Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Of course not.
Modern Muslims who reinterpret the Koran to suit them and who don't accept the authentic hadiths and tafsirs are a minority group and are considered heretics by mainstream Islam.
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Errors in the Quran
- Thread starter Truthisnotyourenemy
- Start date
Of course not.
Modern Muslims who reinterpret the Koran to suit them and who don't accept the authentic hadiths and tafsirs are a minority group and are considered heretics by mainstream Islam.
... but they are still Muslims.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
Whatever Mr troll....
I've been cursed by some of the holiest men on earth. You'll have to work harder.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
The same way Jehovah's Witnesses' are Christians.
AmbiguousGuy
Well-Known Member
JWs are the only true Christians. All others are heretics.
That's what I heard anyway.
Farrukh
Active Member
I think you are saying this thing only because you can't find such type of miracles at present, Allah blessed his messengers with many supernatural things. Allah saved Prophet Abraham in fire, Allah gave life to dead people through Prophet Jesus, Allah gave Prophet Sulaiman such a high power over his creature that was never ever given to anyone else, list goes on, you don't find these things true because Science is totally blank about these things,
why I should accept that these things were never happened?
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Farrukh
Active Member
that was the option given to his creatures, man accepted it because he just thought about huge palaces where he will live forever and he forgot tests that will come in this life.
there is answer for people who think in the way you are thinking,
"The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts [ Allah ] by His praise, but you do not understand their [way of] exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving."Quran 17:44
it means everything in universe including mountains is praising Him, but we can't see how they are praising.
And Allah mentions in another verse
"Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly." Quran 41:11
Now we can see they are left with no option, Allah just ordered earth and it was having no option except to fulfill Allah's command.
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Farrukh
Active Member
Allah says in Holy Quran, “And when the peoples of Gog and Magog are let loose and swarm swiftly from every highland, when the True Promise draws near, the disbelievers’ eyes will stare in terror, and they will say, ‘Woe to us! We were not aware of this at all. We were wrong.” Quran 21: 96-97
Regarding location of Gog and Magog, there is Divine Wisdom in not revealing their location until time will come, according to saying of Holy Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him, coming out of Gog and Magog will be from one of the ten major signs near end of time.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
The Koran claims they refused to take on the trust. Mountains don't have the intelligence to make decisions.
The Koran said mountains feel fear, mountains don't have emotions.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Red herring.
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Ok, you're right. All Muslims think just alike or they're heretics.
On certain issues, yes they would be.
If they deny hadiths, or certain laws in an Islamic state they would be in trouble.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
Not true considering the Qur'an is written in classical Arabic which is like old English. The sadj script it is written in does not benefit it and the Qur'an is still rendered gibberish if you compare it to modern Arabic. Why on earth do you think a tafsir are used? Without a tafsir it could not be translated properly.
The Qur'an has numerous contradictions but a lot of it rests on the fact it assumes the reader to know things outside of it's own meaning which is how we get ahadith and the ta'wil. Me along with other murtadina who have moderate to full understanding of Arabic will easily say the same thing. How on earth do you think the Qur'aniyun came about?
the tafsir is an explianation in English , so there is different explainations
there is old (commun) tafsir , and modern tafsir , they may different but they never contradict each other
for exemple there is no tafsir said God maybe be 3 or more than one God...etc
you know what i mean ,now ?
OneTwo
Member
Hi everyone,
Thought i'd shed some light on a few things here regarding the story of Gog and Magog:
1. Dhul Qarnayn was not a prophet, he was a king. There has never been a direct mention of him being a prophet nor did God mention him by this title.
2. I completely agree with your viewpoint that seeing this miracle wall in todays day and age where we have the technology to see things in outer space should be easy and doable, after all it is a great big iron wall - AGREE
3. However many muslims believe that Gog and Magog have already been released and therefore there IS NO WALL
4. 'The wall would turn into dust in the last hour before the Final day' - Im para phrasing but the 'last hour' does not literally mean the last hour or year of our lives. The time frame for which an 'hour' cannot be defined. Muslims believe one day in the heavens is equal to 70,000 years of our lives, (it is a very rough estimate - again not entirely agreed upon, this figure is not important at all, just making the point that the 'last hour' is not definable)
5. Gog and Magog are not creatures as many people think, they are the names of two tribes of people (so please don't come to me with where are these monsters causing corruption today) - corruption is strife in the modern age
With regard to the Whale story:
1. If a miracle was to happen, why are we trying to scientifically see if there was enough oxygen or acid or or or when it is a miracle
2. A miracle is something that is outstanding, occurs with absolute no regard to the scientific laws. (this means that it could or could not abide by them)
I'd be pleased to talk more about these if you wish to do so privately or in front of everyone, i don't like to argue so keep peaceful and open-minded
Thought i'd shed some light on a few things here regarding the story of Gog and Magog:
1. Dhul Qarnayn was not a prophet, he was a king. There has never been a direct mention of him being a prophet nor did God mention him by this title.
2. I completely agree with your viewpoint that seeing this miracle wall in todays day and age where we have the technology to see things in outer space should be easy and doable, after all it is a great big iron wall - AGREE
3. However many muslims believe that Gog and Magog have already been released and therefore there IS NO WALL
4. 'The wall would turn into dust in the last hour before the Final day' - Im para phrasing but the 'last hour' does not literally mean the last hour or year of our lives. The time frame for which an 'hour' cannot be defined. Muslims believe one day in the heavens is equal to 70,000 years of our lives, (it is a very rough estimate - again not entirely agreed upon, this figure is not important at all, just making the point that the 'last hour' is not definable)
5. Gog and Magog are not creatures as many people think, they are the names of two tribes of people (so please don't come to me with where are these monsters causing corruption today) - corruption is strife in the modern age
With regard to the Whale story:
1. If a miracle was to happen, why are we trying to scientifically see if there was enough oxygen or acid or or or when it is a miracle
2. A miracle is something that is outstanding, occurs with absolute no regard to the scientific laws. (this means that it could or could not abide by them)
I'd be pleased to talk more about these if you wish to do so privately or in front of everyone, i don't like to argue so keep peaceful and open-minded
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Hello and welcome!
Whether or not he was a prophet doesn't really matter.
He was the man with the help of God who made a substantial iron wall filling up the space between two mountain sides.
Well these Muslims clearly are being dishonest as this makes no sense.
According to this this interpretation the final hour can mean anything, this is laughable.
This really is absurd reasoning to rationalise this story.
Clearly a day means a day in this context and the last hour means exactly that too.
Here is the verse:
018.099
YUSUFALI: On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together.
The Koran makes it clear that on a specific day these people will be let loose on earth and the trumpet will be blown.
They will appear from everywhere all of a sudden and create havoc instantly and this will be a clear sign to mankind that judgement day has begun.
This is explained in the following two verses:
021.096/97
YUSUFALI: Until the Gog and Magog (people) are let through (their barrier), and they swiftly swarm from every hill.
Then will the true promise draw nigh (of fulfilment): then behold! the eyes of the Unbelievers will fixedly stare in horror: "Ah! Woe to us! we were indeed heedless of this; nay, we truly did wrong!"
When these people are let through the barriers they will swarm from every hill and the disbeliever will see this and recognise this sign as the last hour and will admit they did wrong.
Which of course is not happening now.
Therefore, according to the Koran this wall must clearly exist.
There are also hadiths that say Jesus will return before the people of Gog and Magog will be released and mentions other signs that have not yet occurred in regards to the final hour.
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Assad91
Shi'ah Ali
Whose interpretation is the one and only you seem to think there is? Because many groups interpretation differ, even using Quran going into differing doctrines.
Whose authentic hadiths are overwhelmingly held as a pillar of the faith, making its denial heresy? Because there are different groups with different collections, and different standards of what makes the hadith authentic.
And whose collection of tafsir is a pillar? Is it the Sunnis' collection or Shias'? And then which author is the infallible writer of this tafsir and therefore forced on all?
Truthisnotyourenemy
Member
Please stop it going 11 pages:
As I've mentioned before The Koran describes the world just as you would expect from a 7th century desert dweller, not from an all knowing God.
One myth that was popular back then was that people believed the sky was a solid canopy like structure.
The ancient world generally believed the sky was solid:
Astonishing as it may seem to the modern mind, with very rare excep-
tions the idea that the sky is not solid is a distinctly modern one. Historical
evidence shows that virtually everyone in the ancient world believed in a
solid firmament.
http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hil ... nt-WTJ.pdf
People did not realize how far away the heavens really were. It seemed reasonable to them that the sky was a canopy whose edges touched the surface of Earth..
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/scitech....cfm?ST_ID=525
Now does the Koran agree?!
Unsurprisingly yes:
02.22: PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy;
The above verse is asking its 7th century who has created the sky a canopy.
Note the emphasis is not on their existence but on who created them after all they already believed the sky is a solid canopy.
No one reading the verse back then would have raised an eyebrow that the sky was described as a canopy as this is what they already believed and the Koran only confirms this.
The following verse describes the sky as roof which again is what ancient people believed back then. It also claims such a roof was a sign to them:
021.032
PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.
So what canopy/roof was a sign to people who already believed in a solid sky?
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