Does God take humanity seriously?

[839311]

How so?

For humans to care about humans, yes, but for God to care about humans... That's like comparing apples to oranges

If God has a good morality, then I would think he would care about us, in the same way that humans care about humans and other life forms. Why don't you think God should care about us?

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

If God has a good morality, then I would think he would care about us, in the same way that humans care about humans and other life forms. Why don't you think God should care about us?

In my spiritual path, detachment is practiced, along with compassion. Look at most of the people around you and try to see them as all the same, caring for each of them equally. It's difficult, so if we can detach ourselves from the desires and emotions clouding our reason, we are left with people as people, all suffering is the same, all confusion equal. Compassion tempers detachment and gives a reason to be humane, to everything, not just humans.

All of the above is to illustrate that one doesn't need to care or take seriously anybody else, but even so they may still be gentle, kind people. Perhaps God is simply letting us be humans, seeing if we can overcome our weaknesses or drown in them. Either way: why should God take it personally enough to make it a bother to God what we do?

 

[Quintessence]

Doing what things? You mean like stopping rain from falling on drought-ridden countries?

In polytheistic traditions, the gods tend to be responsible in one fashion or another for everything that happens, regardless of whether it is labeled as "bad" or "good" by humans. The gods aren't necessarily here to serve human interests. Some of them are, but some of them aren't. The "problems" that plague humanity are as much products of the gods (or gods themselves) as the "blessings" in Pagan religions. We don't have this assumption that the gods must be good, must be benevolent, etc. I have a hard time understanding theologies that do make this assumption, because it is very counterintuitive (e.g., you end up with the "problem of evil").

 

[Pegg]

Our planet has seven billion people, many of whom are starving, or caught in civil wars. Others who live in wealthier parts of the world are greedy and corrupt, only caring about themselves. There are diseases that kill, and diseases that cause billions of people suffering and irritation. Natural disasters sometimes takes the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, some with families and young children. Wars take the lives of millions. Genocide millions more.

While all this is constantly happening, God does nothing. He doesn't lift a finger to stop a natural disaster. He doesn't intervene in genocides, and millions are butchered. Drought stricken countries don't get rain, and while God could make it rain, he doesn't.

we are experiencing the consequences of independence from Gods laws. We chose independence, and we do so daily, by ignoring Gods laws. The world we have today is a world of our own creation, we only have ourselves to blame.

Ecclesiastes 8:9 All this I have seen, and there was an applying of my heart to every work that has been done under the sun, [during] the time that man has dominated man to his injury.

But, we are told that he really does care! He sends us prophets once in a while. So, while we could really use some food in areas where people are starving, or maybe have God eliminate disease from the world, God's idea of helping us out is to send a prophet who will tell us how great and powerful of a guy he is. Gee... thanks.

He sends his prophets to inform mankind of his purpose and plan for the future and to encourage them to live by his laws and become dependent on him. If we submit to him, he will 'make our paths straight' and he will 'care for our needs'

Proverbs 3:1 My son, my law do not forget, and my commandments may your heart observe, 2 because length of days and years of life and peace will be added to you. ...5 Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding. 6 In all your ways take notice of him, and he himself will make your paths straight....Fear Jehovah and turn away from bad. 8 May it become a healing to your navel and a refreshment to your bones.

Ps 37:25 “A young man I used to be, I have also grown old, and yet I have not seen anyone righteous left entirely, nor his offspring looking for bread.”

But, he also allows the creation of hundreds and thousands of mutually exclusive religions to form on earth! How do we know which ones are telling the truth? It would be nice if God came down and told us once and for all, maybe by giving a press conference on video. But has he showed up? No. He is content to let humans remain confused and ignorant as to what he wants, and being forced to resort to faith in one religion or another. Wow, how lucky we are!

he has provided us with his word the bible so that anyone who 'sincerely' seeks him can find him

Luke 11:9 Accordingly I say to YOU, Keep on asking, and it will be given YOU; keep on seeking, and YOU will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to YOU. 10 For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened

He seems content to allow the world to continue to be populated by the stupid, evil, cruel, violent, foolish, and insane, to name but a few of the messed up folks we are so blessed to have on our world - and, God is content to allow genocides, natural disasters, wars, famines, floods, droughts, to name but a few of the massive list of problems that plague our species...

Does God take humanity seriously, at all? Does she care?

through Gods word he tells us that he will not allow these conditions to exist perpetually. He promises to put an end to human rule:
Daniel 2:44 “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite

then he promises to remove all those who do not wish to live peacefully on this earth:
Psalm 37;10 And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more;
And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be.
11 But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace

And he promises to remove sickness and death from mankind:
Revelation 21:4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away


There is so much that he will do for us and by the time he does, we will all come to an agreement that we need his rulership, we need his laws and we need his guidance.

 

[james2ko]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Lets slow down here! I don't remember wanting to live my life without his intervention!

Good for you.. then start obeying Him.

So hes going to hold us responsible for what some ancient people way back did? Oh, swell...

Temporarily. Which is of no consequence if He's going to bring everyone back to life for a do over.

This makes me think of a parent who watches his little child go near fire. The parent says, "Stop youll get burnt!", but the child says "No I won't!" Instead of grabbing the child and restraining it, the parent says, "Fine, have it your way. You can touch the fire all you want, and on top of that Im abandoning you.

Oh I believe He has kept us away from the fire. Without His intervention, we probably would have blown ourselves up long ago.

Now you can live your own life the way you want!" Is this responsible behavior on the parents part? No, it isn't.

Sure it is. That's what I told my son when He turned 18.

Then maybe its time to adjust our genetic code so we don't have as much adrenaline and testosterone pumping through our bodies. We'd be a lot less aggressive then. But, once again, God doesn't lift a finger to help us.

Be patient. He will. He wants to give mankind enough time in the experiment to eliminate the excuse, "but you didn't give us enough time to successfully try it our way".

Gentleman? Ive got some other adjectives for the kind of being your describing.

You mean like merciful and patient.

 

[cablescavenger]

Indeed. God seems to have been all words so far.

I like Woody Allen's asessment
" But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever." :beach:

 

[sojourner]

I think the argument that suffering causes us to grow has some good points. The problem is a matter of degree. For instance, a light amount of suffering might create a situation where the benefits outweigh the negatives. But, an extreme amount of suffering would not. And theres plently of extreme suffering out there.

The suffering that's being talked about here, though, isn't the helpful kind. There's a difference between chosen consequences and victimization. Violence is never helpful or worthy. But the work of self-giving is. And self-giving creates suffering on the part of the giver.

 

[839311]

In my spiritual path, detachment is practiced, along with compassion. Look at most of the people around you and try to see them as all the same, caring for each of them equally. It's difficult, so if we can detach ourselves from the desires and emotions clouding our reason, we are left with people as people, all suffering is the same, all confusion equal. Compassion tempers detachment and gives a reason to be humane, to everything, not just humans.

All of the above is to illustrate that one doesn't need to care or take seriously anybody else

Is it better to care, or not? Does caring make us more active in our efforts to help others, or is it a hindrance? Of those two options, the most useful one is the one that leads to the most positive change. I don't know which one it is. Maybe its different for different people.

 

[839311]

I have a hard time understanding theologies that do make this assumption, because it is very counterintuitive (e.g., you end up with the "problem of evil").

I have found that the problem of evil doesn't exclude the possibility of a good god. I think there are some decent arguments that could be made in favor of it. On the surface it does seem counter-intuitive, and the problem of evil is indeed a problem. Whether or not there is a good all-powerful god who has everything under control and is doing it the right way, I couldn't say. I lack the experience and the understanding to say for sure, as I think every human does.

But, for example, say we are immortal. It may be that eventually we become really bored, and want to experience a life on a world like ours, just the way it is. There are some positives to experiencing life on earth. The challenge, for one thing, which you wouldn't get in paradise, or not in the same way at least. The mystery. And other good things. So, this is one reason why I say I don't have the experience to say for sure, because until we've actually lived for a trillion years in paradise our opinions about what immortality is like are unfounded, baseless, and without any meaning really.

Starvation sucks. But theres ways around that too. The matrix comes to mind, a kind of solipsism where your in a computer simulation of some kind that God has under his control. This would make it far easier to explain things like evil and suffering.

 

[839311]

There is so much that he will do for us and by the time he does, we will all come to an agreement that we need his rulership, we need his laws and we need his guidance.

And what if we dont agree? Is hell already prepared?

 

[839311]

He wants to give mankind enough time in the experiment to eliminate the excuse

Before we master genetic engineering and fix humanity ourselves? That would be kind of funny in a way, and pitiful too on Gods part. Just to be a complete scumbag he would prevent humanity from rising above its genetic flaws and into perfection - without Gods help - so that he could say "I told you so!"

I don't think we need God. His help would be appreciated, maybe. But you know what, after all the suffering and evil that humanity has endured over the thousands and millions of years, maybe the window for allowing God to help us should be closed. Maybe God doesn't deserve to be a part of our world if hes turned his back on humanity for all those eons.

You mean like merciful and patient.

No...No I don't...

 

[839311]

I like Woody Allen's asessment
" But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever." :beach:

If thats all it is, then thats alright. In that case disappointment would be more appropriate haha. Maybe we can motivate God somehow lol

 

[sojourner]

I am pretty comfortable with a God who lacks compassion or interest. Maybe we are just not that important enough to warrant God's special attention.

Do we give much consideration to the health and well-being of a colony bacteria that somehow accidentally rose up out of a swamp 500 miles away in some little backwater that doesn't mean anything?

I know I don't.

You raise a very good point here. You perceive God to lack compassion or interest, and I think it's precisely because we lack compassion and interest. We are the imago Dei. We embody God in the world. We are important to God, but probably not in the way that we've been trained to think.

Most Xtians have been taught that we are the princes and princesses of creation -- that the world has been given to us to use for our purposes. That stance makes us more important than everything else around us. It has caused us to exploit our planet (and other people, who are also viewed as "less important" than we are) to the point where it can no longer sustain us.

It's that sense of entitlement that makes us less important than we really are, and causes us to become self-centered, and therefore, lack compassion.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

If God has a good morality, then I would think he would care about us, in the same way that humans care about humans and other life forms. Why don't you think God should care about us?

Am I immoral just because I am not concerned for the well being of a colony of ants in my backyard?

 

[sojourner]

Am I immoral just because I am not concerned for the well being of a colony of ants in my backyard?

Yes. Why are you more important than the ants?

 

[839311]

Am I immoral just because I am not concerned for the well being of a colony of ants in my backyard?

I don't know. Some people would say you are, some Hindus for instance who try not to hurt any life forms at all and believe that every insect has a soul.

But, there are some big differences between the two examples. First, we are a highly evolved species. We are intelligent. We are figuring out all kinds of things about the cosmos. We can think about things like God, try to understand our experience here on earth in the grand scheme of things. We are a space-faring civilization that could potentially expand across the galaxy some day, but for the time being just in our solar system. Our range of experience is vast. An ants is not. If you were to compare what we can experience vs what God can experience, there would be a lot in common between the two. Comparing Humans to ants, not too much in common, and really nothing in common on the level of complexity.

 

[idav]

If god came down and gave us the correct answers, would we take him seriously or still do whatever we want and learn the hard way?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I don't know. Some people would say you are, some Hindus for instance who try not to hurt any life forms at all and believe that every insect has a soul.

But, there are some big differences between the two examples. First, we are a highly evolved species. We are intelligent. We are figuring out all kinds of things about the cosmos. We can think about things like God, try to understand our experience here on earth in the grand scheme of things. We are a space-faring civilization that could potentially expand across the galaxy some day, but for the time being just in our solar system. Our range of experience is vast. An ants is not. If you were to compare what we can experience vs what God can experience, there would be a lot in common between the two. Comparing Humans to ants, not too much in common, and really nothing in common on the level of complexity.

We are highly evolved species in comparison to what? Ants or god?

 

[Quintessence]

I'm sorry, but whenever I see the phrase "highly evolved" I want to take that person back to school and drill them in the science of evolutionary theory. There is no such thing as "highly evolved." That kind of language presupposes some purposeful or ultimate aim of evolution and there is no such thing. When we say that, it's our anthropocentric egomania talking.

Go read this or something for some details on why this kind of language is scientifically incorrect.

 

[839311]

I'm sorry, but whenever I see the phrase "highly evolved" I want to take that person back to school and drill them in the science of evolutionary theory. There is no such thing as "highly evolved." That kind of language presupposes some purposeful or ultimate aim of evolution and there is no such thing. When we say that, it's our anthropocentric egomania talking.

Go read this or something for some details on why this kind of language is scientifically incorrect.

You don't like it, fine. Its just a phrase. I happen to like it and I think its valid.

As far as Im concerned a species that has figured out genetic engineering and is exploring the other planets in its own solar system qualifies as highly evolved.