Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?

[Jainarayan]

But I do recognise that not everything in it applies all of the time and in every place.

Indeed, that's the very thing that we're talking about here. Scriptures can't be fossilized in the time that they were written; they have to adapt. If they don't adapt they die and are useless. There are a lot of rules and regulations in Manu Smrti of Hinduism that are just so ridiculous today.

Some people do believe they should be adhered to literally, but I don't see how they can be. There are things in the Vedas that don't work today either, but there are other things that are timeless to Hindus; it doesn't mean that the Vedas are false or useless. Rather, they adapted over time and are still considered apauruṣeya, literally "not of a man", i.e. of divine origin.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Most Hindus here are also atheists so go figure that one out lol

That is not correct, Tomorrows_Child. Most here are from some denomination of Vaishnavas. There are a few Shaktas and Shaivas. There are smartas for whom all Gods and Goddesses are equal. A few are atheists also (I am one of them and one of the most vocal but not an anti-theist).

 

[Aupmanyav]

In Veda about 100% priests were brahmins.

Sure, anyone who learns Vedas along with other scriptures and acts according to 'dharma' is surely a brahmin irrespective of the family in which he/she was born. Vishwamitra was a Kshatriya (warrior clan, son of a king), Janaka was a king, Vedavyasa was the son of a fisherwoman, Satyakama was the son of a prostitute and did not know the name of his father. Valmiki, the writer of Ramayana, was a chandala (out-caste). They were all brahmins. When a Yaksha (rough equivalent of a Jinn in Hinduism) asked Pandava Prince Yudhisthir as to who was a brahmin, Yudhishthir said this:

The Yaksha asked: What constitutes the divinity of the Brahmanas? What even is their practice that is like that of the pious? What also is the human attribute of the Brahmanas? And what practice of theirs is like that of the impious?

Yudhishthira answered: The study of the Vedas constitutes their divinity: their asceticism constitutes behavior that is like that of the pious; their liability to death is their human attribute and slander is their impiety.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion/article1958.ece

 

[paarsurrey]

Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?

I understand that the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people may believe Vedas or another Hinduism or any other religious scripture just because of these helping to understand the culture and social thoughts of the people, otherwise they are engaged in their own pursuits of interests or busy reading/not reading their own "X" scripture, that in way establishes with 100% accuracy that these have no significance for a believer who reads them.
It is for this the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people club one or two or some religions besides their own Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism .They don't necessarily have to read these as is evident. Right? Please
For them concise scripture is no needed, I may understand. But the Believers of Vedas as God's revealed Scripture of Word or God could be useful for a convenient overview. Right?
Any believer/s here who has read Vedas, all of these. Please
Regards

 

[SomeRandom]

Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?

I understand that the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people may believe Vedas or another Hinduism or any other religious scripture just because of these helping to understand the culture and social thoughts of the people, otherwise they are engaged in their own pursuits of interests or busy reading/not reading their own "X" scripture, that in way establishes with 100% accuracy that these have no significance for a believer who reads them.
It is for this the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people club one or two or some religions besides their own Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism .They don't necessarily have to read these as is evident. Right? Please
For them concise scripture is no needed, I may understand. But the Believers of Vedas as God's revealed Scripture of Word or God could be useful for a convenient overview. Right?
Any believer/s here who has read Vedas, all of these. Please
Regards

God is just a label. Belief of God is not required to be a Hindu.
If one "believes" in the Cosmos they can interpret Scripture as philosophy for life. Science doesn't have to preclude religious beliefs. Neither does religion have to be so unreasonable as to reject reality in favour of a mystical being.

 

[LuisDantas]

Don't the Hinduism (Dharmic) people need a concise Scripture?

I understand that the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people may believe Vedas or another Hinduism or any other religious scripture just because of these helping to understand the culture and social thoughts of the people, otherwise they are engaged in their own pursuits of interests or busy reading/not reading their own "X" scripture, that in way establishes with 100% accuracy that these have no significance for a believer who reads them.
It is for this the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people club one or two or some religions besides their own Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism .They don't necessarily have to read these as is evident. Right? Please
For them concise scripture is no needed, I may understand. But the Believers of Vedas as God's revealed Scripture of Word or God could be useful for a convenient overview. Right?
Any believer/s here who has read Vedas, all of these. Please
Regards

You will have a lot of trouble understanding both religion and atheism-skepticism for as long as you remain so attached to the false idea that religion needs god-belief, @paarsurrey

 

[Vinayaka]

You will have a lot of trouble understanding both religion and atheism-skepticism for as long as you remain so attached to the false idea that religion needs god-belief, @paarsurrey

To understand anything outside your own subconscious box, or inherent nature, can only be an intellectual understanding. For true understanding to occur, you have to experience it, not just read about it. That is why I will never understand Christianity (in this life). Even if I tried to experience it, it would always remain from my Hindu subconscious POV. I'd walk into a church, and look for a place to prostate, a place where I could set flowers, and wonder why the heck I had to sit on benches instead of on the floor. Same thing for atheism. I couldn't really ever get that either. God would always be there, no matter how hard I tried to deny it.

So asking for understanding is nigh impossible. However, remaining in the intellect, there are still degrees of 'understanding' based on things like language level, willingness to try, and all that. There is also the intellectual and deeper emotional feeling that its just all right to be different. That we can get from observation, etc.

 

[atanu]

To understand anything outside your own subconscious box, or inherent nature, can only be an intellectual understanding. For true understanding to occur, you have to experience it, not just read about it. That is why I will never understand Christianity (in this life). Even if I tried to experience it, it would always remain from my Hindu subconscious POV. I'd walk into a church, and look for a place to prostate, a place where I could set flowers, and wonder why the heck I had to sit on benches instead of on the floor. Same thing for atheism. I couldn't really ever get that either. God would always be there, no matter how hard I tried to deny it.

So asking for understanding is nigh impossible. However, remaining in the intellect, there are still degrees of 'understanding' based on things like language level, willingness to try, and all that. There is also the intellectual and deeper emotional feeling that its just all right to be different. That we can get from observation, etc.

Also, one never knows what future may have in store.

 

[Vinayaka]

Also, one never knows what future may have in store.

True, and one actually can erase and alter the subconscious mind, but that's another story and process altogether. It is much easier at a young age, and takes tremendous effort, meditation, cleansing processes, and much more. There is no magic eraser that can come along and wipe out that whole thing in one big sweep. It will linger in the recesses of mind. Some people try to gloss over it, or cover it up, but it will rear its head again in relaxed or desperate moments, as soon as you're off guard.

Change is gradual.

 

[paarsurrey]

That is one aspect. I intend to read all the four or some say three which were all together only ONE in the origin . My intention is to make them one again with the consensus and the consent, if possible, of my Hinduism friends/brothers and of course others here also.
Regards

You won't have such consent. The reason being that you have given none of the Hindus here any reason to believe that you have any interest other than to selectively quote-mine and twist Hindu scriptures and force them into your pre-existing Ahmadiyaa worldview. You can do whatever you like, but don't expect consent, even from a liberal Hindu like me.

By consent I mean consent in creating one concise scripture. I already know what it will be. It will be a selectively quote-mined compilation of a few passages which, when one squints hard enough, can be read into the Ahmadiyaa theology, with 99% of everything else omitted, being dismissed as "corruption."

Whatever.

Vedas Scripture- The Compressed One

I wish that the ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish the Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is produced which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information, please.

The planning is like:

1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept as it is.
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primary derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, so it should be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating that.
3.I am reading Yajurveda as one knows and now I nearing its end. It has total 500+ pages. I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed for an ordinary man and only references provided in the original one.
4.I get a clue from post #18 , in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Hinduism, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Hinduism. Right?
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends in Hinduism help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself.
6. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, hence, these parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else.#52

Anybody, please

Regards

#228,229,230, 345, #315,#391

 

[SomeRandom]

Vedas Scripture- The Compressed One

I wish that the ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish the Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is produced which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information, please.

The planning is like:

1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept as it is.
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primary derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, so it should be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating that.
3.I am reading Yajurveda as one knows and now I nearing its end. It has total 500+ pages. I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed for an ordinary man and only references provided in the original one.
4.I get a clue from post #18 , in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Hinduism, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Hinduism. Right?
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends in Hinduism help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself.
6. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, hence, these parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else.#52

Anybody, please

Regards

#228,229,230, 345, #315,#391

Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record when told repeatedly that this is not a thing Hindus generally accept. You know repeating the same process expecting a different result is the definition of insanity? (E-Cookie for anyone who gets that reference. )

 

[paarsurrey]

Why do you keep repeating yourself like a broken record when told repeatedly that this is not a thing Hindus generally accept. You know repeating the same process expecting a different result is the definition of insanity? (E-Cookie for anyone who gets that reference. )

Now I understand that not all Hinduism people believe in Vedas as Hinduism has lately ceased to be one cohesive religion, and has become a conglomerate of many religions, and strangely enough many Atheism people also use it as an Umbrella. My primary interest is in Vedas as an ancient Word of G-d. So I am only compressing Vedas as a Revealed Scripture, to start with. Later I may develop interest in other religions in Hinduism, if any part/s of them claims to have a revealed Scripture of them other than Vedas. Right? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

God would always be there, no matter how hard I tried to deny it.

So, one is a believer in God and I appreciate it. Now, does one know attributes of God as mentioned in Yajurveda? These are not less than a 100 or so, as I have observed. Right? Please
Any other believer in Vedas as Word of God. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Also, one never knows what future may have in store.

Only God know as to what happened in the past, as to what is happening in the Universe presently and as to what will happen in future, as per Vedas:

Yajurveda CHAPTER XXXIII (33) Verse 79.

79. O Mighty God, Thy nature is matchless. Among the learned
sages not one is found Thy equal,
Thou wast never born, nor is born. None can comprehend what
Thou hast done or shalt do.

https://archive.org/stream/yajurveda029670mbp/yajurveda029670mbp_djvu.txt
Please
Regards

 

[SomeRandom]

Now I understand that not all Hinduism people believe in Vedas as Hinduism has lately ceased to be one cohesive religion, and has become a conglomerate of many religions, and strangely enough many Atheism people also use it as an Umbrella. My primary interest is in Vedas as an ancient Word of G-d. So I am only compressing Vedas as a Revealed Scripture, to start with. Later I may develop interest in other religions in Hinduism, if any part/s of them claims to have a revealed Scripture of them other than Vedas. Right? Please
Regards

It always was a conglomerate of many religions.
Some Hindus even reject the title of Hindu. Because when the British empire saw these sort of rural religions, they just called them all Hindu without regard for the various nuances. So some consider the word Hindu to be a misrepresentation of their beliefs to begin with. Oversimplifying a range of various beliefs and interpretations to be lazy. Which is what I think you're doing with the Vedas. The Vedas is not supposed to be compressed. It's supposed to be bathed in. You do what you want, just know that this very liberal and often tolerant Hindu thinks you're belittling, diluting and otherwise oversimplifying holy scripture. And bear in mind I didn't even take issue with Blizzard (video game company) using a Hindu deity like a mere plaything.

 

[paarsurrey]

God is just a label. Belief of God is not required to be a Hindu.
If one "believes" in the Cosmos they can interpret Scripture as philosophy for life. Science doesn't have to preclude religious beliefs. Neither does religion have to be so unreasonable as to reject reality in favour of a mystical being.

Yes, in the present scenario when some Atheism people insist to use it as an umbrella term, it may not., yet there are others like Vinayka who are Hindu and believe in God. God is a reality, but there is no compulsion to believe in Him, yet He exists. Right? One may like to read post #407 by her.
Regards

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, in the present scenario when some Atheism people insist to use it as an umbrella term, it may not., yet there are others like Vinayka who are Hindu and believe in God. God is a reality, but there is no compulsion to believe in Him, yet He exists. Right? One may like to read post #407 by her.
Regards

Hinduism has always been an unbrella term. It is by no means a novelty, nor is it particularly linked to atheism.

Also, please understand that there is a world of difference between a religion that expects god-belief and one that simply accepts it.

You are fantasizing a Hindu history that has little connection to reality.

 

[Vinayaka]

Now I understand that not all Hinduism people believe in Vedas as Hinduism has lately ceased to be one cohesive religion, and has become a conglomerate of many religions, and strangely enough many Atheism people also use it as an Umbrella. My primary interest is in Vedas as an ancient Word of G-d. So I am only compressing Vedas as a Revealed Scripture, to start with. Later I may develop interest in other religions in Hinduism, if any part/s of them claims to have a revealed Scripture of them other than Vedas. Right? Please
Regards

For my sect, and some others. the Agamas are also considered revealed scripture. I only know 2 atheist Hindus. One is here on this forum, and the other is a guy I know in real life. So I'm not sure really how many there are. The statistics here are skewed as our one atheist is quite vocal. Still, for the record, I don't think he is an atheist, just atheistic towards the Abrahamic God. By that definition, I'm an atheist too, as are most Hindus. It all boils down to whether or not we call Brahman God.

 

[atanu]

Vedas Scripture- The Compressed One

I wish that the ordinary man should be facilitated to read and finish the Vedas- the Scripture in a reasonable time frame , and people get spiritual guidance direct from the scripture itself, rather than from a third person.
Life being so busy, ordinary people cannot afford to read such a voluminous Vedic scripture, they will rather be thankful if such a concise/condensed/compressed scripture is produced which could be finished if not in 30 days or a month, then at least once in a year. Quran could be finished in thirty days , if read a part in 30/45 minutes a day, just for information, please.

The planning is like:

1. Rigveda, is proposed to be kept as it is.
2. Sam Veda which is a liturgical text whose 1,875 verses are primary derived from the Rigveda and only 65 new mantras/verses are there in Samaveda, so it should be compressed to 65 verses only and a footnote written on the verses in the Rigveda indicating that.
3.I am reading Yajurveda as one knows and now I nearing its end. It has total 500+ pages. I have found out that about some 50 or more verses are just repetition of the previous verses . These could be compressed for an ordinary man and only references provided in the original one.
4.I get a clue from post #18 , in another thread, that only a few verses on war/battles in Yajurveda should be mentioned in the compressed Yajurveda, though they form about 10% of Yajurveda, and the rest should be compressed. and only references retained, as this is against the contemporary Hinduism, who hold Ahimsa as a basic creed of Hinduism. Right?
5.I get a clue from post #12 that the original, if there was/is one, should have the holy Sanskrit text side by side the translation to solve any ambiguity if the need be. That would require a two-fold compression, yet not impossible, if the friends in Hinduism help us, as I don't know any Sanskrit as of now myself.
6. We get from Yajurveda 15:13 “learn that part of the Veda which deals with the Unity of God” ONENESS of G-d.God and the attributes of God are most mentioned in Yajurveda, hence, these parts of Veda must be given preference over anything else.#52

Anybody, please

Regards

#228,229,230, 345, #315,#391

You are trolling. You are using the translation of Yajur Veda that Zakir Naik uses (for wrong purposes). Probably you do not know the distinction between Taittriya and Vajaseniya schools of Yajus.

The verses 37 and 38 of the 7th Chapter that you have cited in OP have nothing to do with war with an external enemy. These two verses are prayers to Indra (and also to Soma), the Will-Soul, to overcome the Vrittra, the evil tendencies that beset every human.

Veda is not to be studied in absence of a Guru. It is a sin to distort scripture willingly or unknowingly.

It is laughable that you who have no knowledge of Sanskrit or Adhyatma of Vedic dharma and who does not seem to have a valid teacher, should aspire to condense the Vedas. It can only be as per your whims and fancies.

Please desist, if you are a true God fearing person.

Aum.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes, in the present scenario when some Atheism people insist to use it as an umbrella term, it may not., yet there are others like Vinayka who are Hindu and believe in God. God is a reality, but there is no compulsion to believe in Him, yet He exists. Right? One may like to read post #407 by her.
Regards

Hinduism has always been an umbrella term. To the point where some consider it an inaccurate term even!
There are millions of different flavours of Hinduism and yes there are actual athiestic schools within Hinduism. Not sure if any athiest Hindus on this site necessarily follow any of those particular sects. Maybe maybe not. Either way they're pretty prominent but probably better known in the West. Not because they are Western schools but because Athiests in the West are usually more vocal in their atheism. Where as many Athiest Hindus in the East won't really care to announce it. Hell many will actively go to Temple without batting an eyelash. Because that's just how Hindus roll.
Belief of God in Hinduism is not the best description. Hindus may call something God or Kali or Krishna or what have you. But the nameless formless timeless one (which roughly translates to the One True God) doesn't need to be a literal deity. It can be the Universal energy that makes up the world, the laws of physics and found within all life forms on earth. Hindus hope to "tap into" this energy. Whether that is taken to mean becoming one with God, trying to ignore the ego and become the "true self" or even just acknowledging this connection really depends on the specific Hindu.