Does the universe need intelligence to order it?

[godnotgod]

It begins in the beginning....noting Genesis.....
and the a God able to say....I AM!

Someone had to be first.

In the beginning there was Nothing, which exploded.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Therefore, I post as I believe.

I would hope that we all do.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

* 'without realizing the background of perfect balance' is the state of being enlightened, but not realizing it, which is the state of consciousness of most of mankind, whose attention is driven by the three lower centers of consciousness: Power, Sensation, and Security, which are addictions. Only via the Fourth Level of Consciousness, that of Love, can these three Addictions be transformed into Preferences.

Here you have tagged on something entirely different to the original Zen quote in order to suggest it means something else. Again it's misrepresentation, adding in a meaning which is not actually present.
Where did you get these ideas from? Or have you just made them up? Please clearly explain what you mean by "Power", "Sensation", "Security" and "Fourth Level of Consciousness"

Please don't keep dropping in this new-age style jargon without explaining it properly. It's like you have made up a language all of your own and expect the rest of us to read your mind. That isn't a reasonable way to have a discussion.
If you're not willing to explain your jargon then please stop using it here.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

We see Zen students, for example, initially having delusional experiences (life-like hallucinations called 'makyo') all the time in the temples,

Who is "we"? How much time have you spent in Zen temples? Again it would be nice to hear you talk from actual personal experience rather than something you read in a book.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

And it is for this reason that the sage entertains no preferences.

I had some nice sage-and-onion stuffing with my Christmas dinner - have you tried it? Or is that not your preference?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

In the beginning there was Nothing, which exploded.

Thus spake the Lord.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But Is it possible to experience a certainty about Reality without being able to prove any of it?

One might expect an intelligible description, free from jargon, cliche and mumbo-jumbo.

 

[godnotgod]

Here you have tagged on something entirely different to the original Zen quote in order to suggest it means something else. Again it's misrepresentation, adding in a meaning which is not actually present.
Where did you get these ideas from? Or have you just made them up? Please clearly explain what you mean by "Power", "Sensation", "Security" and "Fourth Level of Consciousness"

Please don't keep dropping in this new-age style jargon without explaining it properly. It's like you have made up a language all of your own and expect the rest of us to read your mind. That isn't a reasonable way to have a discussion.
If you're not willing to explain your jargon then please stop using it here.

Nah, not going to submit to your silly demands. I am afraid you'll just have to learn to use your intelligence to try to understand the words I posted as they stand. The Zen quote says what it says, and my commentary is an extension of it, which you will SEE if you learn how to read. There's nothing confounding about it; it's quite simple, really.

Now, if anyone is 'tagging things on to something', it is you with your incessant barrage of accusations of New Age this and that, which is your standard Jerk of Knee response to things that don't fit into your neat little airtight system of SafeThink.

Power, Sensation, and Security are the first three levels of consciousness, with Love being the fourth, in one system of classification. Each of the four labels are self explanatory, if you take the time to use your head and think a bit. If you really want to know more, I refer you to:

Handbook To Higher Consciousness, by Ken Keyes, available used, for a song, here:

http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Higher-Consciousness-Ken-Keyes/dp/0960068880

 

[godnotgod]

I would hope that we all do.

I would hope that we don't!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Nah, not going to submit to your silly demands. I am afraid you'll just have to learn to use your intelligence to try to understand the words I posted as they stand. The Zen quote says what it says, and my commentary is an extension of it, which you will SEE if you learn how to read. There's nothing confounding about it; it's quite simple, really.

No, you have misrepresented Zen yet again by pretending it links to this latest set of new-age ideas you have dumped into the discussion without explanation. Are you seriously suggesting we have all got to buy and read this new-age book by Ken Keyes in order to continue the discussion?

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.

I am still waiting to hear about your personal experience of Zen temples and all the meditation you have done.

 

[godnotgod]

Who is "we"? How much time have you spent in Zen temples? Again it would be nice to hear you talk from actual personal experience rather than something you read in a book.

It's none of your business and of little interest to you and irrelevant to the discussion. All you should be concerned about is the content of the post, which I assume you understood, which is what Zen students experience as makyo. That is all. Cease and desist from biting my finger, and focus on the moon instead. Otherwise...

Go to your room.

 

[godnotgod]

I had some nice sage-and-onion stuffing with my Christmas dinner - have you tried it? Or is that not your preference?

I follow the Buddha, who has no preference.

 

[godnotgod]

Thus spake the Lord.

No one spracketh crap. You're hearing voices again. Security!

 

[YmirGF]

Here you have tagged on something entirely different to the original Zen quote in order to suggest it means something else. Again it's misrepresentation, adding in a meaning which is not actually present.
Where did you get these ideas from? Or have you just made them up? Please clearly explain what you mean by "Power", "Sensation", "Security" and "Fourth Level of Consciousness"

Please don't keep dropping in this new-age style jargon without explaining it properly. It's like you have made up a language all of your own and expect the rest of us to read your mind. That isn't a reasonable way to have a discussion.
If you're not willing to explain your jargon then please stop using it here.

It took awhile to isolate, but it would appear that he is drawing from the work of Robert S. de Ropp.
Mildy interesting stuff and an easy read.

He hasn't cited the source for this particular text, but has mentioned the Master Game: Beyond the Drug Experience before.

 

[godnotgod]

One might expect an intelligible description, free from jargon, cliche and mumbo-jumbo.

Well STFU and listen, then!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I follow the Buddha,

But you don't, you follow all sorts of new-age teachers like this Ken Keyes bloke. You pretend that Buddhism validates your idiosyncratic views but it doesn't. You clearly have a very limited understanding of Buddhism anyway

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Well STFU and listen, then!

I've been listening for some time now and it's exhausting.

 

[godnotgod]

It took awhile to isolate, but it would appear that he is drawing from the work of Robert S. de Ropp. Mildy interesting stuff and an easy read.

He hasn't cited the source for this particular text, but has mentioned the Master Game: Beyond the Drug Experience before.

Wrong, though I have cited that source before. I am referring to 'Handbook To Higher Consciousness', by Ken Keyes, to whioch I already provided a link, a couple posts back.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

All you should be concerned about is the content of the post, which I assume you understood, which is what Zen students experience as makyo.

How is that even relevant to the discussion? Please talk from personal experience for a change, we can all parrot something in a book, so what?
You keep chucking in Zen cliches, but have you even done zazen on a regular basis? Please tell us.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

STFU

Play nicely or you won't get any sage and onion stuffing.