Drug use and the religious.

[Riverwolf]

personal experience, we only use 10% of the brain and know even less.

snopes.com: Ten Percent of our Brains

Snopes.com is your friend. I, until a few minutes ago, did believe that it was true until gnomon said he used all of it, and I got curious and did a quick google search.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm ok with them banning drugs that produce smoke as long as we start with cars and factories, etc.

I think the studies show that second-hand smoke is more dangerous to us that factory smoke and car-exhaust. The former goes into the sky where we breathe only a minimal amount (I suspect), and exhaust disperses into the air enough so that not a whole lot is breathed unless you're really close (in which case the smart person would hold his or her breath while the vehicle goes by.)

Besides, I referred to tobacco cigarrettes, and I'm only talking about tobacco cigarretes. I'm not talking about pot, incense, home-made tobacco cigarretes that don't have all the extra crud in them...

 

[Midnight Pete]

Thank you for the startling amount of facts and insight to counter my claims

Like a lot of people that want to legalize drugs, I'm an ex "druggie" that has been completely clean and sober for several years, the strongest drug I use is a cup of tea or coffee, nor would want anything stronger even if every drug in existence was legalized.

I've had some great times on drugs but I have learned to put them behind me and move on they are personally not for me. The point is, everyone should have the choice.

If drugs are so great, why are you a reformed addict?

 

[gnomon]

If drugs are so great, why are you a reformed addict?

Ask me about drugs. I'll be more than happy to fill you in.

edit: That's a serious statement. However, I'm not sure what the forum rules allow in this type of discussion. It wouldn't involve glorifying drugs so perhaps the mods would allow it.

 

[no-body]

If drugs are so great, why are you a reformed addict?

Because I had/have psychological issues and ultimately I feel better off them than on them. That is my personal choice, based on my knowledge of drugs and myself. I don't have any criticism of the drugs themselves one way or another, they are neutral.

Ultimately I'm not advocating drug use, but personal responsibility. I don't think I can make you understand it; the whole "drugs are bad" black and white thing attitude actually makes people want do drugs even more.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Because I had/have psychological issues and ultimately I feel better off them than on them. That is my personal choice, based on my knowledge of drugs and myself. I don't have any criticism of the drugs themselves one way or another, they are neutral.

Ultimately I'm not advocating drug use, but personal responsibility. I don't think I can make you understand it; the whole "drugs are bad" black and white thing attitude actually makes people want do drugs even more.

It has not been my experience that knowing something is bad will make me want to do it, no matter how fun or enjoyable it seems. I've never been tempted to do drugs by anyone. I've never felt peer-pressured into trying anything against my better judgement. And I also had/have mental health issues.

Would you say you're better or worse off for having done drugs?

 

[gnomon]

It has not been my experience that knowing something is bad will make me want to do it, no matter how fun or enjoyable it seems. I've never been tempted to do drugs by anyone. I've never felt peer-pressured into trying anything against my better judgement. And I also had/have mental health issues.

So what?

edit: I don't think he has any interest at all in learning.

 

[no-body]

It has not been my experience that knowing something is bad will make me want to do it, no matter how fun or enjoyable it seems. I've never been tempted to do drugs by anyone. I've never felt peer-pressured into trying anything against my better judgement. And I also had/have mental health issues.

I told you that you wouldn't understand. Just the fact that you paint the entirely of "drugs" with the word "bad" shows this. If I was deep in the throes of my addiction and met someone with an uptight an attitude as you, I would want to immediately get high just on general principal.

Would you say you're better or worse off for having done drugs?

For "soft drugs" I would say better. I believe everyone should try psychedelics and pot at least once in their life. "hard drugs" are a waste of time and are only of medical use

 

[Midnight Pete]

So what?

edit: I don't think he has any interest at all in learning.

You're probably right. Wasn't really my intention to do a big anti-drug PSA, anyway.

 

[Riverwolf]

It has not been my experience that knowing something is bad will make me want to do it, no matter how fun or enjoyable it seems. I've never been tempted to do drugs by anyone. I've never felt peer-pressured into trying anything against my better judgement. And I also had/have mental health issues.

Was "being good" shoved down your throat until you were sick of it?

 

[gnomon]

You're probably right. Wasn't really my intention to do a big anti-drug PSA, anyway.

I had a long post on this but it was over the top.

Needless to say it went generally along the lines like this.

I did not use drugs growing up. I despised them.

One day I took a shotgun, loaded it, and put the barrel in my mouth. Half an hour later when I decided not to shoot my brains out I turned to alcohol and marijuana. It saved my damned life.

Of course, that didn't last. I lacked the facilities, money and resources to seek the proper medical help. Illicit drugs filled the place of the psychotropic medications that were given to me later that helped me through.

Years later I have no desire for the marijuana, crack, LSD or meth that I ingested during those years. I still smoke tobacco. Every once in a blue moon like tonight I drink. Would you believe me if I told you tonight that I've already gone through five crap Bud Ice's and a third of Jack Daniel's. Still typing this well. Never mind my possible misunderstanding of Gloone in another thread I still hold up pretty damn well.

If you take away my history no one would second guess the drinking. They would think it a party night. I can tell you from personal experience and the experience of others in treatment that alcohol abuse is far more dangerous than heroin abuse. Than cocaine. Than marijuana. But it is socially acceptable. It is accepted by many major religions. The blood of Christ is presented as red wine among many. Unless they've degraded to grape juice.

I've sat in courtrooms and seen the people ticketed for reckless driving due to their blood pressure medication. There are many drugs out there which we take in modern society that can be deemed abused or harmful. Was the Lithium I took for some years that balanced my manic-depressive and schizophrenic mind unacceptable? I had regular blood checks to make sure I did not blow my kidneys out while taking that medication. The dope I smoked didn't require such nor has a single scientific study suggested as much. One get's me into an acceptable human worker while the other puts me in jail. Which I've been in.

This is a subject I know a lot about, have the anectdotal evidence on both side, for example, I think meth labs should be raided, and have experienced the consequences of.

Is this post a bit heavy handed? Obviously. Am I perfect example? No. But I do know this subject.

 

[Father Heathen]

The facts and logic have been laid out, but the debate continues only because people have been indoctrinated since childhood to find certain subjects emotionally unpalatable.

 

[Riverwolf]

The facts and logic have been laid out, but the debate continues only because people have been indoctrinated since childhood to find certain subjects emotionally unpalatable.

Is that always a problem?

Not to mention... that doesn't really make sense, nor is it necessarily true. I was indoctrinated since childbirth to shun cigarettes, alcohol, and other drugs, yet I'm willing to talk about it.

 

[Father Heathen]

Is that always a problem?

When it leads to willful ignorance, denial and self deceit, yes.

 

[Riverwolf]

When it leads to willful ignorance, denial and self deceit, yes.

You provided a condition. When I said "always," I implied no condition.

Not to mention, you responded very quickly, and didn't notice that I had edited my post with an additional statement.

 

[Father Heathen]

Not to mention... that doesn't really make sense, nor is it necessarily true. I was indoctrinated since childbirth to shun cigarettes, alcohol, and other drugs, yet I'm willing to talk about it.

What I'm talking about when someone is so conditioned toward a certain viewpoint that they hold a strict adherence to it even in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary. In other words, those who've already settled on a conclusion long before the discussion even began.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Was "being good" shoved down your throat until you were sick of it?

Yes, and after I moved out my parents' house I was the one doing the shoving.

 

[MW0082]

It didn't work all that well with alcohol, now did it?

It worked very well for alcohol, and is currenlt working very well for Amsterdam as far as legal drugs go. Where do you get your info...?

 

[MW0082]

Yes, and after I moved out my parents' house I was the one doing the shoving.

Oh great, more people giving wrong information to our youth. So they can go on to continue to make the same mistakes.

 

[BruceDLimber]

If a small amount of cyanide helped in any way, you would condone it?

As a wise person has said,

"When given a choice between a real evil and a hypothetical evil, always choose the hypothetical one!"

When did you speak to him/her/it, I have been trying for 28 years now.

Perhaps you should start examining what has already been written instead. . . .
I've already found what to me are eminently satisfying answers. (YMMV as ever.)

Bruce