Drug use and the religious.

[MW0082]

I'm opposed to pretty much all drugs by principle, including marijuana and alcohol. I can't really say that it is because of my religious faith - it is far more correct to say that the existence of the Fifth Precept, that warns against intoxication, was a factor in my choice of faith.

The way I see it, one's mental stability is essentially patrimony of everyone, a natural resource of sorts. To purposefully endanger it is basically a crime and not to be tolerated.

How do drugs endanger your mental stability?
How do you knwo drugs don't make you MORE stable?

 

[Yona]

What are we talking about? All psychoactive substances or specifically 'drugs'?

I personally regularly consume caffiene, nicotine, alcohol and THC. It's all about moderation.

 

[MW0082]

Parents Arrested After Fifth Grader Turns Them In For Having Marijuana Joints; Kid Inspired By L.A.-Founded D.A.R.E. Program - Los Angeles News - The Informer

And child protection services have removed the children from the home until further investigation.

Heard about that, and it is a shame. Those poor parents to have that ******* of a child. They did nothign wrong, they were not violent or abusive due to it. Theyd din't have it around the child and force them to use it.

This is why some drugs need to be legal. We are creating criminals and violence and ruining peoples lifes. Seriously lets wake up to the human nature and drugs. they have been here since we started and we will be doing them till it ends. To fight that is a LOSING battle!!!

 

[LuisDantas]

How do drugs endanger your mental stability?

By affecting it without being part of my own biochemical system, and therefore not self-regulated.

How do you know drugs don't make you MORE stable?

Maybe in some very specific cases they do. But those situations are few and far between, and definitely not an excuse for recreational use.

I even oppose prescription drugs such as fluoxetine. They work, and that is a big reason to be careful with them. They usually end up being poor, expensive, addictive and unreliable substitutes for truly having a balanced life. Even under optimal circunstances they often accomplish little more then the means for prolonging unhealthy situations for a while longer.

Quite frankly, that makes little sense and ought to be repealed by society already. It is far more sensible to actually correct the social and environmental causes that make psychoactives appealing in the first place. A world that still has people dying of hunger and lack of inexpensive medical care ought not to tolerate any recreational drug use whatsoever.

 

[LuisDantas]

Heard about that, and it is a shame. Those poor parents to have that ******* of a child. They did nothign wrong, they were not violent or abusive due to it. Theyd din't have it around the child and force them to use it.

This is why some drugs need to be legal.

No. This is instead why all drugs should be avoided and openly discussed, regardless of any legal status.

We are creating criminals and violence and ruining peoples lifes. Seriously lets wake up to the human nature and drugs. they have been here since we started and we will be doing them till it ends. To fight that is a LOSING battle!!!

So was the battle agains slavery, once upon a time. Then as now, the true solution is to reach enough enlightment to realize that the whole addiction should be disposed of.

 

[MW0082]

By affecting it without being part of my own biochemical system, and therefore not self-regulated.

Neither is oxygen which can also affect your brains function. yet you still beathe right...? Just because you do not regulate or create it doesn't mean it is a bad thing. Maybe it means you shouldn't be like that at all times. Which is why we have the option to add it to our own makeup if you will....

Maybe in some very specific cases they do. But those situations are few and far between, and definitely not an excuse for recreational use.

Really, ever hear of SSRI's? Cause there are a ton of those....

I even oppose prescription drugs such as fluoxetine. They work, and that is a big reason to be careful with them. They usually end up being poor, expensive, addictive and unreliable substitutes for truly having a balanced life. Even under optimal circunstances they often accomplish little more then the means for prolonging unhealthy situations for a while longer.

So what, is that your unhealthy situation or someone elses? Who are YOU to tell people what they do with there bodies is wrong?

Quite frankly, that makes little sense and ought to be repealed by society already. It is far more sensible to actually correct the social and environmental causes that make psychoactives appealing in the first place. A world that still has people dying of hunger and lack of inexpensive medical care ought not to tolerate any recreational drug use whatsoever.

It makes perfect sense, why would there not be recreational drugs on the planet? And do you know how many billions of dollars the world wastes on the drug war? A war on drugs that is failing, throwing money down the drain to arrest innocent people who are just trying to enjoy THEIR life.... It's a shame, you want to give them some money. legalize drugs and watch the economy turn around in a heart beat.....

 

[MW0082]

No. This is instead why all drugs should be avoided and openly discussed, regardless of any legal status.

Umm no, by being illegal it makes it harder to discuss let alone bring them up. If it were legal parents wouldn't be ashamed about their past time hobbies.

So was the battle agains slavery, once upon a time. Then as now, the true solution is to reach enough enlightment to realize that the whole addiction should be disposed of.

Don't even try to compare the two.

And BTW addiction is in the person NOT the drug.....

 

[ninerbuff]

Umm no, by being illegal it makes it harder to discuss let alone bring them up. If it were legal parents wouldn't be ashamed about their past time hobbies.

Whole heartedly agree with you here. Kids love to hear stories about how their parents did illegal things to justify some to the illegal things they may end up doing.

Don't even try to compare the two.

And BTW addiction is in the person NOT the drug.....

Agree again. Gambling is an addiction with no drug involved.

 

[MW0082]

Whole heartedly agree with you here. Kids love to hear stories about how their parents did illegal things to justify some to the illegal things they may end up doing.




Agree again. Gambling is an addiction with no drug involved.

precisely, we have created all the bad things that come with drug use and dealing by making them illegal. it's sad that many do not see this.... We could turn things around for the better and fast/...

 

[LuisDantas]

Neither is oxygen which can also affect your brains function. yet you still beathe right...? Just because you do not regulate or create it doesn't mean it is a bad thing.

Either you misunderstood me, or you are claiming that people can't regulate their own breathing, which I doubt.

Maybe it means you shouldn't be like that at all times. Which is why we have the option to add it to our own makeup if you will....

Sorry, but you have lost me entirely here. I can't make heads or tails of what you mean here.

Really, ever hear of SSRI's? Cause there are a ton of those....

The anti-depressants? Of course. Why?

They are one of the main reasons why I object to prescribed drugs, you know.

So what, is that your unhealthy situation or someone elses? Who are YOU to tell people what they do with there bodies is wrong?

I am Luis Dantas.

Would I need to be someone specifically? If so, why?

It makes perfect sense, why would there not be recreational drugs on the planet?

Because it is a waste from the get-go, for starters. That is before even considering the effects on behavior and psychological health.

And do you know how many billions of dollars the world wastes on the drug war? A war on drugs that is failing, throwing money down the drain to arrest innocent people who are just trying to enjoy THEIR life.... It's a shame, you want to give them some money. legalize drugs and watch the economy turn around in a heart beat.....

That may even be true, but it is completely besides my point. I don't much care for either laws about drug use (either pro or against) or the "drug war". It is the use itself that I care about.

 

[LuisDantas]

Umm no, by being illegal it makes it harder to discuss let alone bring them up. If it were legal parents wouldn't be ashamed about their past time hobbies.

So you are agreeing with me that they should be discussed, or not? You're real hard to interpret on this matter.

Don't even try to compare the two.

Why shouldn't I? It is a very natural parallel, in fact.

Both are socially accepted addictions that are protected with a passion by their adherents. And both bring a lot of sorrow to those who pay the price for such indulgences.

And BTW addiction is in the person NOT the drug.....

Of course. That is why I advocate discussion and avoidance, not illegality.

 

[MW0082]

Either you misunderstood me, or you are claiming that people can't regulate their own breathing, which I doubt.

Not without a foriegn imgredient.........

Sorry, but you have lost me entirely here. I can't make heads or tails of what you mean here.

I am saying why would we have drugs in us at all time? What kind of world would that produce?, not an affective one, so the drug is in the plant or seed or whatever so we can consume responsibilty.

The anti-depressants? Of course. Why?

Because they are helpful drugs that balance the levels of the brain in people. they are needed and warranted...

They are one of the main reasons why I object to prescribed drugs, you know.

And why would you objest to people feeling better...?

I am Luis Dantas.

Would I need to be someone specifically? If so, why?

You would need to be someone important to tell others what they should and should not be doing, which I think you are not.

Because it is a waste from the get-go, for starters. That is before even considering the effects on behavior and psychological health.

Says who? you..? So what... it's not a waste to me when I smoke marijuana and feel good with out side affects, or am able to eat or sleep. Your on the outside lookign in, you have no idea what the potential of these drugs are or there true purpose. I can assure you they are here for a reason, like EVeRYTHING else is...

That may even be true, but it is completely besides my point. I don't much care for either laws about drug use (either pro or against) or the "drug war". It is the use itself that I care about.

So it's the customer buying the drugs fault then is it? So what IS your point? Me buying drugs is not the reason there is violence or starving people. people telling others what to do however IS...

 

[MW0082]

So you are agreeing with me that they should be discussed, or not? You're real hard to interpret on this matter.

Yes they should be discussed, but tell me how is a parent who smokes pot going to have the courage and bravery to discuss that with their children? When you have idiots out there to tell children to turn their parents in!!! I don't think so,....

Why shouldn't I? It is a very natural parallel, in fact.

Slavery and Drugs are parallels, please elaborate. Should be interesting...

Both are socially accepted addictions that are protected with a passion by their adherents. And both bring a lot of sorrow to those who pay the price for such indulgences.

What are both that are socially accepted...?

Of course. That is why I advocate discussion and avoidance, not illegality.

Why avoidance? Why do people have to avoid something that makes them feel good, or feel better, or even be healthier. Dicussion and avoidance will not chqange how the drug world operates, and it will make it worse. Sorry you guys have been trying this method for a long time now and it has obviously failed. it's time we look at another option, like legalization...

 

[LuisDantas]

Not without a foriegn imgredient.........

Uh? That is simply not at all true.

I am saying why would we have drugs in us at all time? What kind of world would that produce?, not an affective one, so the drug is in the plant or seed or whatever so we can consume responsibilty.

Again, uh? What you are saying makes no sense.

Are you aware that human biochemistry produces and regulates various drug-like substances? I won't deny that the balance of that self-regulation isn't always acceptable, but neither is it usually faulty enough to justify your apparent claim that it is actually better and more responsible to acquire them from external sources instead.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you entirely?

Because they are helpful drugs that balance the levels of the brain in people. they are needed and warranted...

Sometimes, they are indeed.

Far more often, they are simply over-prescribed or simply abused.

And why would you objest to people feeling better...?

I wouldn't, of course. Until and unless I consider the prices and risks involved, that is. Which I do, and which I expect pretty much everyone else to do as well.

You would need to be someone important to tell others what they should and should not be doing, which I think you are not.

Nope, you are wrong. I have every right to my opinions.

As are you, which is why you are even judging me in the first place, isn't it so?

Says who? you..? So what... it's not a waste to me when I smoke marijuana and feel good with out side affects, or am able to eat or sleep. Your on the outside lookign in, you have no idea what the potential of these drugs are or there true purpose. I can assure you they are here for a reason, like EVeRYTHING else is...

Are you claiming divine design for drugs then? Or am I again failing to understand what you mean?

Either way, I simply disagree entirely.

So it's the customer buying the drugs fault then is it?

Buying, and using them in the first place. Sure. It's not like there is any real doubt about that, now is it?

I don't much like the idea of the government deciding which drugs are "acceptable" and which aren't. It is misplacing the responsibility.

But claiming that there is no responsibility to be placed is far worse still.

So what IS your point? Me buying drugs is not the reason there is violence or starving people. people telling others what to do however IS...

Sorry, I fear you will have to translate that somehow if you really want me to make sense of that.

 

[MW0082]

Uh? That is simply not at all true.

really, so we make ALL the ingredients we need to breathe with no outside source?? think about that....

Again, uh? What you are saying makes no sense.

I am saying maybe we don't have THC in our heads bc we would be messed up people if we did. So the option is outside of our brain.....

Are you aware that human biochemistry produces and regulates various drug-like substances? I won't deny that the balance of that self-regulation isn't always acceptable, but neither is it usually faulty enough to justify your apparent claim that it is actually better and more responsible to acquire them from external sources instead.
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding you entirely?

I am quite aware, I am saying that the drug is not in our brains due to God/Evolution knwoing it would not be a good idea to be high 24/7, just once in awhile.....

Sometimes, they are indeed.
Far more often, they are simply over-prescribed or simply abused.

I agree, but you can't take away the help that the reponsible are getting for those who abuse it....

I wouldn't, of course. Until and unless I consider the prices and risks involved, that is. Which I do, and which I expect pretty much everyone else to do as well.

umm what...? I don't understand what you're trying to say here...

Nope, you are wrong. I have every right to my opinions.

As are you, which is why you are even judging me in the first place, isn't it so?

I am not judging you, I am telling you you're wrong, because you are... No one has the right to tell anyone they cannot do drugs. it's not YOUR body..

Are you claiming divine design for drugs then? Or am I again failing to understand what you mean?

Either way, I simply disagree entirely.

Sure why not? Drugs open the mind not limit it....

Buying, and using them in the first place. Sure. It's not like there is any real doubt about that, now is it?

I don't much like the idea of the government deciding which drugs are "acceptable" and which aren't. It is misplacing the responsibility.

But claiming that there is no responsibility to be placed is far worse still.

The responsibility comes down to the person using them, and no one else...

Sorry, I fear you will have to translate that somehow if you really want me to make sense of that.

it's rather simple, doing drugs is not the reason that evil occurs around drugs. that comes directly from making them illegal....

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes they should be discussed, but tell me how is a parent who smokes pot going to have the courage and bravery to discuss that with their children? When you have idiots out there to tell children to turn their parents in!!! I don't think so,....

No need to insult me. For one thing, I never defended "turning parents in", whatever exactly that might mean to you.

As for your question proper, I don't think it is much different from any other situation of parents encouraging children to be better than they are themselves in some specific matter. It may be a hard responsibility to exercise, but it is both needed and, at least to a degree, somewhat transferable. After all, children are supposed to have more than just their two parents to use as role models.

Slavery and Drugs are parallels, please elaborate. Should be interesting...

There isn't even much to elaborate.

In a nutshell, they are both part of some people's lifestyles and hard to do without if you are really used to them. In one word, they are both addictions.

That so many people, then as now, swear that things just must be the way they are used to only underscores the similarities.

What are both that are socially accepted...?

Slavery and drug use.

If the Prohibition taught something, it was that society does not really care about consumption laws.

Why avoidance? Why do people have to avoid something that makes them feel good, or feel better, or even be healthier.

They don't always, of course. But the consequences and risks shouldn't be disregarded, either.

Discussion and avoidance will not change how the drug world operates,

Why, of course they will. There is no greater remedy against traffic than refusal to consume. There couldn't possible be.

and it will make it worse.

I am genuinely curious: why do you think that would be so? I just can't imagine any scenario that would make your claim true.

Are you actually claiming that enlightment about drug use is a bad thing?

Sorry you guys have been trying this method for a long time now and it has obviously failed.

Or maybe it hasn't been tried openly, heartily enough. After all, you spent a good time above fighting that option yourself.

it's time we look at another option, like legalization...

Legalization is both dangerous and actually irrelevant to the greater context. Illegality has been proven ineffective to contain drug use, but it does not at all follow that it is a good idea to dispose of it entirely.

 

[Midnight Pete]

The non-chemical high is where it's at, if a high we must have.

 

[ChristineES]

I see daily on the street people on things like Meth, crack, and more. They are hardly alive. I know this kind of thing doesn't really happen with marijuana- it happens more with alcohol (which is legal) than pot. The alcoholics at least seem alive, but the more illicit drugs (like meth, crack, etc) makes them seem like the walking dead. They need a lot of help. Making those things legal would hardly cause that to diminish. (and, like I said, I know that kind of thing doesn't really happen with marijuana use)

 

[LuisDantas]

really, so we make ALL the ingredients we need to breathe with no outside source?? think about that....

Of course not, but that is completely unrelated to our subject matter.

I am saying maybe we don't have THC in our heads bc we would be messed up people if we did. So the option is outside of our brain.....

And therefore we should use a substance that is both unregulated by our own systems and, in your own words, capable of "messing up" ourselves? Really?

I must be seriously misreading you somehow.

I am quite aware, I am saying that the drug is not in our brains due to God/Evolution knowing it would not be a good idea to be high 24/7, just once in awhile.....

Come back to me with the signed report advocating support for "once in a while", then we can resume this one, shall we?

Seriously now, it is really surprising that you are apparently saying that recreational drug use is somehow safer than self-balance of internally generated substances.

It is basically by definition not so. For one thing, there is no true way of knowing how much one can take, for how long, and with which results.

I agree, but you can't take away the help that the responsible are getting for those who abuse it....

I don't think I ever proposed taking that away, now did I?

umm what...? I don't understand what you're trying to say here...

The gist of it is that I reject a simplistic approach to drugs. Whether they make people feel good is not and can not be enough. The other consequences and effects must be considered as well.

I am not judging you, I am telling you you're wrong, because you are...

How is that not judging me, exactly?

No one has the right to tell anyone they cannot do drugs. it's not YOUR body...

Everyone has every right to tell anyone that. That goes without saying. It is not a privilege of mine, but an inate right of every person.

Nor is it only a matter for those people who actually use the stuff. Psychoactive drugs affect everyone else as well, albeit indirectly, to varying degrees.

Sure why not? Drugs open the mind not limit it....

Excuse me? What basis do you have to such a bold claim?

The responsibility comes down to the person using them, and no one else...

Wrong. And quite often, tragically so.

it's rather simple, doing drugs is not the reason that evil occurs around drugs. that comes directly from making them illegal....

If only. If I saw even a hint of truth in that claim, I would probably support legalization as well.

 

[MW0082]

No need to insult me. For one thing, I never defended "turning parents in", whatever exactly that might mean to you.

never insukted you, I was insulting the programs that advocate turning parents in for drug use or posession.....

As for your question proper, I don't think it is much different from any other situation of parents encouraging children to be better than they are themselves in some specific matter. It may be a hard responsibility to exercise, but it is both needed and, at least to a degree, somewhat transferable. After all, children are supposed to have more than just their two parents to use as role models.

Yet this one could get them into legal trouble. I think you don't see the point.....

There isn't even much to elaborate.

In a nutshell, they are both part of some people's lifestyles and hard to do without if you are really used to them. In one word, they are both addictions.

That so many people, then as now, swear that things just must be the way they are used to only underscores the similarities.

What? Slavery in this country at least, is not accepted or part of our lifestyle thank you very much. Slavery is IMMORAl, smoking pot is not..... that is a very very bad comparison...

Slavery and drug use.

Ummm no, no they are BOTH not accepted. No one I knows accepts slavery at all. Where do yuo get your info from...?

If the Prohibition taught something, it was that society does not really care about consumption laws.

No what it taught us was that people are going to do waht they want, especially when there is no actual harm to society for drug use....

They don't always, of course. But the consequences and risks shouldn't be disregarded, either.

You're at risk as long as your alive.

Why, of course they will. There is no greater remedy against traffic than refusal to consume. There couldn't possible be.

No they actually wont, people have been using drugs since the dawn of man, and will continue till the demise. You can never change that, so find a better way of doing it....

I am genuinely curious: why do you think that would be so? I just can't imagine any scenario that would make your claim true.

Lets see, adult parents tell their teenage kids not to smoke pot even though they do..... Umm hypocrite, and shildren hate hypocrites.

Are you actually claiming that enlightment about drug use is a bad thing?

No, I am saying enlighting them on them and telling them not to them will and is a problem.

Or maybe it hasn't been tried openly, heartily enough. After all, you spent a good time above fighting that option yourself.

Again your missing the point, we cannot discuss them openly if they are illegal. And the only way this will get better is to make the legal.

Legalization is both dangerous and actually irrelevant to the greater context. Illegality has been proven ineffective to contain drug use, but it does not at all follow that it is a good idea to dispose of it entirely.

No it is not irrelevant and please explain to me how it is more dangerous than a kid who has to risk his life everyday in the drug trade to support all the illegal habits. please, you are wrong you will always be wrong. I give it a few years before marijuana is legal for personal use, and you will see how wrong you are.....