 John.

Oh brother:faint:

No, that's not what proof-texting is.
Proof-texting is: "the practice of using decontextualised quotations from a document ... to establish a proposition." (From Wiki).

So physically eating a wafer and drinking wine is worshipping spiritually. Heck lets go back animal sacrificing too

If it's done in the context of worship, yes it is.
Since Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, once for all, subsequent sacrifices are no longer necessary.

Oh it matters alot and if you cant see this then you are truly "blind". How do you think we got doctrines like hell, immortal soul, everlasting. And your a pastor huh?:cover:

Through misunderstanding, (usually through such irresponsible practices as eisegesis or proof-texting). Not through misinterpreting single terms taken out of context. Translation includes context.

Oh and let me add, you show that the parables of the treasure hidden in the field and the pearl of great price mean pretty much nothing to you. Do you understand those parables? Do you know what the "essence of the meaning" is in them?

Of course. I'm actually preaching on them in two days' time.
In Matthew's context, they show the desire for true relationship should outweigh the desire to hang on to practices that tend to obscure that relationship (especially as that relationship informs the community of who they are in relationship to God). My context may be a little different, since my community is in a different place chronologically, culturally, and spiritually than Matthew's.

Oh it was the gospel writers intentions for what they put in thier books and nothing to do with what God wanted known. Gosh what was i thinking.

What, indeed? I'm afraid to ask!

Such knowledge!! Wow. The OT mentions nothing of Gods purifying fire and this fire was a christainity thing. Now i know

If, by your use of the term "Fire" (captital "F") you mean to equate it with the "Word," (captial "W"), and if you equate the "Word" with the Bible, which it seems obvious that you're doing, then, yes, it's an Xy thing, since the Church compiled the Bible as we have it.

For example, i bet in your pews (and most churches) you guys probably sing that song that goes something LIKE "and He shall reign for ever and ever". Does this stand up to scripture? NO. Do you teach it? Most likely.

You're referencing "Hallelujah!" from Messiah. And, no. Our congregation doesn't sing that.
But we do sing hymns, that refer to Jesus' kingship. And it is solid orthodox theology to do so.
If you want to be heretical, go right ahead. Jesus loves you just as much.

 

[free spirit]

I follow no denomination and none of the doctrines taught by the churches or man--for they contain a little truth in them but ultimately are false when you hold them to the fire (The Word of God). the physical rituals, tithing, free will, faith only, man having the ability to come to Christ by their own power, the trinity, once saved always saved, which baptism is correct, etc etc. You can take almost all their doctrines of men show how they contradict the Word. I worship in spirit. I have (to at least most of what i know) followed the command to "Come out her my people". I have come out of babylon. I "see" Jesus in all of the scriptures. I "see" me also in the scriptures. Do you "see" Jesus as the eonion God? Hes not the everlasting God. Do you know the difference there? Do you know the key words in these bible translations that have been mistranslated, omitted, inserted? Do you know all parables? Cus if you know one you can know them all. Do you know what the parables are about?

I am in agreement with you on "rituals" "tithing" "faith only" "once saved, always saved" and all the others mentioned here. But we do have free will, what you are suggestin would make us puppets, and this debate would be useless, our lives would be a joke, it would be raw cruelty from God.

Im not saying i know all for that would be foolish. What i do know is that if mainstream christainity teaches it, its probably mostly false when you hold it to the Fire. Heres a simple simple simple one. Everyone parrots the saying "God dont like ugly". Is this true? The scriptures say different.

Religions and their dotrines leads the believer to Christ. Luke 16 - 29 to 31, "But Abraham said. They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them. But he said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone rises from the dead."

Just like what you are parrotting here. We dont have rules to obey? Do you really believe this? That by definition is lawlessness. Please rethink on this and study the scriptures more because i can show you so much on this "lawlessness" doctrine taught by mainstream christainity that wont survive the Fire.

I knew that this would separate you from the true spiritual; I do not obey any rule I do not need them, that does not mean I am lawless, but I have extablished the universal law in my heart, in other words I have Christ in me, so now I can love God with all my heart, and I can love my neighbore like myself. that is to say I live within Christ's character. Like in Adam character I can do nothing but sin, in Christ character I cannot longer sin. I am certain this will shock you.
1 john 3 - 9, "No one who is born of God practice sin, because his seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Edit---also your example sounds like those who say all religions lead to God and i know you dont believe that do you?

I belive that all religions, that are worthy to be called religion, lead to Christ, and Christ leads you to God.

 

[free spirit]

These are poor examples of what you're trying to prove. These have to do with primogeniture. Notice that, in all of these cases, the elder son (who would normally inherit) is cast aside, and the younger son inherits. This shows, not "two kinds of religious people," but shows, rather, how God's salvation works. God is particular to the poor, the outcast, the downtrodden. God saves the remnant. These Biblical characters are all types of Israel, who is a "holy remnant."

Like the story of the prodical son; he had no pride left, he had spent all the holiness God had endowed him with, and so he came to his senses and repented.
But the one that remained with the father got angry, this is the religious man, he has a lot to be proud of, like he did what the father told him to. in other words he obeyed the commandaments, but never reached true spirituality.

This might have more in common with OT passages, like the Song of Moses, or NT passages, such as the magnificat, than it does with, for example, the "golden calf" pericope, or Luke's "brood of vipers" passage.[/quote

]
The "golden calf" rapresents the idolatry of riches and the world is lead by it, even pentecostal churches preach the gospel of prosperety, which is nothing but idolatry.

 

[emiliano]

Ahh but God does. And it is littered throughout the bible with examples. Pharoah, Peter and the apostles saying they wouldnt deny Christ (remember their volition was this but God, who is in control of all circumstance made them against their own will/volition do this), Saul volition/will was to go and persecute the church and i can think of the persons name right now but the person who was to unblind Saul didnt want to go to him but Jesus made Him go and do it anyway.

And the list goes on and on. Remember, the spirit leads you it doesnt follow you.

What about Adam and Eve? I believe in the doctrine of election, what you are referring to is the elect, and God in His sovereignty draws the elect to the Savoir but as you know not all are drawn, the proofs of this is that we have atheists, pagans and heretics, is God the creator of their unbelief?

Mat 16:24
Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. ​

Desires are the products of our Volition and the Lord says that we can desire to come to Him/the Savior, stating that even those that are not of the elect can be saved if they desire to follow the Lord, so we have the elect and the non-elect with a shot at Salvation. Peter and Saul were of the elect they could not do other ways.

1Pe 1:2
elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
Rom 11:7
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but theelect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Jhn 5:40
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. ​

Now man can make an evil use of His will and reject God as in the case narrated in Zec 7:9-14