Establishing the Creator (Atheist runs away when Muslim asks probing questions)

[Storm]

i don't want you to be annoyed from me,we are just enjoy debating.

Yes,the details you gave is helpful to distinguish between the 3,
thanks a lot and frubals to you too,friends now,deal

Cool, thanks.

Nothing personal. You know that, right?

 

[FearGod]

Cool, thanks.

Nothing personal. You know that, right?

sure,thanks storm,you are great lady.

 

[Storm]

Thanks.

 

[FearGod]

I'm a skeptic but if he were to show up and start talking to me then I'd believe he exists

Even if he showed you himself,you'll still be skeptic.
Let me show you how you'll think.

if he came to talk to you and he said to you 9Westy9 follow islam,Mohammed was my messenger and you should follow him,then he disappeared.

What you'll think,will you follow islam ? or you'll still think and think and think.

 

[Storm]

Even if he showed you himself,you'll still be skeptic.
Let me show you how you'll think.

if he came to talk to you and he said to you 9Westy9 follow islam,Mohammed was my messenger and you should follow him,then he disappeared.

What you'll think,will you follow islam ? or you'll still think and think and think.

Please, stop. Just stop.

It is totally indefensible to call someone a liar by correcting HIS explanation of HIS thought process.

 

[FearGod]

Please, stop. Just stop.

It is totally indefensible to call someone a liar by correcting HIS explanation of HIS thought process.

i asked a question and where did i say a liar to someone,but to be skeptic is completely a different thing.

i am leaving this thread because it becomes tedious for me.

Peace

 

[Storm]

i asked a question and where did i say a liar to someone,but to be skeptic is completely a different thing.

i am leaving this thread because it becomes tedious for me.

Peace

Last ditch effort:

"No, that's not what you think, this is what you think" is functionally identical to "You're a ******* liar."

Now, unless you can demonstrate that someone said something false, or contradicted themselves from one statement to another, this is totally inexcusable.

Stop it.

 

[Alceste]

i asked a question and where did i say a liar to someone,but to be skeptic is completely a different thing.

i am leaving this thread because it becomes tedious for me.

Peace

I'm going to reply to you anyway.

I think I understand where you are coming from, and you are not too far of the mark. If I had a one-off vision of God, I would not automatically assume that my vision was real and true. I would consider whether I might be feverish, under the influence of some substance that alters perception, sleep deprived, or possibly mentally ill. I would first assume that the vision was a figment of my imagination. You have to acknowledge that is actually the most plausible explanation for such a vision. People hallucinate for all kinds of reasons, and see all kinds of things that are not real.

However, that automatic recourse to the most plausible explanation should not be difficult for an omnipotent God to overcome. He could appear regularly, for example, across a wider range of circumstances, and make an empirically measurable, inexplicable impact on my surroundings. Like turning my apple trees into pear trees, or making my husband's hair grow back. He could appear to a large number of witnesses, including myself.

Alternatively, of course, he could just fill me with faith in his existence, and do away with any need for such theatrics once and for all. I have observed that people who have faith in a deity are completely unconcerned that there is no evidence of any such entity actually existing. Since no God has chosen to take this choice, I can only assume that either no omnipotent gods exist, or that those that exist don't really care whether I believe in them.

 

[FearGod]

I'm going to reply to you anyway.

I think I understand where you are coming from, and you are not too far of the mark. If I had a one-off vision of God, I would not automatically assume that my vision was real and true. I would consider whether I might be feverish, under the influence of some substance that alters perception, sleep deprived, or possibly mentally ill. I would first assume that the vision was a figment of my imagination. You have to acknowledge that is actually the most plausible explanation for such a vision. People hallucinate for all kinds of reasons, and see all kinds of things that are not real.

However, that automatic recourse to the most plausible explanation should not be difficult for an omnipotent God to overcome. He could appear regularly, for example, across a wider range of circumstances, and make an empirically measurable, inexplicable impact on my surroundings. Like turning my apple trees into pear trees, or making my husband's hair grow back. He could appear to a large number of witnesses, including myself.

Alternatively, of course, he could just fill me with faith in his existence, and do away with any need for such theatrics once and for all. I have observed that people who have faith in a deity are completely unconcerned that there is no evidence of any such entity actually existing. Since no God has chosen to take this choice, I can only assume that either no omnipotent gods exist, or that those that exist don't really care whether I believe in them.

i do appreciate your reply and thank you for being kind.

but excuse me that i had decided to withdraw from this thread and i won't have the pleasure to chat with you,sorry

 

[otokage007]

Even if he showed you himself,you'll still be skeptic.
Let me show you how you'll think.

if he came to talk to you and he said to you 9Westy9 follow islam,Mohammed was my messenger and you should follow him,then he disappeared.

What you'll think,will you follow islam ? or you'll still think and think and think.

To be honest, I would go to the psychiatrist.

 

[9Westy9]

Even if he showed you himself,you'll still be skeptic.
Let me show you how you'll think.

if he came to talk to you and he said to you 9Westy9 follow islam,Mohammed was my messenger and you should follow him,then he disappeared.

What you'll think,will you follow islam ? or you'll still think and think and think.

I'd probably follow Islam

 

[FearGod]

I'd probably follow Islam

Thank you for your kind reply,you know i have decided to withdraw,but i just want to show you how we can be skeptical,not only you but anyone of us.

if god showed me himself and talked to me that Islam is right,then as you said that normaly we''ll start to study Islam.

But if i knew later that in Islam god can never appear to anyone on earth even to his messengers,then of course again i'll be skeptical that what i saw was just a ghost and i'll forget about his existance.

i am showing you just an example which face everyone of us and not only you or me or him,all of us are skeptical and that is IMHO why it is called Islam,which means we have to submit to such facts with faith and not to be skeptical.

Thanks & peace

 

[dynavert2012]

I'd probably follow Islam

i know another agnostic told me before even if he sees the god he will say it's dream, magic or a trick

 

[Storm]

i know another agnostic told me before even if he sees the god he will say it's dream, magic or a trick

Some would, others would not.

The motives and reasoning of each camp vary by individual.

 

[9Westy9]

i know another agnostic told me before even if he sees the god he will say it's dream, magic or a trick

We're assuming that God himself has come and told me that Islam is correct. So unless he tries to disguise himself then it's very unlikely that I'll be ignoring him.

edit: Also there are ways to determine if the person speaking is God if need be

 

[otokage007]

edit: Also there are ways to determine if the person speaking is God if need be

Just curious. Ie?

 

[9Westy9]

Just curious. Ie?

you could ask him to switch off gravity for a while. You could ask him about your past or what you're thinking. Sure none of these will make you certain (if we're going with beyond a shadow of a doubt as certain) that the person is god, but it'll be close enough

 

[otokage007]

you could ask him to switch off gravity for a while. You could ask him about your past or what you're thinking. Sure none of these will make you certain (if we're going with beyond a shadow of a doubt as certain) that the person is god, but it'll be close enough

Well, that one completely convinced me actually hahahah

 

[9Westy9]

Well, that one completely convinced me actually hahahah

. I thought this through before and thought that it's one of the easiest and most convincing ways

 

[Photonic]

. I thought this through before and thought that it's one of the easiest and most convincing ways

I don't think I would be convinced by that.

Miracles are indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology.

-Arthur C. Clarke Clarks Three Laws