Drug use and the religious.

[Riverwolf]

So you admit to "polluting the temple and spitting in god's face", as you put it?

Hey, I admit to polluting the temple (not the spitting part). But I don't believe I'll go to hell for it. My overall health will speak for itself.

It's just another way of looking at the body to help motivate changing habits to be healthier.

Besides, it's best to start with more gross aspects than subtle. So before effective habits of keeping the internal temple from becoming polluted, it's best in my opinion for one who has such a view to focus on cleaning and keeping clean the external temple (one's house or apartment). At least for one such as me.

 

[Father Heathen]

Puffing on a joint doesn't make one a junkie any more than sipping on a fine wine makes one an alcoholic. The problem with any substance, legal or illegal, is responsibility and moderation. This also goes for mundane things like gambling, coffee, food, and even stuff like Wold of Warcraft.

 

[Riverwolf]

Puffing on a joint doesn't make one a junkie any more than sipping on a fine wine makes one an alcoholic. The problem with any substance, legal or illegal, is responsibility and moderation. This goes for mundane things like gambling, coffee, food, and even stuff like Wold of Warcraft, too.

No arguments from me. I simply speak of my own opinion which I apply only to myself in this case. I don't hold others to those standards, nor do I say those standards are morally better.

I choose not to partake in certain drugs. I don't drink alcohol. I do, however, play video games and drink caffeine.

Heck, if you want to be a real literalist, sugar would fit the definition of drug nicely.

 

[Midnight Pete]

So I assume you believe that alcohol, tobacco and even caffeine should be made illegal then? To say no would make you a hypocrite.

Alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco are legal and yet they are not entirely harmless substances. Why all three of them haven't been flat-out criminalized I don't know. Personally, I'm all for the caffeine. Not only is it legal, it's socially acceptable. The coffee-date has none of the implied sleaziness of the bar-date, ie. getting a woman drunk in order to take advantage of her sexually.

If you had your druthers, which illegal drug would you have legalized?

 

[Storm]

As far as drug use for altered states of consciousness goes, I'm skeptical. I absolutely believe in trance states as a means to perceive God, but I'm more than a little dubious that entheogens induce genuine revelation. I'm open to persuasion, but it would take more than anecdotal evidence.

That's about as far as my beliefs affect my opinions on drug issues.

If we bring in other motives, then I become quite opinionated.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

As far as drug use for altered states of consciousness goes, I'm skeptical.

as well you should be. (although the definitions of altered can be varied.)

I absolutely believe in trance states as a means to perceive God, but I'm more than a little dubious that entheogens induce genuine revelation. I'm open to persuasion, but it would take more than anecdotal evidence.

we're using the same mechanism, simply firing it up a different way.
the issue with psychedelic or psychotropic drugs is that they are difficult in the way produce subjective experiences. and much of them are difficult in the way that they are illegal in many countries. so study on them is more difficult to obtain than would be preferable. while i certainly cannot offer you anything more than anecdotal evidence of how these drugs can produce god-experiences, i wouldn't anyway, because i dont believe they are god-experiences. however i certainly can understand, though my experience, that one might perceive episodes like these as godly, heavenly, divine or what-have-you.

If we bring in other motives, then I become quite opinionated.

like what other motives.

 

[Storm]

as well you should be. (although the definitions of altered can be varied.)


we're using the same mechanism, simply firing it up a different way.
the issue with psychedelic or psychotropic drugs is that they are difficult in the way produce subjective experiences. and much of them are difficult in the way that they are illegal in many countries. so study on them is more difficult to obtain than would be preferable. while i certainly cannot offer you anything more than anecdotal evidence of how these drugs can produce god-experiences, i wouldn't anyway, because i dont believe they are god-experiences. however i certainly can understand, though my experience, that one might perceive episodes like these as godly, heavenly, divine or what-have-you.

Maybe. Maybe it's just a good trip. How would you know the difference?

like what other motives.

Whether or not they do harm to society.

 

[MW0082]

Alcohol, caffeine, and tobacco are legal and yet they are not entirely harmless substances. Why all three of them haven't been flat-out criminalized I don't know. Personally, I'm all for the caffeine. Not only is it legal, it's socially acceptable. The coffee-date has none of the implied sleaziness of the bar-date, ie. getting a woman drunk in order to take advantage of her sexually.

If you had your druthers, which illegal drug would you have legalized?

What??

I can tell you right now why they are not illegal. Because it's not your concern, and it's not your body. Religious law is just that religious law, and soctieties lawys are for society. What you believe and what you think is not law.

We are adults, and need to be treated as such. meaning as an adult if I want to smoke a joint or a bong or an L it's none of your business. it's my life and my body.

Not to mention the ONLY reason these drugs can be bad is because they are illegal. None of you could say anything about drugs because you have never lived ina place where drugs were legal. So you can propose all you want, we creat criminals, we create violence,a nd we create all the bad **** that goes along with it, because we made them illegal. it's really that simple.... Societies were prosperous with drugs before why can they not be today. Amsterdam anyone....

 

[Riverwolf]

Looks like the drug PSAs of the 80s and early 90s were more effective than I thought...

 

[BruceDLimber]

Who is to say it is improper functioning?

I prefer to take God's word for this (hope you don't mind).

Different functioning, sure, but why necessarily bad, given the enjoyable and useful qualities many of them have?

Cyanide has useful qualities, too, but I don't recommend folks use it, either!

f you believe in a god who created everything, then why did he create curious substances that have pleasurable and fascinating effects on the brain, many of which don't necessarily damage the brain?

An excellent question; I suggest you ask Him.

Meanwhile, I'll take His word for this, as I noted.

And it's pretty obvious that such things have other uses, for example making rope from hemp. The fact that we haven't necessarily discovered those uses yet doesn't change this.

Bruce

 

[MW0082]

I prefer to take God's word for this (hope you don't mind).

Thats your decision, doesn't mean it's correct just that it's yours.

Cyanide has useful qualities, too, but I don't recommend folks use it, either!

Why? If a small amount of cyanide helped in any way, you would condone it?

An excellent question; I suggest you ask Him.

I have, he/she/it never answered... surpirised?

Meanwhile, I'll take His word for this, as I noted.

When did you speak to him/her/it, I have been trying for 28 years now.

And it's pretty obvious that such things have other uses, for example making rope from hemp. The fact that we haven't necessarily discovered those uses yet doesn't change this.

Bruce

Oh we know the uses, it's the main reason marijuana was ilelgalized to begin with. For hemp was going to take over the wood industry, so a smere campaign was ran and viola weed is illegal.....

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

Maybe. Maybe it's just a good trip. How would you know the difference?

i suppose i wouldn't know the difference. or i wouldn't believe that there is a difference. but that's coming from a godless standpoint, so i think i'm going to stick with "i wouldn't know the difference" as my answer.

Whether or not they do harm to society.

we're still talking about trip-drugs?

 

[Storm]

i suppose i wouldn't know the difference. or i wouldn't believe that there is a difference. but that's coming from a godless standpoint, so i think i'm going to stick with "i wouldn't know the difference" as my answer.

See, I believe trance states reveal God. We may not understand it, but at least we can see it. So, for me, the question is whether entheogens live up to that name, or just trick the brain.

we're still talking about trip-drugs?

Any. If you want to get into the whole thing, I think the War On Drugs does a lot more damage than the drugs themselves, and that most should be legalized, or at least decriminalized.

The only one I think should be completely illegal is meth, and even there I favor treatment over incarceration, etc..

 

[Breathe]

For hemp was going to take over the wood industry,

That would have made family bonfires into very different experiences.

 

[MW0082]

That would have made family bonfires into very different experiences.

Indeed it may have, lol. But I meant for product use, rope paper and such. It was cheaper and more durable.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

See, I believe trance states reveal God. We may not understand it, but at least we can see it. So, for me, the question is whether entheogens live up to that name, or just trick the brain.

and for me, i hold this 'trick' of the brain in very high regard, because it's the closest thing that this skeptic ever got to a transcendental divine reality.

Any. If you want to get into the whole thing, I think the War On Drugs does a lot more damage than the drugs themselves, and that most should be legalized, or at least decriminalized.

i would agree with you.

The only one I think should be completely illegal is meth, and even there I favor treatment over incarceration, etc..

i would agree with you on the production of meth, but not the use. a big problem with meth is that it's an amateur operation - much of the country was prescribed meth (in pill form) in the 50's, that was made in regulated circumstances and the problems didn't nearly equate to what we deal with now.

 

[Breathe]

Indeed it may have, lol. But I meant for product use, rope paper and such. It was cheaper and more durable.

Hehe, yeah I know, I was just playing around.

 

[MW0082]

Hehe, yeah I know, I was just playing around.

Oooh I'll have to be careful 'round you....

 

[ninerbuff]

Parents Arrested After Fifth Grader Turns Them In For Having Marijuana Joints; Kid Inspired By L.A.-Founded D.A.R.E. Program - Los Angeles News - The Informer

And child protection services have removed the children from the home until further investigation.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm opposed to pretty much all drugs by principle, including marijuana and alcohol. I can't really say that it is because of my religious faith - it is far more correct to say that the existence of the Fifth Precept, that warns against intoxication, was a factor in my choice of faith.

The way I see it, one's mental stability is essentially patrimony of everyone, a natural resource of sorts. To purposefully endanger it is basically a crime and not to be tolerated.