Does Atheism Lead to Immoral Behavior?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

people are defecating on the sidewalk, "crappy" is not used figuratively here.

Sounds more like an infrastructure problem

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

generally people use toilets, it's the norm, it's sanitary. when people start defecating on the streets you know things are going in the wrong direction

It’s also a privilege. Society doesn’t make access to bathrooms a priority.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

doesn't atheism give us an account of how the world was created and what the purpose of life is?

Adam’s purpose was weeding and cleaning up poop. Other animals do better at it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Other creatures do show the same sentiments. Elephants bury their dead, for instance. I've seen armadillos mourn their loved ones after they were turned into roadkill and rabbits cry over watching their spouses swept away in rivers. I've seen all sorts of animals wail when their young is killed or harmed, and it can cause them to go into lasting states of grief where they show signs of lethargy.

Domesticated animals like horses, cats, and dogs have also been shown in studies to have an innate sense of what you might call "fairness." For instance, when they live with other domestic animals who get more treats than they do for the same tasks, they tend to protest or try to "correct" the unfair treatment.

Drug dealing and prostitution are mostly human issues, so they don't really apply to animals. That said, you underestimate the emotional complexity of animals.

Au contraire mon frere. It appears that there are various forms of prostitution among some animals. Chimps have their own version of "dinner and a movie":

Chimps Barter for Sex

Capuchin monkeys invented it on their own in an experiment where researchers tried to introduce the concept of money to them:

How scientists taught monkeys the concept of money. Not long after, the first prostitute monkey appeared

And the most shameless of harlots are penguins. They will give it up for pebbles.

 

[DNB]

Hedonism is a philosophy about righteousness, so that's a contradiction. I also think it's worth noting that the majority of ethical philosophies are founded on a self-coherentist approach to moral intuition. That is, they take our feelings about certain issues, abstract and generalize them, and then correct any contradictions that arise.

Ethical philosophy is actually a perfect example of what I'm talking about in that sense.
I disagree completely for the reasons I've already given

Likewise, in regard to your comprehension of morality - which is expected when a Christian debates with a Stoic.

 

[DNB]

I have something else I wanted to point out about what you're saying here.

Religious morality is not absolute. It's relative to that religion. In Christianity in particular, that morality takes the form of a divine law which is enforced by judging the individual and sentencing them to the relevant afterlife.

This is really no different from what human courts of law do, which is completely artificial. In practice, all you're doing is submitting yourself to the authority of the church, which is composed of people, or to the laws laid out in scripture, which were also written by people. There's nothing there to make them universal.

Even if God were to exist, which he doesn't, the God that you're talking about is totalitarian. He would punish me for the thought-crime of not believing in him, despite the fact that I can't help but not believe he exists, and he would do so with a punishment that is literally incomprehensibly horrible.

Is that really justice to you? It's difficult for me to imagine a situation that I would consider even more unjust, except maybe if I was being punished for someone else's wrongdoing. That's also a common belief in Christianity, though, thanks to Original Sin.

ETA: So what you're claiming is moral due to some "intrinsic property" isn't really the reality of Christian morality as I see it. Christian morality is hoping to be rewarded by God for your obedience, or at least submitting to his threats.

I don't believe in an afterlife or a God to judge me, so I don't believe the laws attributed to God have any such consequence. That's the real disagreement here.

I'm sorry Ella, but your reaction to your hypothetical proposition that 'even if God did exist', shows the irrationality behind your logic. If God did exist, and you, and everything under the sun, were created by Him, what justifiable contention could you possibly have with the way that He governs the universe - He create you and your mind, your feelings and your ability to live, think, hate and love?

 

[DNB]

Human beings kill each other in droves, all the time. Should I list all the wars that have been fought since we've been on this planet?

As to the rest of it, you really need to study up on the animal kingdom, if you truly believe that other animals "don't protest when another animal steals their food" or that they aren't upset when a family member dies."

Maybe you need to recheck you comprehension of the animal kingdom, and rethink what showing selfish and survivalist aggression towards a scavenger means, as opposed to organizing demonstrations and showing indignation towards the notion of theft.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm sorry Ella, but your reaction to your hypothetical proposition that 'even if God did exist', shows the irrationality behind your logic. If God did exist, and you, and everything under the sun, were created by Him, what justifiable contention could you possibly have with the way that He governs the universe - He create you and your mind, your feelings and your ability to live, think, hate and love?

It appears that you believe that "might makes right" by this post. Are you saying that a creator cannot be evil?

 

[F1fan]

I'm sorry Ella, but your reaction to your hypothetical proposition that 'even if God did exist', shows the irrationality behind your logic. If God did exist, and you, and everything under the sun, were created by Him, what justifiable contention could you possibly have with the way that He governs the universe - He create you and your mind, your feelings and your ability to live, think, hate and love?

So that's is what causes children's cancers, your God.

 

[muhammad_isa]

So that's is what causes children's cancers, your God.

..rather than making flippant comments, what do you think is responsible for cancers, and why they are on the increase?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Maybe you need to recheck you comprehension of the animal kingdom, and rethink what showing selfish and survivalist aggression towards a scavenger means, as opposed to organizing demonstrations and showing indignation towards the notion of theft.

I would suggest that you take your own advice. I've already studied the animal kingdom in great depth in university, hence my comments to you on the subject.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm sorry Ella, but your reaction to your hypothetical proposition that 'even if God did exist', shows the irrationality behind your logic. If God did exist, and you, and everything under the sun, were created by Him, what justifiable contention could you possibly have with the way that He governs the universe - He create you and your mind, your feelings and your ability to live, think, hate and love?

So what? Just because somebody supposedly created me doesn't mean they own me or that I owe them anything. My mother doesn't demand blind loyalty from me, just because she gave birth to me. She doesn't own me. And neither does some God.

I find the God of the Bible to be immoral and not worthy of worship.

 

[DNB]

So what? Just because somebody supposedly created me doesn't mean they own me or that I owe them anything. My mother doesn't demand blind loyalty from me, just because she gave birth to me. She doesn't own me. And neither does some God.

I find the God of the Bible to be immoral and not worthy of worship.

I have absolutely no idea where you people get your ideas from???
The Creator of the universe owns us all - try and stop Him.

 

[F1fan]

I have absolutely no idea where you people get your ideas from???
The Creator of the universe owns us all - try and stop Him.

Doctors are working hard to stop the cancers your God created in children and adults. Some of these adults are mothers with young children. Why does your God do that to children and mothers?

So are doctors immoral and evil for going against God's will by saving the lives of children?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Doctors are working hard to stop the cancers your God created in children and adults. Some of these adults are mothers with young children. Why does your God do that to children and mothers?

So are doctors immoral and evil for going against God's will by saving the lives of children?

You still haven't told us what is responsible for cancers, and why they are on the increase .. in your opinion, that is.

 

[F1fan]

You still haven't told us what is responsible for cancers, and why they are on the increase .. in your opinion, that is.

I'm educated and rational, so I defer to what science reports as a natural set of causes, some of which are genetic while other causes are behavioral or environmental.

Of course you are a religious person and will reject this factual explanation, and claim your God is the cause for all that occurs in the universe, including fatal diseases.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm educated and rational, so I defer to what science reports as a natural set of causes, some of which are genetic while other causes are behavioral or environmental.

Of course you are a religious person and will reject this factual explanation, and claim your God is the cause for all that occurs in the universe, including fatal diseases.

No, I completely agree with what you say.

 

[DNB]

Doctors are working hard to stop the cancers your God created in children and adults. Some of these adults are mothers with young children. Why does your God do that to children and mothers?

So are doctors immoral and evil for going against God's will by saving the lives of children?

I don't entirely know why, outside of the fact that when man does not abide by God's laws and precepts, even going as far as denying His existence, that there are repercussions both physically and mentally, even affecting nature itself (God cursed the earth after the fall of man).
Some of these consequences were inflicted by God Himself, others are results of our own actions and attitudes.

 

[F1fan]

I don't entirely know why, outside of the fact that when man does not abide by God's laws and precepts, even going as far as denying His existence, that there are repercussions both physically and mentally, even affecting nature itself (God cursed the earth after the fall of man).
Some of these consequences were inflicted by God Himself, others are results of our own actions and attitudes.

So you don't dispute that your God is responsible for cancers, in cluding those that affect children.

And you call atheists evil?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm sorry Ella, but your reaction to your hypothetical proposition that 'even if God did exist', shows the irrationality behind your logic. If God did exist, and you, and everything under the sun, were created by Him, what justifiable contention could you possibly have with the way that He governs the universe

The type of contention that comes about through rational reasoning by an independent mind.
Just because there is this all powerful entity that created everything, does not by any means give that entity a "free pass" to do whatever it wants. It doesn't make it immune to immoral behavior.

Contrary to what many theists seem to believe: might does not make right.

- He create you and your mind, your feelings and your ability to live, think, hate and love?

Even if we would bend over backwards and accept that: why would that matter? So what?
Does that mean this entity is immune to moral standards?