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Does the day of Christ ressurection tell us to worship on Sunday?

Catholicjeff

New Member
And all I'm saying is that the Third Commandment (or Fourth for the Protestants) says "the seventh day" specifically. It's all fine and good if you think that the Resurrection means that you should make Sunday a day of rest (though I'd ask you to tell us how that actually works - AFAIK, there's nothing in the New Testament where God says "start worshipping on Sunday now because of the Resurrection"), but I don't think it works for you to appeal to the Third Commandment as your reason for worshipping on Sunday.

If Jesus' Resurrection implies that Christians should worship on Sunday AND the Old Law hasn't been abolished, then it seems to me that the result of all this would be that Christians should have TWO obligatory days of worship every week: Saturday to honour the Old Law AND Sunday to honour Christ.

What doesn't work is to argue, effectively, that because of Jesus, seven equals one.
2 Corinthians 5:17 - "So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come." IF the original command for a day of rest was linked to the Creation, and IF there is a "new creation", then it stands to reason that a new day of rest would be linked to that new creation, which came into effect when Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead on the first day of the week. Also, there has been a lot of work done on eighth day theology, and what the eighth day means in the Jewish Scriptures and how that eighth day is fulfilled by Jesus Christ. So if it is true that seven does not equal one, it is safe to say that the first day of the week is also the eighth day.
 

Catholicjeff

New Member
Rather it was not until the time of Constantine who decreed Sunday a day of rest for all except farmers.
It is true that in 321 Constantine ordered that Sunday should become a public holiday. It is also true that already in New Testament times Sunday began to replace the Jewish Sabbath. Christians were worshiping on Sunday long before Constantine's decree. I think it is important to recognize that his decree came as a result of the Christian day of worship. Sunday as a day of worship did NOT come about as a result of his decree.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
2 Corinthians 5:17 - "So whoever is in Christ is a new creation: the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come." IF the original command for a day of rest was linked to the Creation, and IF there is a "new creation", then it stands to reason that a new day of rest would be linked to that new creation, which came into effect when Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead on the first day of the week. Also, there has been a lot of work done on eighth day theology, and what the eighth day means in the Jewish Scriptures and how that eighth day is fulfilled by Jesus Christ. So if it is true that seven does not equal one, it is safe to say that the first day of the week is also the eighth day.

"It stands to reason..."?


It seems to me that what you're really arguing is that God would have very good reasons to issue a new commandment saying "from now on, worship on the first day, not on the seventh like I told you before."

So... did he do this?

And if he did, wouldn't he be "abolishing" part of the Old Law, which you said he didn't do?
 

crystalonyx

Well-Known Member
"Does the day of Christ ressurection tell us to worship on Sunday? "

What was the day of the ressurection? I don't believe I've seen any calendars in the NT.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
That is true. The Law says "the seventh day". However, in my first post I pointed out that the reason for observing a day of rest that is given in Exodus 20 is because God created the world in six days and rested on the seventh. The reason that is given in Deuteronomy 5 is that God delivered the Israelites from bondage in Egypt. When Jesus Christ rose from the dead on the first day of the week, he brought with that Resurrection both a new creation and a new deliverance from bondage. All I am saying is that nothing has changed in the fact that the reason for observing a day of rest is still linked to a creation and a deliverance from bondage.

C-Jeff, the original of Ex.20:8-11 is Gen.2:1-3. Jesus confirms that in Mark 2:27-28 in saying that HE as the Creator of all things(John 1:1-3) IS the LORD of the Sabbath and that Sabbath was made for man(kind). There is nothing "Blessed nor Sanctified" about the first day of the week. All the Changes was done by/on the authority of man. The delieverance from Egyptian seen in Deut.5 was in the recapitulation of the events which happened 40years earlier.
The Israelites and the "Mixed Multitude" which left Egypt were re-introduced to the Seventh day Sabbath even before Moses met with GOD on Sinai. (Ex.16, 23, 27-30)

It wasn't just a "rest/recuperation from labor", but as seen in Lev.23:1-3 a holy Convocation(assemblage togather in worship of the Creator GOD.).

Neither Jesus nor any of the disciples give any authority to substitute any parts of Jesus' death, burial, or resurrection to take the place of GOD's Sabbath and the Acknowledgement that GOD is Lord of all of Creation.
Jesus is the "Lamb slain before the foundation of the world". Had Jesus NOT died there could be NO Resurrection. HIS Crucifixion is just as necessary to the plan of salvation as is the Resurrection. Neither day is stressed to replace the Weekly Seventh Day Sabbath.
And of the "bread and wine" where it was said to "do this in rememberance of me". It was in the "death"/"broken body" which was substituted for you(ALL) and me.
Since HE(Jesus) was resurrected---
Then we have the word(assurance) of GOD that all who follow HIS WILL and instructions will ,also, be resurrected.

SO, YES, Changes have been made.
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
You continue to rehash your illogical premise. The overwhelming evidence I've presented in this thread and just rememb this one speaks for itself and there's more. But I'll stop for now as I see you are struggling with what has already been presented. Carry on with your Friday to Sunday Easter tradition. But er, you cannot claim ignorance in the judgment.

Yes, you do, and therefore my same scriptural true answers.
Since my answers are from the Scripture and not conjecture, I don't fear the Judgment. Thanks, for the discussion.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Yes, you do, and therefore my same scriptural true answers. Since my answers are from the Scripture and not conjecture, I don't fear the Judgment. Thanks, for the discussion.

Conjecture is rather simple to refute, right? You can start by replying to the post here. In particular, point #2.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I have never had Jesus say to me to go to a church that worships on Saturday nor has he upbraided me about Sunday worship.

So my question is whether it is better to denigrate Jesus in order to see the law as better than God as the Pharisees did or honor Jesus even though the law doesn't prescribe it. Which would Jesus prefer that you honor the law or Him?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I have never had Jesus say to me to go to a church that worships on Saturday nor has he upbraided me about Sunday worship.

So my question is whether it is better to denigrate Jesus in order to see the law as better than God as the Pharisees did or honor Jesus even though the law doesn't prescribe it. Which would Jesus prefer that you honor the law or Him?

Is it an either/or matter? What's wrong with honouring Jesus on Saturday?

In the Gospels (Matthew especially, IIRC), it seems to me that Jesus isn't saying to forget the law, but to be true to the purpose of the law while obeying it rather than just going through the motions.

Edit: I've never had Jesus tell me to do anything at all. Does this mean I'm free to do whatever I want?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
We've had this discussion in the past. It's about time we revisit it:

God rested from his 'creative works' on his 7th rest day which is still ongoing today as it was on going in the apostle Paul's day. -Hebrews 4 vs 4-10 Resting from creative works [creating] does not mean in connection to stopping or resting from all works. Just as Jesus said that his Father works and so does Jesus. -John 5 v 17; 6 vs 27-29

1. To say He ceased from His creative works but not other works is a play on words to justify the seventh day is ongoing. Heb 4:4 "God did rest [not is resting] the seventh day from all His works.". If the seventh day were ongoing in Paul's time, He should have been inspired to write in the present not the past tense.

. -Hebrews 4 vs 4-10

2.. Do you realize Heb 4:8-9 is actually commanding us to keep the seventh day Sabbath?

While on Earth didn't Jesus refer to himself as Lord of the Sabbath? -Matt. 12 v 8

3. Sure He did. He, Paul, and the rest of His disciples set the example by keeping it. which we should be imitating. (1 Co 11:1)

The literal Jewish Sabbath day was just a 'shadow of things to come'.

4. The sabbath was and is not exclusive to the Jews. It was for the benefit of all mankind.

Mar 2:27 And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man [not just the jews], and not man for the Sabbath.​

-Col. 2 vs 16,17 A 'shadow' is not the real thing but a substance of something.

5. see point 3 here http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/2553563-post40.html

Armed with the correct historical context, this passage does not prove the sabbath and holy days were done away. It actually implies we should be keeping them! Notice how Heb 8:5 uses the same Greek word for "shadow" as something worth imitating or copying:

Heb 8:3 And since every high priest is required to offer gifts and sacrifices, our High Priest must make an offering, too.
Heb 8:4 If He were here on earth, He would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law.
Heb 8:5 They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: "Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I have shown you here on the mountain." (NLT)

In connection with 'things to come' [future] there is a Sabbath in which Jesus is said to be 'Lord'. As 'Lord of Lords' Jesus will rule all earth for a 1000 years.- Rev. 19 v16; 20 v 6

6. Here's something we can agree on.

During Jesus time on earth, didn't Jesus perform some of his most outstanding powerful works on the Sabbath?
-Luke 13 vs10-13; John 5 vs 5-9; 9 vs 1-14Those Sabbath works were showing us on a sample small scale just what Jesus will be doing [future] on a LARGE or GRAND scale, when Jesus brings mankind to spiritual and physical healthy human perfection of having a perfectly healthy sound heart, mind and body during his coming messianic 1000-year reign over earth, or earthly subjects of God's kingdom, which will be like a period [millennial] Sabbath rest for both earth and mankind.
-Psalm 72 v 8

7. May God speed that day!
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
LOL all this hype about the seventh day vs the first day makes me laugh, because most European calendars start on Monday and Sunday IS the seventh day.

Just order your calendars European style and drive on.

By the way, the ISO has the week starting on Mondays with Sunday as the seventh day of the week as well.

Just sayin'.

http://www.iso.org/iso/home.htm
 
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james2ko

Well-Known Member
LOL all this hype about the seventh day vs the first day makes me laugh, because most European calendars start on Monday and Sunday IS the seventh day. Just order your calendars European style and drive on. By the way, the ISO has the week starting on Mondays with Sunday as the seventh day of the week as well.

Then we must ask ourselves under what authority did these organizations change what God established and sanctified since creation? Additionally, if the day of the week we are commanded to keep holy is arbitrary, why would He bother giving a specific day on when it should be kept?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Then we must ask ourselves under what authority did these organizations change what God established and sanctified since creation? Additionally, if the day of the week we are commanded to keep holy is arbitrary, why would He bother giving a specific day on when it should be kept?
By God's authority, same as the people who set up the Sabbath in the first place.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
By God's authority, same as the people who set up the Sabbath in the first place.

Not the real God of the bible who, through the Jewish people,(Rom 3:1-2) has preserved the seven day week which designates Saturday as the seventh day.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Not the real God of the bible who, through the Jewish people,(Rom 3:1-2) has preserved the seven day week which designates Saturday as the seventh day.
So...
the God of the early Church Fathers wasn't the "real God-of-the-Bible???
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
So...
the God of the early Church Fathers wasn't the "real God-of-the-Bible???

I do not believe many of the early Church Fathers were under the influence of the real God-of-the-bible. But let's not digress and get back to the question relating to the topic. If the day of the week we are commanded to keep holy is arbitrary, why would He bother giving a specific day when it should be kept?
 
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sincerly

Well-Known Member
LOL all this hype about the seventh day vs the first day makes me laugh, because most European calendars start on Monday and Sunday IS the seventh day.

Just order your calendars European style and drive on.

By the way, the ISO has the week starting on Mondays with Sunday as the seventh day of the week as well.

Just sayin'.

ISO - International Organization for Standardization

Hi Kathryn, I don't recall Iso.org having a voice in the Scriptures. There is a Creator GOD who made all things and HE specifically stated the seventh day of Creation week as HIS Blessed and Sanctified Sabbath Day.

No matter where one tries to relocate that Day, it will always be the "Seventh Day of the Creative Week." Sunday will always the First day of creative week.

"just saying..." It isn't a calendar thing, but "Thus saith the LORD" thing.
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Hi Kathryn, I don't recall Iso.org having a voice in the Scriptures. There is a Creator GOD who made all things and HE specifically stated the seventh day of Creation week as HIS Blessed and Sanctified Sabbath Day.

No matter where one tries to relocate that Day, it will always be the "Seventh Day of the Creative Week." Sunday will always the First day of creative week.

"just saying..." It isn't a calendar thing, but "Thus saith the LORD" thing.


But what's the first day of the week, or the last day of the week? You're missing my point entirely.

It's one day out of seven to rest in God's honor. Which day is first, which day is last? Consider the changes made in the calendar - Gregorian, Julian, European, American, what? We don't even know where days have been added and taken away since biblical times - we've lost track. I mean I guess you could try to figure it out (I'm sure it's been tried before) - but have you?

Or are you just taking someone else's word for it?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
But what's the first day of the week, or the last day of the week? You're missing my point entirely.

Leading astronomers know the difference:

"I have always hesitated to suggest breaking the continuity of the week, which without a doubt is the most ancient scientific institution bequeathed to us by antiquity" (Edouard Baillaud, "The Report," p. 52. [Baillaud was Director of the Paris Observatory.]).

"There has been no change in our calendar in past centuries that has affected in any way the cycle of the week" (James Robertson, personal letter, dated March 12, 1932. [Dr. Robertson was Director of the American Ephemeris, Navy Dept., U.S. Naval Observatory, Washington, D.C.]).

"As far as I know, in the various changes of the Calendar there has been no change in the seven day rota of the week, which has come down from very early times” (F.W. Dyson, personal letter, dated March 4, 1932. [Dr. Dyson was Astronomer Royal, Royal Observatory, Greenwich, London.]).

"The week of seven days has been in use ever since the days of the Mosaic dispensation, and we have no reason for supposing that any irregularities have existed in the succession of weeks and their days from that time to the present" (Dr. W.W. Campbell, Statement. [Dr. Campbell was Director of Lick Observatory, Mt. Hamilton, California.]).​

The mother church seems to know "what time it is" also:

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that isthe 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."- Catholic Virginian, “To Tell You the Truth," p. 9, Oct. 3, 1947"

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day—Saturday—for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day? I answer no!"- James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), signed letter​

The Protestants know too:

"The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a Divine command in this respect, far from them, and from the early apostolic Church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday." - Dr. Augustus Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, Henry John Rose’s translation, p. 186, 1843

"But they err in teaching that Sunday has taken the place of the Old Testament Sabbath and therefore must be kept as the seventh day had to be kept by the children of Israel.... These churches err in their teaching, for Scripture has in no way ordained the first day of the week in place of the Sabbath. There is simply no law in the New Testament to that effect." - John Theodore Mueller, Sabbath or Sunday, pp. 15, 16

It's one day out of seven to rest in God's honor. Which day is first, which day is last? Consider the changes made in the calendar - Gregorian, Julian, European, American, what? We don't even know where days have been added and taken away since biblical times - we've lost track. I mean I guess you could try to figure it out (I'm sure it's been tried before) - but have you? Or are you just taking someone else's word for it?

The conversion from the Julian (created in 31BC) to Gregorian did not break the weekly cycle. Notice how they simply added 11 days from the 4th to the 15th but kept the weekly cycle in tact:



And so we see that the calendar that has been in effect since 31 BC.-prior to the birth of Christ, proves that there has never been any change in the weekly cycle from the time of Christ to now. The Saturday of today is the same Seventh day of the week as it was in Christ's time. We can, therefore, be sure we keep the same Sabbath day Christ kept, setting us an example and confirming the day He claimed to be Lord of (Mark 2:28).
 
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