Does god make a good parent?

[Autodidact]

You know how with some people you can be around them for years and years, and still not know them – but then other people you hit it off the moment you meet them, by the end of the night you know one another, you can finish each other’s sentences – you know them from what you have in common.

If you live your life on the sea… you might not know the name Vasco Da Gama, you might not know the name, but if you know what a life at sea is, you know him. If you ever met him, you would be able to finish one another’s sentences, because you live for the same things.

What does this have to do with my post?

 

[Autodidact]

it's not just a feeling...

Really? What is it? Tell us.

 

[waitasec]

** bump **

 

[DeepShadow]

God is the greatest parent who ever lived. He lets you screw up so that you can learn. God is all about learning; and this is also love

Ah, finally someone gets it. :yes:

 

[DeepShadow]

i'm not talking about Jehovah's witnesses here. I'm talking about the christians who believe in hell and that when you die and you aren't a christian you go there for eternity. Clear it up for you? Not everything revolves around your own distinct interpretation of the bible.

Are there any on this thread? So far all you have to argue with are JW and LDS, neither of whom believe what you are arguing against.

 

[waitasec]

Are there any on this thread? So far all you have to argue with are JW and LDS, neither of whom believe what you are arguing against.

ahhh
if you haven't noticed this post was made in 7/10
not so sure you'll get a response..

 

[DeepShadow]

God is a great parent! Here's why:

10) God warns against things that will harm us, but lets us choose for ourselves.
9) God gives us only the information we are able to process at the time. A good parent doesn't overwhelm a 6 year old with a lesson on safe sex.
8) God leads by example. When Christ was on earth, He demonstrated perfect love.
7) God uses natural consequences, not punishment.
6) God expects us to do our part so we can grow. A good parent asks every child to pitch in to the extent of their ability.
5) God maintains constant communication. When do you plan to stop talking to your kids?
4) God sees and encourages the good in all His children, under any outward ugliness or beauty, apart from age or status or color or creed.
3) God gives many gifts freely to everyone. He causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.
2) Whatever He asks us to do, he rewards when we do it. We can never pay back what He has given us, and He doesn't want us to try.

And the #1 reason God is a good parent:

1) He's created a safe system where risk is nonexistent. Worst case scenario: you die, and then you go back to Him and talk about what you learned at school that lifetime.

 

[DeepShadow]

ahhh
if you haven't noticed this post was made in 7/10
not so sure you'll get a response..

Maybe not, but at least he's not one of the banned ones. Not to mention, what I said to him applies to you, too: your OP assumes a very narrow interpretation of God. Are others allowed to share their versions, or not?

 

[waitasec]

Maybe not, but at least he's not one of the banned ones. Not to mention, what I said to him applies to you, too: your OP assumes a very narrow interpretation of God. Are others allowed to share their versions, or not?

ok lets see how the OP is a narrow view of god.
please elaborate on it rather than just making snide remarks without anything to back up your claim other than opinion...

If a parent tells their child was worthless, evil and lucky to be kept alive, what kind of person would that child turn out to be? If a parent executed their child for second guessing them or for disobeying, is that setting a standard for an exemplary parent? I hear this all the time, 'god loves us like a father would.' I couldn’t disagree more. 1st, as a parent, my love is unconditional and I would never set my child up for failure just so he would have to depend on me for everything, from buying a car/house to getting a better job or meeting the right person. My will would trump his and nothing good can come from him and the only good thing about him isn’t him it’s his faith in me…
I think god would FAIL as a parent.
Any thoughts?

 

[DeepShadow]

ok lets see how the OP is a narrow view of god.
please elaborate on it rather than just making snide remarks without anything to back up your claim other than opinion...

I'm sorry if you thought I was being snide. I said it was "narrow." That wasn't intended to be insulting or disparaging.

If a parent tells their child was worthless, evil and lucky to be kept alive, what kind of person would that child turn out to be?

What God are you describing? Not the God of most theists, or even most Christians. Not the God of modern Catholics, JW, LDS, or even Methodists. The only Christian concept of God I can think of that would describe us so comes from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Johnathan Edwards. Most Christians I know of don't subscribe to an Edwardian view of God.

If a parent executed their child for second guessing them or for disobeying, is that setting a standard for an exemplary parent?

Again, this threat of execution for such trivial things doesn't match any view of God I've ever heard of.

I would never set my child up for failure just so he would have to depend on me for everything, from buying a car/house to getting a better job or meeting the right person. My will would trump his and nothing good can come from him and the only good thing about him isn’t him it’s his faith in me…

I'm really sorry if you find the term insulting, but this is not a view of God shared by a majority of Christians. That's the sense in which I'd call this "narrow."

 

[waitasec]

I'm sorry if you thought I was being snide. I said it was "narrow." That wasn't intended to be insulting or disparaging.



What God are you describing? Not the God of most theists, or even most Christians. Not the God of modern Catholics, JW, LDS, or even Methodists. The only Christian concept of God I can think of that would describe us so comes from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Johnathan Edwards. Most Christians I know of don't subscribe to an Edwardian view of God.

the god who would say this gen 8:21
I will never again curse the ground because of the human race, even though everything they think or imagine is bent toward evil from childhood.

Again, this threat of execution for such trivial things doesn't match any view of God I've ever heard of.

revelations 21:6
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

I'm really sorry if you find the term insulting, but this is not a view of God shared by a majority of Christians. That's the sense in which I'd call this "narrow."

luke 11:13 " If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

 

[waitasec]

God is a great parent! Here's why:

10) God warns against things that will harm us, but lets us choose for ourselves.

an ultimatum isn't a choice.

9) God gives us only the information we are able to process at the time. A good parent doesn't overwhelm a 6 year old with a lesson on safe sex.

tell that to a & e
holding them accountable for not knowing what good and evil meant

8) God leads by example. When Christ was on earth, He demonstrated perfect love.

luke 12:47
The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

7) God uses natural consequences, not punishment.

who set up the consequences?

6) God expects us to do our part so we can grow. A good parent asks every child to pitch in to the extent of their ability.

a good parent isn't in the picture for the rest of the child's life

5) God maintains constant communication. When do you plan to stop talking to your kids?

like a i said a good parent lets the child make their own choices and isn't going to make their child choose what the parents want by resorting to ultimatums

4) God sees and encourages the good in all His children, under any outward ugliness or beauty, apart from age or status or color or creed.

have any scripture to back that up?

3) God gives many gifts freely to everyone. He causes the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

huh? is rain a gift?

2) Whatever He asks us to do, he rewards when we do it. We can never pay back what He has given us, and He doesn't want us to try.

ultimatums
and if you are talking about the reward of eternal salvation and the forgiveness of sins...i personally think it is morally wrong to have someone other than myself to own my responsibility and culpability.

And the #1 reason God is a good parent:

1) He's created a safe system where risk is nonexistent. Worst case scenario: you die, and then you go back to Him and talk about what you learned at school that lifetime.

alright david letterman, do you have scripture to back that up with?
what did you learn in your previous life, do you even remember?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

For right now I'll only comment on #9

Quote:
9) God gives us only the information we are able to process at the time. A good parent doesn't overwhelm a 6 year old with a lesson on safe sex.
tell that to a & e
holding them accountable for not knowing what good and evil meant

God usually doesn't explain himself to us. He expects us to take him at his word even when we don't completely understand why.

 

[DeepShadow]

the god who would say this gen 8:21
I will never again curse the ground because of the human race, even though everything they think or imagine is bent toward evil from childhood.

Wow, good thing we have modern prophets to clear that one up! Yeah, that could be confusing. Incidentally, why do you choose that translation? The "even though" in your translation is highly debatable. There are plenty of other conjunctions that are not nearly so harsh, such as, "I will never again curse the ground because of the human race, because they are young and foolish." That would mean he's cutting us more slack because of our weaknesses.

revelations 21:6
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Again, this has been clarified elsewhere. Also, the things you talk about here are not trivial at all, like you said earlier.

luke 11:13 " If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Again, this is a poor translation. "Evil," in this sense, means worldly or prone to mistakes. It's supposed to be a parallelism: "If you then, being [imperfect], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your [perfect Father] give the [best gift] to you."

 

[sojourner]

If a parent tells their child was worthless, evil and lucky to be kept alive, what kind of person would that child turn out to be? If a parent executed their child for second guessing them or for disobeying, is that setting a standard for an exemplary parent? I hear this all the time, 'god loves us like a father would.' I couldn’t disagree more. 1st, as a parent, my love is unconditional and I would never set my child up for failure just so he would have to depend on me for everything, from buying a car/house to getting a better job or meeting the right person. My will would trump his and nothing good can come from him and the only good thing about him isn’t him it’s his faith in me…
I think god would FAIL as a parent.
Any thoughts?

And how many petulant teenagers stomp their feet, defy the household rules, and yell, "I hate you?"
and when that happens, what does the good parent do? Pat the kid on the head and say, "that's ok?"

 

[DeepShadow]

an ultimatum isn't a choice.

Yes, but a warning is not an ultimatum.

tell that to a & e
holding them accountable for not knowing what good and evil meant

They didn't need to know what good and evil meant. All they needed to know was that the tree's fruit meant death, and that the choice was theirs. Actually that's a great example of getting a warning and a choice.

luke 12:47
The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows.

This was the end of a parable. The actual "beating" does not come from the actual "master."

who set up the consequences?

Huh? Are you asking me who was here before God? The consequences are natural. They predate God.

a good parent isn't in the picture for the rest of the child's life

Why not? I'm still in touch with my parents, even now that I'm grown. I call them once a week, we Skype the grandkids for them, etc.

like a i said a good parent lets the child make their own choices and isn't going to make their child choose what the parents want by resorting to ultimatums

I would agree. Unlike many other Christians, we believe that Gods' commandments are not ultimatums, but warnings.

have any scripture to back that up?

2 Nephi 26:33
33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

huh? is rain a gift?

This is a metaphor, found in many places in the scriptures. Rain and sun and the growing things of the earth are but a few of the things that God has given to everyone, regardless of their obedience.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

alright david letterman, do you have scripture to back that up with?
what did you learn in your previous life, do you even remember?

You want scripture to back up the concept of an afterlife, where there will be no more pain or death? Really?

 

[waitasec]

Wow, good thing we have modern prophets to clear that one up! Yeah, that could be confusing. Incidentally, why do you choose that translation? The "even though" in your translation is highly debatable. There are plenty of other conjunctions that are not nearly so harsh, such as, "I will never again curse the ground because of the human race, because they are young and foolish." That would mean he's cutting us more slack because of our weaknesses.

all right if you want to play the translation game...
what about...

Psalm 14
2The LORD(F) looks down from heaven on the children of man,
 to see if there are any who understand,[a]
 who(G) seek after God.
3They have all turned aside; together they have become(H) corrupt;
 there is none who does good,
 not even one.
ESV

2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
NKJV

Again, this has been clarified elsewhere.

remind me.

Again, this is a poor translation. "Evil," in this sense, means worldly or prone to mistakes. It's supposed to be a parallelism: "If you then, being [imperfect], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your [perfect Father] give the [best gift] to you."

the NASB
NKJV
ESVUK
DARBY
AMP
ASV
all say evil.

 

[waitasec]

And how many petulant teenagers stomp their feet, defy the household rules, and yell, "I hate you?"
and when that happens, what does the good parent do? Pat the kid on the head and say, "that's ok?"

yes...

 

[DeepShadow]

yes...

Actually, I teach a Human Growth and Development class, and we have studied Baumrind's parenting styles. What you are talking about here is called Permissive parenting, and it's not good for the kids.

 

[waitasec]

Yes, but a warning is not an ultimatum.

and what is the warning about...
by definition, ultimatum
implies the threat of serious penalties if the terms are not accepted...
the terms are belief and faith

They didn't need to know what good and evil meant.

that's right, the intention was to keep a & e oblivious of their actions...
so when cain killed his brother he would have remained innocent of his actions and thusly all of mankind is to be oblivious of their actions...
interesting concept.

All they needed to know was that the tree's fruit meant death, and that the choice was theirs. Actually that's a great example of getting a warning and a choice.

death meant being aware of the actions done were either good or evil..
ignorance is bliss...
the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
to a & e god might as well have been saying, if you eat from the tree of glipper and glopper you will surely pluflp.

This was the end of a parable. The actual "beating" does not come from the actual "master."

so? he compares the type of treatment a follower of christ is to get if they are not compliant. nice god you got there.

Huh? Are you asking me who was here before God? The consequences are natural. They predate God.

no...i'm asking who set up the rules for achieving ones salvation

Why not? I'm still in touch with my parents, even now that I'm grown. I call them once a week, we Skype the grandkids for them, etc.

no one lives forever

I would agree. Unlike many other Christians, we believe that Gods' commandments are not ultimatums, but warnings.

warnings of what god set up no less

2 Nephi 26:33
33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

it's hard enough to consider the bible to be a revelation of god so what makes you think the book of nephi will be received that way...
so lets start with the OT or the NT shall we.

This is a metaphor, found in many places in the scriptures. Rain and sun and the growing things of the earth are but a few of the things that God has given to everyone, regardless of their obedience.

Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.[/QUOTE]

what does this have to do with gifts?

You want scripture to back up the concept of an afterlife, where there will be no more pain or death? Really?

no i want you to provide for me scripture in the bible OT or NT
where is stipulates this

and then you go back to Him and talk about what you learned at school that lifetime.