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Drug use and the religious.

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ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
But what about lesser hardcore drugs than things like coke, meth etc? Give me an argument for why marijuana is a worse drug than alcohol, which you have claimed can be beneficial.

Some member of my family smoked marijuana, and while it didn't really cause any major problems, it did cause a few. Overeating is one (people seem to crave food while high), laziness is another. On top of that and other things, it can cause lung cancer and it is expensive (or at least it was). I don't have anything against it being used for medicinal purposes, as it helps with the side effects of chemotherapy and can be used as a drug for pain. But you're right, in moderation, it probably isn't any more dangerous than alcohol. But coke and meth are dangerous. Coke can cause heart problems (Teen idol Andy Gibb died at age 30 due to heart problems caused by using coke)
 
Why do you think black markets exist in the first place? Why does criminal activity exist in the first place? No, it doesn't matter what you legalize because there will always be activities outside the law so long as the law exists.

black markets exist because of government interference. and the only reason that black market drug sales exist is because of government interference in drug sales. you dont seem to understand that criminalizing individuals who participate in a victimless crime tends to embolden them toward more dangerous crime. if you tell someone they are a criminal for doing something that isn't wrong, you blur the lines of right and wrong by replacing them with legal and illegal. that's just plain irresponsible.

particularly in the case of pot, we're talking about moral propaganda used to help fuel the sales of pharmaceuticals and the perpetuation of a police state. and legalization would eliminate the illegal trade of marijuana. simple as that. no more gangs, no more dealers, no more incredibly inflated prices, and no more shipping high-school kids off to jail so that they can become addicted to more potent drugs.

as for the 'gateway-drug' argument, it HAD to have come from someone who's never smoked pot. someone said in this thread that lower-impact drugs lose their fun as use progresses and i seriously burst out laughing. i've smoked pot consistently for years and have never once even though about using 'harder' drugs - and have never been disappointed with the effect the giggle-bush has had on me. all of these theories are completely fabricated by people who don't really have any good reason to demonize marijuana use, yet have plenty of financial reasons.

but dont worry, in a few years we'll look back at this time in our history and laugh our ***** off.
 

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
Some member of my family smoked marijuana, and while it didn't really cause any major problems, it did cause a few. Overeating is one (people seem to crave food while high), laziness is another. On top of that and other things, it can cause lung cancer and it is expensive (or at least it was). I don't have anything against it being used for medicinal purposes, as it helps with the side effects of chemotherapy and can be used as a drug for pain. But you're right, in moderation, it probably isn't any more dangerous than alcohol. But coke and meth are dangerous. Coke can cause heart problems (Teen idol Andy Gibb died at age 30 due to heart problems caused by using coke)

Well come doesn't just cause heart problems. It can pretty much make your heart explode if you take enough.

And pot doesn't have to be smoked, even if that is the most preferrably intake method. It can be vaporized or eaten too. But then, are you opposed to keeping cigarettes legal? And the reason it is so expensive is because it is illegal. Even if the government taxed the crap out of selling legal pot, you could still get it substantially cheaper than now.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
I just want everyone to know that isn't just my faith that gives me these ideas, but from experience. My family did drugs (I never did), I had an aunt die of cirrhosis of the liver after years of hard drinking when she was only 36. There has been marijuana use, cocaine use, and alcoholism in my family.

So you might agree when I say that the body is a temple of God. And to pollute the temple, to destroy it in such an evil way, would be to spit in His face.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
So you might agree when I say that the body is a temple of God. And to pollute the temple, to destroy it in such an evil way, would be to spit in His face.
Lol, do you eat processed food? Do you eat out? Isn't this the same thing? If you were that concerned you'd eat only food that you've gathered on your own from your own garden, hunt your own meat or fish for your own fish. I highly doubt that you do that though on a daily basis.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
Lol, do you eat processed food? Do you eat out? Isn't this the same thing? If you were that concerned you'd eat only food that you've gathered on your own from your own garden, hunt your own meat or fish for your own fish. I highly doubt that you do that though on a daily basis.

I don't do any of that. Never said I did.

Why are you changing the subject? This thread is about drug use.
 

MW0082

Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
But many drugs do not lead to making poor decisions about these specific spheres of action. What exactly is harmful about smoking a joint and then proceeding to beat Gran Turismo 4 on the hardest setting?
Absolutely nothing, the War on Drugs is personal preference that have made it into government and religion. Take for example Amsterdam, they legalize drugs and prostitution and the crime rate drops by 70%. It's a shame that people have to enforce their own beliefs onto others.

I whole heartedly agree that certain drugs should not be allowed, for they lead to people doing horrible things. As far as natural drugs on this planet. Should be legal, illegalizing drugs and prostitution creates criminals and violence......

It's your life, and if you want to get high then by all means spark up.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
I don't do any of that. Never said I did.

Why are you changing the subject? This thread is about drug use.

It's a good point to make. Some processed foods and some fast foods are considerably more potentially dangerous to the body than many drugs.
 

Circle_One

Well-Known Member
***Mod Post: Hey Lovies, let's try to keep this thread on the legal side of the topic and remember Rule #6, Shall We?***

6. Illegal Activities
Discussions about your engagement in or encouragement for others to participate in any illegal activity is prohibited. This includes the use of illegal Drugs, infringement of intellectual property rights; including, music, software, or literature, photographs etc. It also covers Terrorism and all violent crime. And criminal activities. These Topics may be discussed and debated in a way that does not promote an illegal activity.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
black markets exist because of government interference. and the only reason that black market drug sales exist is because of government interference in drug sales. you dont seem to understand that criminalizing individuals who participate in a victimless crime tends to embolden them toward more dangerous crime.

I would never call marijuana use a "victimless crime". It is most unfortunate that so many people disagree.

I will agree that the perception of it as such does indeed embolden people towards disrespecting the law, however. I see that as an argument against criminalizing abortion, but the parallel with drug use, obvious as it is, is way too flawed to stand on its own.

if you tell someone they are a criminal for doing something that isn't wrong, you blur the lines of right and wrong by replacing them with legal and illegal. that's just plain irresponsible.

Yes, it is. But marijuana use does put one's health and that of others under risk, so it shouldn't be treated as "not wrong".

particularly in the case of pot, we're talking about moral propaganda used to help fuel the sales of pharmaceuticals and the perpetuation of a police state. and legalization would eliminate the illegal trade of marijuana. simple as that. no more gangs, no more dealers, no more incredibly inflated prices, and no more shipping high-school kids off to jail so that they can become addicted to more potent drugs.

And maybe it would finally then become a higher problem than alcohol use.

as for the 'gateway-drug' argument, it HAD to have come from someone who's never smoked pot. someone said in this thread that lower-impact drugs lose their fun as use progresses and i seriously burst out laughing. i've smoked pot consistently for years and have never once even though about using 'harder' drugs - and have never been disappointed with the effect the giggle-bush has had on me. all of these theories are completely fabricated by people who don't really have any good reason to demonize marijuana use, yet have plenty of financial reasons.

With all due respect, how certain can you be that your experience is representative? Besides, drug use is caused by deeper factors, and in this respect I think Marijuana use can well be dangerous for much the same reasons that legal prescribed drugs such as Valium are.

Maybe I would be more sympathetic to Marijuana if it were treated as a prescription drug. But I am adamantly against recreational use of mind-altering drugs in general principle, and of course Marijuana is no exception.
 

MW0082

Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
I would never call marijuana use a "victimless crime". It is most unfortunate that so many people disagree.
It absolutely is a victimless crime, the only reason there ARE victims is because it is illegal. If it were legal the crime rate would drop significantly.




Yes, it is. But marijuana use does put one's health and that of others under risk, so it shouldn't be treated as "not wrong".

No it doesn't, the only thing marijuanna use does is get tar in the lungs. Since the tar has NO chemicals it's easier to get out. Smoking marijuana is perfectly harmless compared to ANY OTHER LEGAL SUBSTANCE OUT THERE.....

And maybe it would finally then become a higher problem than alcohol use.

That will NEVER happen. Drinking cause way more damage to the body, and mind. Not to mention all the idiots who drink and drive. Most people can smoke and drive, no one can drink and drive. It affects your vision and motor skills,....

With all due respect, how certain can you be that your experience is representative? Besides, drug use is caused by deeper factors, and in this respect I think Marijuana use can well be dangerous for much the same reasons that legal prescribed drugs such as Valium are.

How, it can't kill anyone. Never has and never will. You have to smoke a ton in an hour to OD. Which obviously will never happen. So how can it be even remotely dangerous...?? I am very interested in seeing this perception....

Maybe I would be more sympathetic to Marijuana if it were treated as a prescription drug. But I am adamantly against recreational use of mind-altering drugs in general principle, and of course Marijuana is no exception.

It is a prescription drug, and is better for you than alcohol and cigerrattes combined. Not to mention HELPS people, and also could help the economy. Fine you don't personnally like drugs, but it's not YOUR life, why rain on someone elses parade?
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Why are many of the religious opposed to drug use? Can any of you give an argument based solely around your scriptures?

The Baha'i scriptures explicitly prohibit--and indeed, condemn--use of any sort of drug that interferes with the functioning of the mind!

Such substances are therefore prohibited for the best of reasons.

Peace,

Bruce
 

jmvizanko

Uber Tool
The Baha'i scriptures explicitly prohibit--and indeed, condemn--use of any sort of drug that interferes with the functioning of the mind!

Well you need to define "inerference with the functioning of the mind." Because most drugs don't stop your ability to think, they just temporarily alter the way the mind does think, and in some cases in ways that lead to creative insight by seeing things from a different perspective, awe of beautiful effects on the perception of reality and dreamlike hallucinations, and more enjoyment of certain activities, especially personally, sex while high.
 

MW0082

Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Well you need to define "inerference with the functioning of the mind." Because most drugs don't stop your ability to think, they just temporarily alter the way the mind does think, and in some cases in ways that lead to creative insight by seeing things from a different perspective, awe of beautiful effects on the perception of reality and dreamlike hallucinations, and more enjoyment of certain activities, especially personally, sex while high.
I agree, drugs do not intefere with your thinking, simply change the way you actually think. This is a good thing, to be able to bput things in a perspective you otherwise would miss.

I smoke marijuana everyday. Not because I am addict or a scumbag or anything else associated with drugs in a negative light. I smoke because it keeps my depression at bay, it helps me eat.If I did not smoke I would not eat, be very depressed and never sleep. I have been on plenty of meds, and none of them can accomplish what marijauna can. Not to mention all the negative side affects I had on them...
 
Yes, it is. But marijuana use does put one's health and that of others under risk, so it shouldn't be treated as "not wrong".
marijuana's health risks are remarkably small in comparison to plenty of activities that are perfectly legal (at least in the US).
and what risks does marijuana put others under? with the exception of second hand smoke (which is as likely around a campfire or outside a no-smoking bar), driving while intoxicated (which is already a legally regulated activity in regards to illegal drugs AND legal ones), and smoking during pregnancy (something easier to stop than cigarettes, since marijuana is not chemically addictive) there are really no risk to anyone who's not smoking themselves (while i must maintain that the risk of the smoker is minimal, due to smaller doses than most drugs and it's general lack of harmful physical affects).


With all due respect, how certain can you be that your experience is representative?
you're absolutely right, i dont pretend to have overarching knowledge on the subject because it's more or less data i've gathered from actually being in social smoking situations, and i can't claim to know the minds of everyone using this particular leaf. mainly because the minds of most smokers will never be probed due to it's illegality.

but speaking of things that are not representative across the board:
Besides, drug use is caused by deeper factors, and in this respect I think Marijuana use can well be dangerous for much the same reasons that legal prescribed drugs such as Valium are.
self medication is not the only reason that people have for utilizing substances that they enjoy. some people (and i can attest to this personally) simply like the effect. it's not because of daddy issues or anxiety or a desire to escape, it's because it has shown results that certain people enjoy.

Maybe I would be more sympathetic to Marijuana if it were treated as a prescription drug. But I am adamantly against recreational use of mind-altering drugs in general principle, and of course Marijuana is no exception.
if marijuana was by prescription only then growing it would be out of the question, therefore the drug trade would still remain stable, and the pharmaceutical companies driving the drug war would still remain stable and flourishing. the people would still be left in the same position they are in.
 

tomato1236

Ninja Master
Here is why, from my scriptures, I don't use drugs. Many things apply, though not specifically mentioned herein. Also, discipline and self-control/mastery are core principles in my religion. using addictive substances undermines self-control.

SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.


8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.


9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.


10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
 

MW0082

Jesus 4 Profit.... =)~
Here is why, from my scriptures, I don't use drugs. Many things apply, though not specifically mentioned herein. Also, discipline and self-control/mastery are core principles in my religion. using addictive substances undermines self-control.

SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.


8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.


9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.


10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.

12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
Marijuana is not addictive, so you know....
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
I don't do any of that. Never said I did.

Why are you changing the subject? This thread is about drug use.
You speak of "polluting the temple" and if you knew about the chemical lacing that is in processed food, you would know that many of the chemicals aren't natural. Isn't that "polluting" the body then if you consume it?
 
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