Drug use and the religious.

[MW0082]

As a wise person has said,

"When given a choice between a real evil and a hypothetical evil, always choose the hypothetical one!"



Perhaps you should start examining what has already been written instead. . . .
I've already found what to me are eminently satisfying answers. (YMMV as ever.)

Bruce

I have examined what has been written and have come to find it's just as much bs as the war on drugs......

 

[jmvizanko]

So the general gist emerging here is that people have strong opinions about drugs, but not a lot of religious justification has been thrown around. Most of the decent arguments either way don't seem to be covered by the religions at hand. But it definitely seems that the religious are generally more opposed to drug use than the irreligous, and maybe its because the vague anti drug statements of their religion makes them prefer the secular arguments against it.

 

[Father Heathen]

So the general gist emerging here is that people have strong opinions about drugs, but not a lot of religious justification has been thrown around. Most of the decent arguments either way don't seem to be covered by the religions at hand. But it definitely seems that the religious are generally more opposed to drug use than the irreligous, and maybe its because the vague anti drug statements of their religion makes them prefer the secular arguments against it.

Okay, let's toss some religion into the mix. Why would god create plants or fungi that have the effects that they do when consumed?

 

[MW0082]

Okay, let's toss some religion into the mix. Why would god create plants or fungi that have the effects that they do when consumed?

To consume of course. Same thing with other plant medicines out there, everything has abenefit and we need to learn how best to use it.

 

[Riverwolf]

What I'm talking about when someone is so conditioned toward a certain viewpoint that they hold a strict adherence to it even in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary. In other words, those who've already settled on a conclusion long before the discussion even began.

Like I used to be.

Still, that's better.

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, and after I moved out my parents' house I was the one doing the shoving.

Then you got lucky.

I imagine the reason many people get into drugs is because of the thrill of doing wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

To consume of course. Same thing with other plant medicines out there, everything has a benefit and we need to learn how best to use it.

That might be a tempting idea to nurture, but doesn't it fly in the face of the reality of existence of such things as snake venom (as natural a substance as they can possibly come)?

Heck, there are people who can't deal with bee stings at all well. Or even just plain wheat-based food.

And of course, uranium and even molten lava are absolutely natural materials. Yet it takes a lot of processing to make them at all healthy.

Any way you slice it, the idea that natural substances "have a purpose" is as unrealistic as it is romantic. In real life one must be aware of what one is doing or else risk serious consequences.

 

[MW0082]

That might be a tempting idea to nurture, but doesn't it fly in the face of the reality of existence of such things as snake venom (as natural a substance as they can possibly come)?

How do you knwo that skane venom can not be used for something useful?

Heck, there are people who can't deal with bee stings at all well. Or even just plain wheat-based food.

Thats because they are allergic to them, which we can test for. Sme thign with drugs, you can get tested to see if you will have an adverse reaction. That is if it were legal, and that makes a great point. If it weere legal people could find out how dangerous it would be to them specifically. helping reduce the risk of death and harm....

And of course, uranium and even molten lava are absolutely natural materials. Yet it takes a lot of processing to make them at all healthy.

How do you know in their natural form we can not make use of these as well...... Oh you can't

Any way you slice it, the idea that natural substances "have a purpose" is as unrealistic as it is romantic. In real life one must be aware of what one is doing or else risk serious consequences.

Really, because I am pretty sure many natural things serve a purpose all the time, and are even dangerous. I mean how dangerous is pure oxygen? As long as your alive there is danger, and NOTHING will change that.

 

[LuisDantas]

Then there is no excuse for being inconsequential, right?

 

[MW0082]

Then there is no excuse for being inconsequential, right?

precisely, but tell me why peopel feel it is consequental when it is not?

 

[Gloone]

Why are many of the religious opposed to drug use? Can any of you give an argument based solely around your scriptures?

The bible seems to be opposed to drunkeness, but I've never seen it have anything to say about other specific drugs, which goes along with it being completely inexhaustive about all ethical issues. The best argument I have heard is the reference to the body being a temple. But there have been genius physicists that were pro the use of marijuana, so one can hardly make the claim that all dugs make people dumber and are necessarily detrimental to the body. It seems that people that arbitrarily have a problem with drugs just interpret whatever they can from their beliefs to suggest that it is wrong.

Certainly one can easily produce entirely secular arguments for why certain drugs are terrible, such as cocaine and heroin. But the opposite can be said of other drugs, such as shrooms being an incredibly positive and spiritual life experience, as noted in a Johns Hopkins study:

HOPKINS SCIENTISTS SHOW HALLUCINOGEN IN MUSHROOMS CREATES UNIVERSAL

And many religions have incorporated drug use for their spiritual and mind altering properties. So why, if your religion does not specifically prohibit drug use, would you neessarily need to be opposed, especially concerning the more benign and enjoyable drugs?

I think certain religions may try to do it to maintain some type of order. Although I can’t say all of them really try to enforce it. When I went to church I never herd the priest say, don’t drink. I actually started using Jesus as a reason to drink when my mom told me not too. I would just say, Jesus use to drink I can too. As a matter of fact he told me to remember him while I go out and drink this wine tonight.

But as far as making all drugs legal, I’m pretty sure that could be a bad thing. I could only imagine a supermarket that sold every type of drug possible. There would probably be people laid out in the walkways and in the parking lot blowing the place up. It would be a 24/7 party and the world would just go to a dump.

 

[MW0082]

But as far as making all drugs legal, I’m pretty sure that could be a bad thing. I could only imagine a supermarket that sold every type of drug possible. There would probably be people laid out in the walkways and in the parking lot blowing the place up. It would be a 24/7 party and the world would just go to a dump.

If you would like a real life example of how wrong you are, you need to look no further than Amsterdam. I can't believe the whole world is so niave to think drugs are bad,. When Amsterdam is running a very successful society with drugs being legal.....

 

[Gloone]

If you would like a real life example of how wrong you are, you need to look no further than Amsterdam. I can't believe the whole world is so niave to think drugs are bad,. When Amsterdam is running a very successful society with drugs being legal.....

What type of drugs are on the market in Amsterdam?
I have already herd how run down some of the places are over there. Haven't been there, but I know people that are into politics.

 

[MW0082]

What type of drugs are on the market in Amsterdam?
I have already herd how run down some of the places are over there. Haven't been there, but I know people that are into politics.

Amsterdam is actually very lovely and clean. Things legal to sell is Prostitution, marijuana and other forms such as hash or in food. You can have and use cocaine, ecstasy, meth, and much more.

Since this all crime has gone down 70%, not just drug related crime. theiur economy is better, everythign is better there. Even their youth have a less percent that try and use than we do. that says lots.

 

[JustAsking]

But as far as making all drugs legal, I’m pretty sure that could be a bad thing. I could only imagine a supermarket that sold every type of drug possible. There would probably be people laid out in the walkways and in the parking lot blowing the place up. It would be a 24/7 party and the world would just go to a dump.

There was a time when alcohol was prohibited and only done "in secret", or at least, not near the authorities. We now have liquor stores and heck, it's even sold in super markets (where I live). While you may, from time to time, run into a drunk at one of these places, that would most certainly be the exception, rather than the rule.

Why do you assume, take MJ for example, would be different?

Now, meth, etc, shouldn't be allowed as they are just inherently dangerous. I can't see a doctor ever telling anyone that it's ok to take, even in extreme moderation.

Heroin has many uses. Cocaine as well. Cannabis too. Meth, no. There are limits.

Just to drive the point home. Take Cannabis for example, look at California. They already basically hand it out to anyone that gets a card "for medical use" and that's handed out extremely liberally. There are shops where you can go to legally buy it. Yet, there are no stoners passed out in the shop, on the sidewalk, etc.

I'm not sure how you're coming to that conclusion.

 

[LuisDantas]

precisely, but tell me why peopel feel it is consequental when it is not?

Why do you think that is the case?

 

[Midnight Pete]

When I went to church I never herd the priest say, don’t drink. I actually started using Jesus as a reason to drink when my mom told me not too. I would just say, Jesus use to drink I can too. As a matter of fact he told me to remember him while I go out and drink this wine tonight.

Is this a joke? :areyoucra

Reminds me of Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey..... :biglaugh:

 

[MW0082]

Why do you think that is the case?

Because marijuana used in moderation is not harmful in any way, or at least not as harmful as cigarettes, alcohol, or any of the other processed crap we put in us.

 

[LuisDantas]

Amsterdam is actually very lovely and clean. Things legal to sell is Prostitution, marijuana and other forms such as hash or in food. You can have and use cocaine, ecstasy, meth, and much more.

Since this all crime has gone down 70%, not just drug related crime. theiur economy is better, everythign is better there. Even their youth have a less percent that try and use than we do. that says lots.

Maybe it says a lot about the public services in Holland, not about drug use itself. It would help your case if you had other examples, I suppose.

 

[no-body]

If you would like a real life example of how wrong you are, you need to look no further than Amsterdam. I can't believe the whole world is so niave to think drugs are bad,. When Amsterdam is running a very successful society with drugs being legal.....

Yeah I think when you make it legal people will actually look at their use a lot more objectively. When a lot of people use drugs they get off on the feeling of doing something illegal and won't even contemplate moderation. Some people even justify this to steal and do other things that hurt others.