Egyptian lawyer sues Netflix over Queen Cleopatra

[Revoltingest]

The whole idea thag Egyptians are black is like those who would say we're Jewish for our Celtic heritage, which according to thise believe this we actually have Jewish heritage and not Celtic.

Who is claiming that Egyptians are black?
That would seem at odds with pix we see from that country.
But blacks do live there too.

Plus the hypocrisy of those who complain when a white person portrays a character who isn't white. Cleopatra wasn't black but rather a Greek Mediterranean white girl.

Many people complain about race of actors.
Complaints aren't evidence of anything one way or the other.
BTW, I don't know what race/races she was.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who is claiming that Egyptians are black?

The documentary mentioned in the OP, as well as some names attached to it.

BTW, I don't know what race/races she was.

It's been mentioned at least a dozen times. She was Greek, specifically Macedonian, of the Ptolemiac dynasty.

Ptolemaic dynasty - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Ptolemaic dynasty (/ˌtɒlɪˈmeɪ.ɪk/; Ancient Greek: Πτολεμαῖοι, Ptolemaioi), sometimes referred to as the Lagid dynasty (Λαγίδαι, Lagidae; after Ptolemy I's father, Lagus), was a Macedonian Greek[1][2][3][4][5] royal dynasty which ruled the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Ancient Egypt during the Hellenistic period. Their rule lasted for 275 years, from 305 to 30 BC.[6] The Ptolemaic was the last dynasty of ancient Egypt.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt

Like the earlier dynasties of ancient Egypt, the Ptolemaic dynasty practiced inbreeding including sibling marriage, but this did not start in earnest until nearly a century into the dynasty's history.[7] All the male rulers of the dynasty took the name Ptolemy, while queens regnant were all called Cleopatra, Arsinoe or Berenice. The most famous member of the line was the last queen, Cleopatra VII, known for her role in the Roman political battles between Julius Caesar and Pompey, and later between Octavian and Mark Antony. Her apparent suicide at the conquest by Rome marked the end of Ptolemaic rule in Egypt.

 

[Revoltingest]

The documentary mentioned in the OP, as well as some names attached to it.

If you've seen it, how specific is the claim.

It's been mentioned at least a dozen times. She was Greek, specifically Macedonian, of the Ptolemiac dynasty.

Ptolemaic dynasty - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ancient Egypt - Wikipedia

So it would make sense that they chose a mixed race actor.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you've seen it, how specific is the claim.


So it would make sense that they chose a mixed race actor.

It's portraying her as if she's a black queen. That's their intentions. But she wasn't black. That's definitely not accurate. If anything she was queen of an ancient Mediterranean super power.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's portraying her as if she's a black queen. That's their intentions. But she wasn't black. That's definitely not accurate. If anything she was queen of an ancient Mediterranean super power.

You expect accuracy in a docudrama?

 

[We Never Know]

You expect accuracy in a docudrama?

Would it be ok if a documentary of Rosa Parks used anyone but an afro-american woman?

 

[Revoltingest]

Would it be ok if a documentary of Rosa Parks used anyone but an afro-american woman?

I wouldn't care.
But there'd be a huge outcry.
One big difference is that Parks's race is
far more established than Cleopatra's.

 

[We Never Know]

I wouldn't care.
But there'd be a huge outcry.
One big difference is that Parks's race is
far more established than Cleopatra's.

You wouldn't care. I wouldn't care.... but millions would.

 

[Revoltingest]

You would care.

So you say.
But you don't know.

 

[We Never Know]

So you say.
But you don't know.

My bad. It should say "you wouldnt care".

Fixed.

 

[Revoltingest]

My bad. It should say "you wouldnt care".

Fixed.

That's better.
I also proofread after posting.
If Idris Elba can play Heimdall, why not Smith as Cleopatra, eh.

 

[We Never Know]

That's better.
I also proofread after posting.

I actually wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't said something. The power of conversation is amazing lol

 

[Estro Felino]

If they had cast an Egyptian girl, like this one...of course nobody would have objected.
Because we are talking about ethnography here, and it's a matter of physical features that are compatible with a Greek woman living in Egypt.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I wouldn't care.
But there'd be a huge outcry.
One big difference is that Parks's race is
far more established than Cleopatra's.

It is established though. She would have looked like most people in that region of Mediterranean exchange. Egyptian, Arabic, Turkish, Greek and Roman/Italian all mingled a whole bunch and a lot over the centuries and millenniums. She may have even passed for white. But probably not too much different from an average Ottoman Sultan since most of them probably had Greek mothers. And Turkish people don't look that much different from Egyptians.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is established though. She would have looked like most people in that region of Mediterranean exchange. Egyptian, Arabic, Turkish, Greek and Roman/Italian all mingled a whole bunch and a lot over the centuries and millenniums. She may have even passed for white. But probably not too much different from an average Ottoman Sultan since most of them probably had Greek mothers. And Turkish people don't look that much different from Egyptians.

I've no expertise to argue about her race.
I'm interested in the motives for why the
dispute is so fervent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I've no expertise to argue about her race.
I'm interested in the motives for why the
dispute is so fervent.

Because it's the documentary makers and those endorsing it are supporting a false history that claims the Egyptians aren't actually Egyptians but rather black people were they real ancient Egyptians (they believe, wrongly, that Egyptians today are descendants of Arabic invaders). It's just as offensive as those who say the Jews aren't really Jews but rather it being a European or African group who are the real Jews.
They're passing off a false ethnocentric narrative as if it has any credibility. Amd it's brazen hypocrisy that this flies in age where many consider the actor being the wrong skin color a serious offense. But this is more than that as they're trying to rewrite history.

 

[syo]

What do you think about this case?

Really now??? It's tv show, fgs!

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't think this series wants to focus on Cleopatra's inner strength, nobility and intelligence. Just on her appearance.
HBO Rome is much better.
This show portrays the most credible and historically reliable Cleopatra I have ever seen.
Octavian was really envious of her, and he couldn't accept that a woman was more intelligent and politically capable than him. But more importantly, he couldn't accept that Mark Anthony had preferred a Greek queen over his own sister.
He sought and unleashed a civil war, a war on the Hellenic world, a war on the East that put Romans against Romans.
And yes, he deserved what Cleopatra tells him here

 

[Stevicus]

Really now??? It's tv show, fgs!

Yes, that's true. Although one memorable quote from Herman Wouk always stuck with me: “It may grieve the judicious that the great public learns much of its history from works of entertainment. But such is the case.”

 

[Revoltingest]

Because it's the documentary makers....

Check how Netflix describes it as a "docudrama", not a "documentary".
That misunderstanding appears to underlie much of the anger.

Watch Queen Cleopatra | Netflix Official Site

As Egypt's last pharaoh, Cleopatra fights to protect her throne, family and legacy in this docudrama featuring reenactments and expert interviews.

www.netflix.com

Excerpted....
As Egypt's last pharaoh, Cleopatra fights to protect
her throne, family and legacy in this docudrama
featuring reenactments and expert interviews.

If you think Netflix is bad, check out Shakespeare's
playing fast & loose with history.