Does Being Born Again Make You A Better Person?

[doppelganger]

If anybody condemns us, it is ourselves.

How very insightful. :yes:

Frubals.

 

[Muffled]

You are able to share if people want to hear about it. It's not about political correctness. Even if you were allowed to proselytize to whomever you wanted whenever you wanted, you would not be sharing joy unless the person was open to hearing about it. Instead, you would be making them miserable.

But if the person wants to hear, there is no reason why you cannot share.

Sometimes God calls us to witness to people who don't want to hear Him. God made me take a job with a Jewish boss just so I could witness to him. I knew enough not to take the job because I knew that he would find a way to fire me and I was right. I suspect that God couldn't find any other way to get to him since he had himself walled off pretty well. In addition I worked with a person who was leaving Mormonism to go to a metaphysically oriented church. All I did was warn him that he could be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire because every Christian has to plow their own field.

 

[Smoke]

Sometimes God calls us to witness to people who don't want to hear Him. God made me take a job with a Jewish boss just so I could witness to him. I knew enough not to take the job because I knew that he would find a way to fire me and I was right.

I imagine he did!

 

[ChristineES]

If God wanted me to witness to someone, then I would have no choice but to obey God (look what happened to Jonah, when he disobeyed, ). It is hard to know who would be receptive to my witnessing. I have witnessed in the past, and even the atheists were receptive to what I had to say, even if they did not believe it. Maybe it was my approach or more likely it was God.

 

[Katzpur]

I suppose I am pretty sceptical about 'born agains' as opposed to other Christians, because I have not had the best of experiences with many of them. A person I know well was a nice enough guy before he got 'born again', now he is judgemental and unpleasant. There is not much point in a faith which doesn't make you nice to know, imo.

I agree. That is my experience also. On the other hand, I don't believe that these folks have a very accurate understanding of what the term "born again" really means. According to my belief, being born again means to have a change of heart, resulting in the desire to live in accordance to Jesus' example, i.e. being loving, charitable, non-judgmental, merciful, etc. If my understanding of what it means to be born again is correct, then being born again would make you a better person. The sudden impression that you've been "saved" and are now home free certainly doesn't qualify in my opinion.

 

[lilithu]

Sometimes God calls us to witness to people who don't want to hear Him. God made me take a job with a Jewish boss just so I could witness to him. I knew enough not to take the job because I knew that he would find a way to fire me and I was right. I suspect that God couldn't find any other way to get to him since he had himself walled off pretty well.

Are you sure it's God who wants you to witness and not your own desire to do so?

If God wanted me to witness to someone, then I would have no choice but to obey God (look what happened to Jonah, when he disobeyed, ).

That's true, the story of Jonah tells us that when called to do something we cannot deny the call. But in that story it was pretty clear whom God wanted Jonah to witness to. Not just anyone within earshot, but the city of Nineveh. And it was clear what God wanted Jonah to say: not to convert to Christianity, but to change their evil ways.

Interestingly, when the city of Ninevah did heed God's word and God forgave them, Jonah was upset by this. He had preached fire and brimstone and he wanted God to send fire and brimstone to prove that he was right. And God teased him for it. The story of Jonah tells us to be careful not to confuse what we want with what God wants when we speak for God.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. My point in response to your first post is that when the time is right, you can share your good news and someone will be happy to hear it.

 

[ChristineES]

Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. My point in response to your first post is that when the time is right, you can share your good news and someone will be happy to hear it.

I get the strange feeling that God would not tell me to witness to someone who is not receptive to it. The people of Ninevah were receptive, they changed their ways. And you're right, we must be able to tell the difference from what God wants and what we want.

 

[Muffled]

I agree. That is my experience also. On the other hand, I don't believe that these folks have a very accurate understanding of what the term "born again" really means. According to my belief, being born again means to have a change of heart, resulting in the desire to live in accordance to Jesus' example, i.e. being loving, charitable, non-judgmental, merciful, etc. If my understanding of what it means to be born again is correct, then being born again would make you a better person. The sudden impression that you've been "saved" and are now home free certainly doesn't qualify in my opinion.

IMO the person you described is not born again, but the same person trying hard to fulfill the law just like the Jews and Muslims.

 

[Muffled]

Are you sure it's God who wants you to witness and not your own desire to do so?


That's true, the story of Jonah tells us that when called to do something we cannot deny the call. But in that story it was pretty clear whom God wanted Jonah to witness to. Not just anyone within earshot, but the city of Nineveh. And it was clear what God wanted Jonah to say: not to convert to Christianity, but to change their evil ways.

Interestingly, when the city of Ninevah did heed God's word and God forgave them, Jonah was upset by this. He had preached fire and brimstone and he wanted God to send fire and brimstone to prove that he was right. And God teased him for it. The story of Jonah tells us to be careful not to confuse what we want with what God wants when we speak for God.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent there. My point in response to your first post is that when the time is right, you can share your good news and someone will be happy to hear it.

Absolutely I am sure. I could not have held my tongue even wanting to because God puts the words in my mouth. Getting fired was the last thing that I wanted because it meant disaster for my personal life. Basically I put my life on the line for this person who could have cared less what happened to me.

 

[Muffled]

I get the strange feeling that God would not tell me to witness to someone who is not receptive to it. The people of Ninevah were receptive, they changed their ways. And you're right, we must be able to tell the difference from what God wants and what we want.

Read your Bible. Jeremiah had things to say that nobody liked and Elijah had things to say that Jezebel wanted to kill him for saying.

 

[doppelganger]

Can one be born again without using any of the Jesus symbology?

Put another way, if I am the author of my own judgment, then I can stop engaging in judging myself. Could it be that "Jesus" is often used to facilitate living with guilt when it cannot be let go?

Does holding that guilt, but living with it through by use of religion make a person "better"? Does it make a person feel beholden? And if the means of reconciling feelings of guilt are controlled by a religious institution, doesn't that greatly heighten the risk of the individual being beholden specifically to the will of that institution's leadership?

 

[lilithu]

Can one be born again without using any of the Jesus symbology?

Yes, born again as in transformed.

Not transformed as in going from sin/guilt-ridden to washed free of sin/guilt. Transformed as in going from one state, which was not "bad", to another even better state. Realization.

 

[doppelganger]

Not transformed as in going from sin/guilt-ridden to washed free of sin/guilt. Transformed as in going from one state, which was not "bad", to another even better state. Realization.

Oooooooo . . . good answer. :yes:

 

[lilithu]

Absolutely I am sure. I could not have held my tongue even wanting to because God puts the words in my mouth.

And what makes you so sure that's God putting words in your mouth instead of you not controlling your own ego?

Why would God call you to testify if the ground is not fertile? It isn't your testimony that converts/saves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit moving in the other person. And if the other person doesn't want to hear, then obviously the Spirit has not prepared that soil. Remember Jesus' parable with the mustard seeds? Why spread seeds on rocky soil?

Read your Bible. Jeremiah had things to say that nobody liked and Elijah had things to say that Jezebel wanted to kill him for saying.

And you think you are Jeremiah or Elijah?

 

[ChristineES]

Read your Bible. Jeremiah had things to say that nobody liked and Elijah had things to say that Jezebel wanted to kill him for saying.

That's the 2nd time you said "read your Bible" to me in a post. I wish you would stop that, please.
I wasn't talking about Jeremiah or another prophet, I was talking about myself. I am not a prophet. I also haven't been called to be a preacher. On top of that, just because someone gets angry, does not mean they are not receptive, in fact the contrary can be said. Jezebel heard him, didn't she? If she hadn't been receptive, then she would not have wanted Elijah killed. We all know that Elijah never died.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

No. Becuase when your born again you carrry the weight of your sins in your past life and you have to serve your sin time on earth in a position of pain. But once thats gone its time for the good side of the scales, then the slates are wiped clean.

 

[Muffled]

And what makes you so sure that's God putting words in your mouth instead of you not controlling your own ego?

Why would God call you to testify if the ground is not fertile? It isn't your testimony that converts/saves, it is the work of the Holy Spirit moving in the other person. And if the other person doesn't want to hear, then obviously the Spirit has not prepared that soil. Remember Jesus' parable with the mustard seeds? Why spread seeds on rocky soil?


And you think you are Jeremiah or Elijah?

I agrre with Paul. "I am what I am by the grace of God."

Who said it was a ministry of spreading seed. Sometimes God gives me the ministry of digging rocks out of a hard heart. For the person I'm digging into it can be a painful experience. As Jesus said to Paul "Why do you kick against the goads?" It was mostly what my ministry consisted of in the past because I was a jail minister and there is no shortage of hard hearts and people who don't want to hear from God in jail.

God loves even the most wicked. A healthy person doesn't need a physician but a wicked person is sick unto death.

I am not confused in this regard. I know my own ego and I know God and the difference between the two.

 

[Muffled]

No. Becuase when your born again you carrry the weight of your sins in your past life and you have to serve your sin time on earth in a position of pain. But once thats gone its time for the good side of the scales, then the slates are wiped clean.

Although this has nothing to do with being a better person or being born again, it is sometimes misunderstood in Christian circles. Our slate is wiped clean in relation to God but our past sinful life has repercussions that don't necessarily end with being born again. I went to church with a woman who was a drug addict before she was born again. She also had Aids and that did not go away after she was born again. I would imagine that an alcoholics liver damage would not go away either.

On the contrary, being born again can mean the cessation of drug taking and aloholism and reduce the risk of an early death.

 

[Engyo]

A friend of mine has a bumper sticker that reads:

Buddhist: Born again, and again, and again, and again, and again............

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Muffled, there is no need to see everything in christian viwes. Everyone on RF knows about religions except there own. Your karma is carried on. Once you pay for your sins your even.