Does believing, thinking or feeling something is true actually make it true?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

I ask again: exactly what is it, at every moment of your life, that makes you feel assuredly that you are a man?

My answer is that I don't feel like a man, I am a man because I have xy chromosomes. How is a man supposed to feel to feel like a man?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Gender isnt an abstract. It refers to sex. Male/man, female/woman. Gender roles are abstract and have been socially constructed.

Okay, we use words differently. So gender is something different to you than to me.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

My answer is that I don't feel like a man, I am a man because I have xy chromosomes. How is a man supposed to feel to feel like a man?

So only persons who have hade their chromosomes test know what they are and in fact eveybody in history before there were tests had no known sex.

 

[SalixIncendium]

My answer is that I don't feel like a man, I am a man because I have xy chromosomes. How is a man supposed to feel to feel like a man?

Let's ask Shania...

Essentially, biological sex isn't gender. Biological sex may be determined by chromosomes, but gender is determined through identity, behavior, and expression.

 

[sayak83]

So you need a doctor to tell you. Thanks.

of course. you thought differently? perhaps you should justify why you think doctors are not necessary for the purpose?

 

[PureX]

I made the unfortunate mistake of asking people what they think.

The mistake is in not listening to what they're telling you. I think people can think whatever they want about their own sexuality. And I don't need to know what they're thinking about it unless I'm interacting with them is some way that woukd require me to know about it.

It's funny because lots of people have lots of thoughts about lots of things that have nothing to do with them but they have no problems sharing those thoughts. It's the selectivity that's most hilarious

They ARE sharing their thoughts. You just aren't listening. You want to insist that other people can't contradict your conceptions of their own sexuality. That to do so would be the equivalent of their claiming they are from some other planet. But it's not.

 

[Ignatius A]

Okay, we use words differently. So gender is something different to you than to me.

That may be there case but gender isn't a social construct. The word "gender" points to the sex of the person in the same way the word "east" points to where in the horizon the sun rises. If you want to argue that the words "gender" and "east" are social constructs I completely agree with you but what each word points to is not a social construct.

 

[Ignatius A]

of course. you thought differently? perhaps you should justify why you think doctors are not necessary for the purpose?

What else do you need a doctor to tell you? When to pee?

 

[Ignatius A]

The mistake is in not listening to what they're telling you. I think people can think whatever they want about their own sexuality. And I don't need to know what they're thinking about it unless I'm interacting with them is some way that woukd require me to know about it.

They ARE sharing their thoughts. You just aren't listening. You want to insist that other people can't contradict your conceptions of their own sexuality. That to do so would be the equivalent of their claiming they are from some other planet. But it's not.

No they arent sharing their thoughts, they're scared to death to share their thoughts about this.

 

[Quintessence]

That depends on how you define a sex. I am serious. Depend on if you use just chromosones, or include other factors in different combinations including even differences in psychology and cognition for a broad cluster of different behaviours of male and female to the point that we are all variants of aspects of being male and female in different combinaitions and degrees.

To add, since earlier in the thread you mentioned that sex is biological while gender is cultural, this is an example of why that isn't precisely the case. Sex is also defined culturally, even as it is informed by one's understanding of biological sciences.

Honestly, this is how all human descriptions of anything works. There's the phenomena that exists in of itself with or without the presence of human observers, and then human observers interpreting it and putting labels on it and putting it into boxes. That part is culturally constructed, or has gone through a filter. This is difficult for many folks to understand, but especially for topics they have a personal stake in or are attached to as a map-of-territory.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That may be there case but gender isn't a social construct. The word "gender" points to the sex of the person in the same way the word "east" points to where in the horizon the sun rises. If you want to argue that the words "gender" and "east" are social constructs I completely agree with you but what each word points to is not a social construct.

So that makes a woman a woman beyound her chromosones are objective facts, you can point to. Please give an exmaple of that and include how you point to the objective fact.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

To add, since earlier in the thread you mentioned that sex is biological while gender is cultural, this is an example of why that isn't precisely the case. Sex is also defined culturally, even as it is informed by one's understanding of biological sciences.

Honestly, this is how all human descriptions of anything works. There's the phenomena that exists in of itself with or without the presence of human observers, and then human observers interpreting it and putting labels on it and putting it into boxes. That part is culturally constructed, or has gone through a filter. This is difficult for many folks to understand, but especially for topics they have a personal stake in or are attached to as a map-of-territory.

Yeah, but that is not unique to sex and gender. For nature and culture, what is what is culture.
But at least some people believe in a totally objective reality independent of humans that they can know about. That is a contradiction in terms in effect.

 

[Ignatius A]

So that makes a woman a woman beyound her chromosones are objective facts, you can point to. Please give an exmaple of that and include how you point to the objective fact.

Are you asking a question? Is English your second language? That's a sincere question not an insult. A woman is a woman because of her chromosomes. Nothing "beyond" her chromosomes "makes" her a woman. You graso that concept right?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Are you asking a question? Is English your second language? That's a sincere question not an insult. A woman is a woman because of her chromosomes. Nothing "beyond" her chromosomes "makes" her a woman. You gross that concept right?

So what is gender if not just another word for sex, which is another word for chromosones? Is that it? Gender is sex is chromosones?

Added: Definition of GENDER

 

[Ignatius A]

So what is gender if not just another word for sex, which is another word for chromosones? Is that it? Gender is sex is chromosones?

They all point to the same thing. The thing they all point to is not a social construct. AGAIN gender roles are social constructs not gender. If you're a man that thinks you're a woman great, that doesn't make you a woman. You're just a man who thinks you're a woman. This isnt hard to understand.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

They all point to the same thing. The thing they all point to is not a social constructs. AGAIN gender roles are social constructs not gender. If you're a man that thinks you're a woman great, that doesn't make you a woman. You're just a man who thinks you're a woman. This isnt hard to understand.

Yeah, that you subjective choose to claim that what makes a man a man are his chromosones is something you do and can't point to. It is not something you point to. It is a choice you make in your mind.
That is not so hard to understand.

 

[Ignatius A]

Yeah, that you subjective choose to claim that what makes a man a man are his chromosones is something you do and can't point to. It is not something you point to. It is a choice you make in your mind.
That is not so hard to understand.

I can't point to chromosomes?

Beyond that you realize do you that everything you just wrote there is nothing but a choice you make in your mind. If what I said isnt true then by definition what you said can't be true and everything you say about gender isnt true. You don't even realize you painted yourself into a corner.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I can't point to chromosomes?

Beyond that you realize do you that everything you just wrote there is nothing but a choice you make in your mind. If what I said isnt true then by definition what you said can't be true and everything you say about gender isnt true. You don't even realize you painted yourself into a corner.

No, you can't point to that it makes a human be a man or woman.
Further, you can't point to truth like chromosones. That is also an idea in your mind.

 

[sayak83]

What else do you need a doctor to tell you? When to pee?

Your dodging of the question is noted. Also noted is your close minded satisfaction about your own ignorance. What is it that is said in the Bible? Something about not throwing pearls to pigs. Anyways, here is a pearl.
Neurobiology of gender identity and sexual orientation
Gender identity and sexual orientation are fundamental independent characteristics of an individual’s sexual identity.1 Gender identity refers to a person’s innermost concept of self as male, female or something else and can be the same or different from one’s physical sex.2 Sexual orientation refers to an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic and/or sexual attractions to men, women or both sexes.

Physical sex is one thing.
Gender identity is another thing.
Sexual orientation is another thing.

All three can vary and need not be correlated with each other.

 

[Ignatius A]

No, you can't point to that it makes a human be a man or woman.
Further, you can't point to truth like chromosones. That is also an idea in your mind.

I sure can and I do.

Chromosomes are not in my mind.