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Does The Bible Contain Errors And Contradictions
- Thread starter Charles Philips
- Start date
Oh come now! I've taken you through the very sharp distinctions between the three basic models of Jesus ─ Mark's Jewish male adopted by God as [his] son, not descended from David, Matthew's and Luke's half-Jewish male born of a virgin and said to be descended from David by two ludicrous pretend genealogies for someone else who is certainly not (in that version) Jesus' father; and the Jesus of Paul and the Jesus of John, who pre-existed in heaven with God, created the material universe (regardless of Genesis, and there's as bald a contradiction as you could wish for), and who came to earth in a manner never specified, though since each is said to be descended from David, so we might infer via Jewish parents.
Dear oh dear! For a "prophecy" to be credible, you need ─
─ complete certainty about the identity of the maker, the date and place of the making, and the precise words of the prophecy,
─ a clear and unambiguous "prophecy" capable of being true or false,
─ complete certainty about the manner in which the prophecy "came true",
─ complete certainty that the "coming true" wasn't engineered to comply with the prophecy, or the prophecy rephrased to comply with the "coming true", and
─ independent affirmation on these points.
I can't think of even one "prophecy" in the bible that satisfies this test.
Instead, prophecy is best understood as a political tool, including "prophecies" brought into being retrospectively.
What's your best example of a fulfilled prophecy, and what modern unbiased historian was persuaded by it? Please lay it out for us and show how it complies with the necessary conditions of credibility.
PS A prophecy also needs to be substantial, non-trivial.
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The Spirit of Truth
The Spirit of Truth
Charles, I am unable to find a Byzantine version of the Old Testament, even in a complete list of Bibles. The Bible I mainly use is the KJ approved version. However, I check everything I say in many bibles, including the Hebrew to English Bible, and all except Gen 12:5 confirms my list of errors. I don’t think you can disagree with my claim that most people today, accept the KJV. In any case, the question was, “Is the Bible without errors” and the answer to that is no.
If you want to know which is the best version of the New Testament, there is none; they are all 90+% written by Paul or his disciples, none of which walked with Jesus or with anyone who did. Jesus, the Rod, i.e., The Way, had only seven prophecies to fulfill. He was to be the most righteous man, chosen in Isa 42:1 from the many descendants of Jesse in Isa 11:1a: He was to call the Gentiles in Isa 11:10: He was to be willing to sacrifice His life for our past sins in Isa 53:10 and He was to produce seed, also in Isa 53:10, to enable God to choose The Branch, i.e., The Truth, from in Isa 11:1b. You can also throw in Isa 42:4, because the Isles of the Gentiles certainly did wait for His law or teachings.
After Paul saw an apparition of Jesus on the road to Damascus, he could not help but conclude that Jesus must be God, the son of God or both, and so he reintroduced and taught the Gentiles, polytheism; this was exactly what God has wanted since satan mentally seduced Eve, so as to replace the physical separation of Noah’s two righteous sons, Japheth and Shem, whom He separated in Babylon. God required satan to believe that these pagan barbarian Pauline Christians, would never come to the aid of the Jews if he tried to annihilate them. But they did in 1939 and so satan was grounded. Paul had so enraged the Jews by adulterating the Law of Moses, that they reciprocated the hatred that the Christians felt for the Jews, for crucifying Jesus.
Charles, a prophecy cannot be fulfilled deliberately. The Pauline Christians were merely trying to prove Paul’s claim of divinity for the man Jesus, backed up by usurping Isa 7:14. And by the way, Emmanual does not, and never has meant, “God be with us” or the son of God. Not according to the Hebrews anyway. JC2
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yet the Hebrews (and/or most of the Jews) were likely not blue eyed blonds.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I agree.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
(whew) I was afraid I'd get some backlash...
Glad you agree. Since the Bible says he would not be outstanding in appearance like that, if he were a 6 foot, blue-eyed blond haired man he surely would have been 'different.' I recall the Bible saying he would not be greatly noticeable among men, so he looked "normal." Isaiah 53 foretelling the Messiah:"He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no stately form or majesty to attract us,
no beauty that we should desire Him.
He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief."
(how wonderful...) Are you familiar with Handel's Messiah? I love that oratorio and one of the songs is so beautiful, "He was despised..."
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
(whew) I was afraid I'd get some backlash...
"He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no stately form or majesty to attract us,
no beauty that we should desire Him.
He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief."
(how wonderful...) Are you familiar with Handel's Messiah? I love that oratorio and one of the songs is so beautiful, "He was despised..."
I love Handel and his Messiah!
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Well, your Bible may have 66 books. Mine only has 24
This is just not true. Here is one of a great many:
Genesis 26:31 - Abraham names a place Be'er Sheva.
Genesis 26:33 - Isaac names a place... wait for it... Be'er Sheva
Here is another:
II Kings 8:26
Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he reigned, and one year he reigned in Jerusalem; and his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
II Chronicles 22:2:
Ahaziah was forty-two years old when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem, and his mother's name was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.
Enough said.
This also is sheer imagination. I believe I dealt with this in a separate post to you.
The 24 books of my Bible, the Tanakh (same thing as your Old Testament, but only in Hebrew, in a different order, and certain books combined) say nothing at all about Jesus, and precious little about the Messiah.
First let's just talk about the Old Testament. It was pretty much written by Iron Age city dwellers. But some of the stories are from a time long before that, back in the Bronze Age. What you will find is that the people in these Bronze Age stories cannot be confirmed by any other historical source, whether documents or archeology. This would seem to indicate that these stories are largely, if not entirely, legends rather than history. On the flip side, the Iron Age stories have LOTS of people that we can confirm in outside sources. So these later stories are as good a source of actual history as other historical documents.
Now let's consider your (not mine) New Testament, starting with the four gospels. The earliest gospel to be written was Mark, penned some 40 years after Jesus' death. The gospel of John is that last one written, by around 90-100 CE. The gospels are NOT eye witness accounts, nor were they written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. They are collections of legends about Jesus. I'm sure these legends have a foundation of history to them. The problem is, there is just no way of knowing where the history ends and legend begins.
Historians divide the book of Acts into two sections. The first section seems to also be a collection of legends. However, the second half of Acts appears more to be a diary of travels with Paul, so historians give it a lot more weight.
The epistles, of course, don't seek too relay historical events. They are simply letters of advice written to Churches or individuals.
Revelations is unique. Along with Daniel, they are the only two books that are the apocalyptic genre. There are four views of Revelation. I'm partial to the Preterist position, meaning that the book is entirely about the Jewish Roman war that ended with the destruction of the temple. However, the events are so couched in heavy symbolism, that it really doesn't work as a history book.
I can think of any number, beginning with whatever anonymous person invented the wheel.
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The Spirit of Truth
The Spirit of Truth
Hi Kathryn, the understanding I have received from God, I believe, is that prior to the flood, the descendants of Cain and Seth had not yet met. However, that is when the sons of man, i.e., Cain, saw that the daughters of God, i.e., Seth, were fair, and took them wives of all they chose, and vice versa. During that time, Mrs. No Name Noah was seduced, physically this time by Lamech, satan’s current host, as was Eve, and Noah's wife also produced a ******* son called Ham, knowing both good and evil. After the flood, Ham was the illegitimate stepson of Noah, so God could no more punish him then He could Cain, because they were both hosts of satan; that is why Canaan took the punishment for Ham and it is also why the punishment was so severe, which included giving Canaan's land to Abram for what appeared to be merely an indiscretion. However, both Japheth and Shem were Noah's biological sons, so they were still white and contained the blue eye gene.
When God separated his two righteous sons in Babylon, He sent Shem south of the Mediterranean Sea, closely followed by Ham/satan. Japheth, He sent north of the Med. Sea so that Ham/satan could only follow one or the other. Therefore, the Island people of the Gentiles would still have been blue eyed and blond, as were the Aryans. Shem's descendants on the other hand, intermarried willingly or unwillingly, with some of the dark eyed descendants of Ham, i.e., Cain. However, the bible shows that the line of Judah never took wives from Ham and therefore maintained the blue eyes right up until the birth of Jesus; that is why it is most likely that Jesus would have been blue eyed and fair skinned. However, because other descendants of Jacob would also not have intermarried with Ham's descendants, Jesus would not have been that unusual, and could otherwise have been quite plain, aesthetically. JC2
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PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Not really. God can decide not to know everything.
@Charles Philips
Just so you know if I met you on the street I wouldn't be afraid of you or your puny petty God that was too impotent to throw me in hell before I was born in my view.
Just so you know if I met you on the street I wouldn't be afraid of you or your puny petty God that was too impotent to throw me in hell before I was born in my view.
MelancholicPotatoChip
Member
I was fixing to ask if there are documentations of autism going back centuries before we started polluting the water and food with harsh chemicals and the like.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The reason that we see more autism now is that our testing has improved. Doctors can detect more minor examples of it today. It did not even "exist" before 1911, that was the first time that the term was used, but it was not even recognized as a separate condition until the 1940's. Of course there was autism before that but we have no way of knowing how much. But it is generally recognized that the rise in autism is merely due to experts being more familiar with it and having the ability to diagnose it. No one has shown any tie with any chemicals.
History of Autism: When Was Autism First Diagnosed?
While the awareness of autism has grown in recent years, the history of autism actually goes back much further than most people realize. In this article, we will take a look at the history of autism and when it was first diagnosed.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
These would have been the children left behind to die in the elements -- the demon possessed, the changlings, etc. It would be impossible to find documentation on a condtion, among many, not recognized as being medical. Even anthrax, dysentery, TB, dwarfism, etc., etc., are not "documented" before they were eventually identified.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Interesting article on dwarfism:
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
The Holy Bible of the Cartoonishly Evil
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
They are not pointing to specific years. The exception is the birth of JC.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How do you think an all-knowing God can decide not to know everything?
firedragon
Veteran Member
You know that's logically impossible. It's like saying a square can decide to be a square and a circle at the same time. In logic this is called an alalytical truth, that it's a logical impossibility. That means you don't even have to look or think twice. It's fallacious.