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Does believing, thinking or feeling something is true actually make it true?

I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Yes, they point to a part of the human everyday world but not all of the human experince. But you are the gate keeper of what matters and what rule we should use for the words man and woman. And that is something you can point to and is not based on how you heard your inner voices for what makes a man and a woman that. ;)
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Nobody's "inner voices" makes anyone a man or a woman. "Inner voices" don't determine anything.
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
sayak83 said:
I edited my post.
You talked about gender identity in the OP.
Gender and Gender identity are the same thing.
No every person has a gender identity. My physical sex is male, my gender identity is man, and my sexual orientation is heterosexual. All these identities are crucial in my life and personality. Your denial about these things seems only because you cannot make up a good argument for your case.
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They aren't the same thing though. I know you REALLY want them to be but they aren't. I can identify as a millionaire all I like. Guess what? I'm not a millionaire in spite of my identifying as one..
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Wandering Monk said:
A person should be afforded the courtesy of being treated as whatever gender they associate with, if for no other reason than to make their lives better. People with gender dysphoria are under great stress because of other peoples expectations and compliance demands. How about just leaving them the hell alone?
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I agree with this. Leave them the hell alone, and treat them the way you would want to be treated if you must have some interactions with them.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Ignatius A said:
Nobody's "inner voices" makes anyone a man or a woman. "Inner voices" don't determine anything.
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Okay. A part of truth in its different application aside from your version of the correspondence theory of truth, is truth in regards to logical deduction.
So here is a premise I assume to be true: I have XY chromosomes.
Conclusion: Therefore I am a man.

Now since you are well versed in truth, you know how come the conclusion is not valid and thus not true in that sense.
So you need another premise:
1: I have XY chromosomes.
2: To have XY chromosomes is to be a man.
C: Therefore I am a man.

Now you just have to show how premise 2 is sound(true in that sense) and you have shown it with truth. Can you do that?
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
Kathryn said:
I agree with this. Leave them the hell alone, and treat them the way you would want to be treated if you must have some interactions with them.
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So a 25 year old woman who is 5'5" tall and weights 98 lbs who identifies as fat and wants to be put on a diet to lose weight should be treated the way she wants to be treated?
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ignatius A said:
They aren't the same thing though. I know you REALLY want them to be but they aren't. I can identify as a millionaire all I like. Guess what? I'm not a millionaire in spite of my identifying as one..
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Your saying so does not make it true. Even though you really want them to be different, they are not. Sorry.

In any case your OP explicitly mentioned gender identity only. Now you are trying to shift goalposts through meaningless differentiations.
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Ignatius A said:
So a 25 year old woman who is 5'5" tall and weights 98 lbs who identifies as fat and wants to be put on a diet to lose weight should be treated the way she wants to be treated?
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Are you a doctor or dietician? I mean, and is this your patient? Otherwise, I'd say just avoid interactions with her as much as possible, and generally speaking, yes, treat her as YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED. Note the difference between what you're saying and what I'm saying.
 
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I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Okay. A part of truth in its different application aside from your version of the correspondence theory of truth, is truth in regards to logical deduction.
So here is a premise I assume to be true: I have XY chromosomes.
Conclusion: Therefore I am a man.

Now since you are well versed in truth, you know how come the conclusion is not valid and thus not true in that sense.
So you need another premise:
1: I have XY chromosomes.
2: To have XY chromosomes is to be a man.
C: Therefore I am a man.

Now you just have to show how premise 2 is sound(true in that sense) and you have shown it with truth. Can you do that?
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Your first attempt at a premise in the first paragraph is inadequate. You missed a step. It should have read this way
A man has XY chromosomes
I have XY chromosomes
Therefore I am a man.
Do you understand the difference between what you wrote and what I wrote?

What you have as #2 must be #1. Nobody cares what chromosomes you have . It must first be established who has XY chromosomes. Men have XY chromosomes. IF you have XY chromosomes then and only then are you a man. I not sure why you're using that if you don't know how it works.
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
sayak83 said:
Your saying so does not make it true. Even though you really want them to be different, they are not. Sorry.

In any case your OP explicitly mentioned gender identity only. Now you are trying to shift goalposts through meaningless differentiations.
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In guess the same is true for you right?

Where? Copy and paste my words where I said "gender identity".
 
Tomef

Tomef

Well-Known Member
Ignatius A said:
In recent discussions about gender identity it was said that gender identity is validated by what the person believes, thinks and feels. Fine. The follow question was then posted: Is someone with a penis who believes, thinks and feels that they are woman, actually a woman? The common response was, it's not a yes or no question. Is that true? If a person said they believe, think and feel that they are a frog mean they are actually a frog? Could we not say to that person you are an amphibian?
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If you have an issue with people thinking their imagination makes things real, what does that tell you about believing in invisible gods and myths based on other myths?
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
Kathryn said:
Are you a doctor or dietician? I mean, and is this your patient? Otherwise, I'd say just avoid interactions with her as much as possible, and generally speaking, yes, treat her as YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED. Note the difference between what you're saying and what I'm saying.
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Why does that matter? Do I need to be a doctor to know that a 5'5" tall person who is 98 lbs isnt actually fat even if they believe think and feel that they are? If that person was talking to a doctor the doctor should give her a diet to lose weight.
 
I

Ignatius A

Well-Known Member
Tomef said:
If you have an issue with people thinking their imagination makes things real, what does that tell you about believing in invisible gods and myths based on other myths?
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I merely asked a question. Where did I say I have an issue with it? Is it in your imagination that I did? I think I see what you mean.
 
Kathryn

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Ignatius A said:
Why does that matter? Do I need to be a doctor to know that a 5'5" tall person who is 98 lbs isnt actually fat even if they believe think and feel that they are? If that person was talking to a doctor the doctor should give her a diet to lose weight.
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It matters if you are her doctor or dietician. Also, I said treat others the way YOU want to be treated, not the way THEY want to be treated.
 
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