Egyptian lawyer sues Netflix over Queen Cleopatra

[Revoltingest]

In the news....

Cleopatra was light-skinned, Egypt tells Netflix in row over drama

Casting of black actor in upcoming docudrama has angered groups in Egypt who say it is ‘a falsification of Egyptian history’

www.theguardian.com

Excerpted....
Amid a Twitter storm on the subject, James, who has appeared in the British hospital drama Casualty, said: “If you don’t like the casting, don’t watch the show.”

Tudum, the official companion site to Netflix, earlier this week quoted the producers of the series as saying: “Her ethnicity is not the focus of [the series] Queen Cleopatra, but we did intentionally decide to depict her of mixed ethnicity to reflect theories about Cleopatra’s possible Egyptian ancestry and the multicultural nature of ancient Egypt.”

It had worked with leading historians and experts including Shelley Haley, professor of classics and African studies at Hamilton College in New York, and the Cleopatra scholar Sally-Ann Ashton to “explore Cleopatra’s story as a queen, strategist, ruler of formidable intellect as well as a woman whose heritage is the subject of great debate”, they said.

 

[Estro Felino]

In the news....

Cleopatra was light-skinned, Egypt tells Netflix in row over drama

Casting of black actor in upcoming docudrama has angered groups in Egypt who say it is ‘a falsification of Egyptian history’

www.theguardian.com

Excerpted....
Amid a Twitter storm on the subject, James, who has appeared in the British hospital drama Casualty, said: “If you don’t like the casting, don’t watch the show.”

Tudum, the official companion site to Netflix, earlier this week quoted the producers of the series as saying: “Her ethnicity is not the focus of [the series] Queen Cleopatra, but we did intentionally decide to depict her of mixed ethnicity to reflect theories about Cleopatra’s possible Egyptian ancestry and the multicultural nature of ancient Egypt.”

It had worked with leading historians and experts including Shelley Haley, professor of classics and African studies at Hamilton College in New York, and the Cleopatra scholar Sally-Ann Ashton to “explore Cleopatra’s story as a queen, strategist, ruler of formidable intellect as well as a woman whose heritage is the subject of great debate”, they said.

It's not absolutely true.
Because Netflix made another series about Queen Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz.
Do the actors look like WASPs to you?
So it has nothing to do with historical reality. It has to do with demonstrating inclusiveness. Both in this series and in Cleopatra.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not absolutely true.

No "docudrama" is absolutely true.
They're imagined portrayals based upon real events.
Don't like'm?
Don't watch'm.
Simple as that.
Egyptians....such sensitive snowflakes.

 

[Estro Felino]

No "docudrama" is absolutely true.
They're imagined portrayals based upon real events.
Don't like'm?
Don't watch'm.
Simple as that.
Egyptians....such sensitive snowflakes.

No...history cannot be rewritten and that docudrama is trying to rewrite history.

It has nothing to do with the actress, who is surely talented and beautiful.
That's the thing: Cleopatra was not that beautiful. But men chose her because of her intelligence and inner qualities.

 

[Revoltingest]

No...history cannot be rewritten and that docudrama is trying to rewrite history.

It has nothing to do with the actress, who is surely talented and beautiful.
That's the thing: Cleopatra was not that beautiful. But men chose her because of her intelligence and inner qualities.

History is re-written all the time.
Everyone (except Egyptians) knows that docu-dramas are fictional.
Actual historical events just provide a loose framework.
Foreigners don't understand Hollywood.
It's not scholarly....except for Buckaroo Banzai, Across The 8th Dimension.

 

[Nakosis]

Egyptian lawyer sues Netflix over Queen Cleopatra - Egypt Independent

Egyptian lawyer Mahmoud al-Semary filed a case with the Public Prosecutor to shut down the Netflix platform in Egypt, following the trailer release of “Queen Cleopatra,” a new documentary depicting the historical figure as a black woman.

www.egyptindependent.com

QUEEN CLEOPATRA: Netflix Sued By Egyptian Lawyer For Blackwashing History – Greek City Times

An Egyptian lawyer has filed a case with the Public Prosecutor to close the Netflix platform after the trailer of “Queen Cleopatra" was released, which

greekcitytimes.com

I've heard of "whitewashing" history, but I've never heard of "blackwashing" history before now.





I've read that Cleopatra and the Ptolemies were of Greek origin, although they were in Egypt for centuries before Cleopatra was born. This other article (Inside The Cleopatra 'Race Controversy' — And Why Some Believe That She Was Black) examines the question, but the answer is that no one really knows.

I haven't had Netflix in years, not since they dropped The Rockford Files from their lineup. So, I have not seen this latest production about Cleopatra.

Could Cleopatra have been black? Does this Egyptian lawyer have a viable case? I'd be interested in hearing @Debater Slayer's take on this.

What do you think about this case?

Cleopatra has drawn a great deal of fascination from popular culture, although I wonder how much of it is legend and how much is actual history.

Here's an idea. If you find the way a character is portrayed in a movie offensive, don't watch it.

 

[Stevicus]

Here's an idea. If you find the way a character is portrayed in a movie offensive, don't watch it.

I don't have Netflix anymore, so I'm not likely to watch it anytime soon. Although I don't find it personally offensive, I can recognize that some people might take issue with it. Your cavalier "love it or leave it" response is cute, but I don't find anything wrong in pointing out historical inaccuracies in a production such as this.

I remember when the 1997 movie Titanic came out, they were touting it as thoroughly researched and historically accurate (except for the fictional love story, of course), but as I recall, historians had a field day pointing out all the errors they made.

 

[Nakosis]

I don't have Netflix anymore, so I'm not likely to watch it anytime soon. Although I don't find it personally offensive, I can recognize that some people might take issue with it. Your cavalier "love it or leave it" response is cute, but I don't find anything wrong in pointing out historical inaccuracies in a production such as this.

I remember when the 1997 movie Titanic came out, they were touting it as thoroughly researched and historically accurate (except for the fictional love story, of course), but as I recall, historians had a field day pointing out all the errors they made.

You're not suing Netflix over it either.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Here's an idea. If you find the way a character is portrayed in a movie offensive, don't watch it.

No "docudrama" is absolutely true.
They're imagined portrayals based upon real events.
Don't like'm?
Don't watch'm.
Simple as that.

One can avoid watching them while also pointing out their problematic (in this case, Afrocentric) inaccuracies. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The issues with the depiction go far beyond merely being something offensive where not watching it would suffice to address it. I have gone over those issues and the larger context in more detail throughout this thread.

I wouldn't support banning the series, but I support the efforts to respond to its historical inaccuracies and to point out why they're problematic.

History is re-written all the time.
Everyone (except Egyptians) knows that docu-dramas are fictional.
Actual historical events just provide a loose framework.
Foreigners don't understand Hollywood.
It's not scholarly....except for Buckaroo Banzai, Across The 8th Dimension.

The description of the show definitely doesn't sound like it aims to present the show as entirely fictional, and considering that the depiction it presents directly aligns with Afrocentric claims, it makes sense to me that a lot of people are not viewing it as just an inconsequential fictional work.

Also, a lot of people take their impressions and "information" from mass media, and we both know that many don't fact-check what they see. Even fictional and semi-fictional media could have tangible effects in the long term.

Egyptians....such sensitive snowflakes.

Is there any useful point to denigrating an entire population that I missed here?

 

[Revoltingest]

One can avoid watching them while also pointing out their problematic (in this case, Afrocentric) inaccuracies. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The issues with the depiction go far beyond merely being something offensive where not watching it would suffice to address it. I have gone over those issues and the larger context in more detail throughout this thread.

I wouldn't support banning the series, but I support the efforts to respond to its historical inaccuracies and to point out why they're problematic.



The description of the show definitely doesn't sound like it aims to present the show as entirely fictional, and considering that the depiction it presents directly aligns with Afrocentric claims, it makes sense to me that a lot of people are not viewing it as just an inconsequential fictional work.

Also, a lot of people take their impressions and "information" from mass media, and we both know that many don't fact-check what they see. Even fictional and semi-fictional media could have tangible effects in the long term.



Is there any useful point to denigrating an entire population that I missed here?

It's called a "docudrama".
Such things are done all the time.
No one gives them credence.
One big nothingburger.

 

[Debater Slayer]

It's called a "docudrama".
Such things are done all the time.
No one gives them credence.
One big nothingburger.

It's not a nothingburger when one examines the larger context surrounding it, but at this point I'm repeating what I have already explained earlier in the thread.

Also, you didn't respond to this:

Is there any useful point to denigrating an entire population that I missed here?

I don't appreciate negative or denigrating generalizations about entire populations, and that includes Americans as much as it does Egyptians.

 

[Nakosis]

One can avoid watching them while also pointing out their problematic (in this case, Afrocentric) inaccuracies. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The issues with the depiction go far beyond merely being something offensive where not watching it would suffice to address it. I have gone over those issues and the larger context in more detail throughout this thread.

I wouldn't support banning the series, but I support the efforts to respond to its historical inaccuracies and to point out why they're problematic.

Ok, they should probably label it as a docufiction.
Perhaps the producers don't understand the genre well enough.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ok, they should probably label it as a docufiction.
Perhaps the producers don't understand the genre well enough.

Maybe, but they could have responded more respectfully to the criticism instead of becoming self-righteous and patronizing in response.

I almost exclusively watch horror either way, so I won't even have to go out of my way to avoid this show.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's not a nothingburger when one examines the larger context surrounding it, but at this point I'm repeating what I have already explained earlier in the thread.

You attribute too much significance & effect to a TV show.

Also, you didn't respond to this:


I don't appreciate negative or denigrating generalizations about entire populations, and that includes Americans as much as it does Egyptians.

Because it seemed a histrionic complaint.
If you actually believe this (as stated), I wouldn't be able to counter it anyway.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You attribute too much significance & effect to a TV show.

I have already clarified why I don't believe this is the case, so I won't repeat the point. I have already detailed it in earlier posts.

Because it seemed a histrionic complaint.
If you actually believe this (as stated), I wouldn't be able to counter it anyway.

So you found it appropriate to denigrate an entire population because you decided a complaint a subset thereof made was "histrionic"?

Imagine what people from other countries would say about Americans if they used the same MO. Thankfully, many of us know better than to overgeneralize in that manner.

 

[Estro Felino]

I remember when the 1997 movie Titanic came out, they were touting it as thoroughly researched and historically accurate (except for the fictional love story, of course), but as I recall, historians had a field day pointing out all the errors they made.

If there hadn't been Di Caprio and the love story with Katy Winslet...I guess not many people would have gone to the theaters to watch it...

 

[Revoltingest]

I have already clarified why I don't believe this is the case, so I won't repeat the point. I have already detailed it in earlier posts.



So you found it appropriate to denigrate an entire population because you decided a complaint a subset thereof made was "histrionic"?

Imagine what people from other countries would say about Americans if they used the same MO. Thankfully, many of us know better than to overgeneralize in that manner.

I don't see anyone being denigrated.
But I begin to suspect that Egyptians might have
more going on than just insisting on (debatable)
historical accuracy. Such outrage over fiction in
USA must have another source.
I searched....

The Reality of Racism in Egypt

What's it like to be a black woman in Egypt? Valentina Primo meets three professionals and hears the harrowing tales of modern day prejudice in every aspect of their lives.

cairoscene.com

Fleeing war, poverty, African migrants face racism in Egypt

CAIRO (AP) — Two Sudanese sisters, Seham and Ekhlas Bashir, were walking their children home from elementary school in a Cairo neighborhood when a group of Egyptian teenagers crowded around them.

apnews.com

 

[Nakosis]

Maybe, but they could have responded more respectfully to the criticism instead of becoming self-righteous and patronizing in response.

I almost exclusively watch horror either way, so I won't even have to go out of my way to avoid this show.

Hollywood used to put out good movies.
Now they seem to feel entitled.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't see anyone being denigrated.

So "sensitive snowflakes" isn't denigrating? Would you be okay with someone calling you that on the forums?

But I begin to suspect that Egyptians might have
more going on than just insisting on (debatable)
historical accuracy. Such outrage over fiction in
USA must have another source.

It is primarily due to the years of tension between Afrocentrists—who claim current Egyptians are descended from "invaders" or "colonialists" and have no historical connection to our history and nation—and scholars from Egypt and elsewhere who have responded to such claims with historical and genetic evidence demonstrating otherwise. There's a much deeper backdrop to this than just one show.

You'll notice that no other Netflix production has had this much visible opposition from Egyptians. As long as the production doesn't try to take sides in one of Egypt's longer-term tensions—the side of unevidenced and demonizing narratives—barely anyone will care.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hollywood used to put out good movies.
Now they seem to feel entitled.

Hollywood always put out a mixture, mostly
pedestrian, some bad, & a few good. It's
still that way. Enjoy good productions.
Skip the rest.