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Europe aids an ocean of refugees, where's Islam's charity?

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
The strange thing about Muslim countries is that the rich is secular. More you get poorer more you are conservative.
I disagree

there are extremists (Osama) come from rich (eg: Bin laden family).

Not all time , whom paying (supporting by money and guns) the terrorists in Syria and Iraq were/are the rich of Kings of oil (Qatar,SA,UAE,Kuwiet..etc) .

Actualty they are the responsible for this refugee wave, whom our rich countries and people !!!

Moroco and Tunisia (and many countries ) are poor, so they are bit secular

conclusion :
the conservative families are found in both sides (rich or poor ) .
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
And that would mean that about 1,100,000,000 don't.

Hehe recently in a refugee camp in Germany a Christian refugee supposedly ripped pages out of a Koran and flushed them down the toilet. (it probably never happenend, just like it never happens in Muslim countries)
What ensued was the hilarious stuff you usually only see in Muslim countries. It went on until riot police arrived. By then the enraged Muslim refugees had trashed the shelter they live in.
:D

Since then there have been more and more reports that Non-Muslim refugees are actually too afraid to call the police when they are harassed or something worse happens because they fear it might give them problems with the state.


Its only going to get worse. :)
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
I disagree

there are extremists (Osama) come from rich (eg: Bin laden family).

Not all time , whom paying (supporting by money and guns) the terrorists in Syria and Iraq were/are the rich of Kings of oil (Qatar,SA,UAE,Kuwiet..etc) .

Actualty they are the responsible for this refugee wave, whom our rich countries and people !!!

Moroco and Tunisia (and many countries ) are poor, so they are bit secular

conclusion :
the conservative families are found in both sides (rich or poor ) .

OMG, that... makes lot of sense!
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
A. 500 million people who disagree with basic human rights is far, far too many, wouldn't you say?
It is, but that is besides the point. Those 500 million, it's likely they would still disagree even if they had a different religion, or no religion. For a number of various reasons, they'd probably still be that way even with a different ideology. America is very guilty of using monetary prophet as a means of justifying violations of human rights. Soviet Russia was atheist. Even ones like Pol Pot - who had more of Syncretic Eastern world view rather than Western Abrahamic - disagreed with basic human rights.
Rather than pointing the finger at the ideology, we need to look those people themselves. Blaming religion is really no different than blaming heavy metal (and it's very true, for both theists and metalheads, that outsiders just do not get it or understand, and they are frequently wrong).
 

MD

qualiaphile
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/...ligion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
Muslims also tend to believe sharia has only one, true understanding, but this opinion is far from universal; in some countries, substantial minorities of Muslims believe sharia should be open to multiple interpretations.
Although many Muslims around the world say sharia should be the law of the land in their country [my addition: many Christians throughout the world believe this in regards to their rules], the survey reveals divergent opinions about the precise application of Islamic law.14 Generally, supporters of sharia are most comfortable with its application in cases of family or property disputes. In most regions, fewer favor other specific aspects of sharia, such as cutting off the hands of thieves and executing people who convert from Islam to another faith.
...
In 17 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, at least half of Muslims say sharia is the revealed word of God.
Muslims in Southeast Asia and Central Asia are somewhat less likely to say sharia comes directly from God.
...
Muslims differ widely as to whether sharia should be open to multiple understandings. While many say there is only one true interpretation, substantial percentages in most countries either say there are multiple interpretations or say they do not know.
In a number of countries, significant percentages say they are unsure whether sharia should be subject to one or multiple understandings,
...
Support for making sharia the official law of the land varies significantly across the six major regions included in the study.
...
Among Muslims who support making sharia the law of the land, most do not believe that it should be applied to non-Muslims.
...
Compared with attitudes toward applying sharia in the domestic or criminal spheres, Muslims in the countries surveyed are significantly less supportive of the death penalty for converts.
And here are some of the charts:
gsi2-chp1-1.png

gsi2-chp1-2.png

gsi2-chp1-3.png

gsi2-chp1-5.png

So, as you can see, although Sharia is believed in, it's exact belief and interpretation widely varies.

I have spent most of my life around Muslims, most have a moderate interpretation of the Sharia but compared to Western standards is very conservative and match Christian fundamentalist opinion in the U.S.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf and Mazdaian,

An idea put forth by Daniel Dennett (and I'm sure others), is that religious fundamentalists - in general, across religions - take a dim view of teaching their children - honestly - about other religions. In other words, fundamentalism relies strongly on indoctrination. We have to break this cycle of indoctrination.

The ideology is used as a vehicle to maintain these bad ideas across generations.

Shadow - Agreed that the US often violates human rights - we need to fight against those practices. But that doesn't let Muslim violators off the hook.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
An idea put forth by Daniel Dennett (and I'm sure others), is that religious fundamentalists - in general, across religions - take a dim view of teaching their children - honestly - about other religions. In other words, fundamentalism relies strongly on indoctrination. We have to break this cycle of indoctrination.
And we see this same thing with other groups occurring for other reasons, such as the period when Japan almost entirely sealed its borders and placed severe restrictions on the amount of Western influence coming in and spreading. Race and ethnic identity is another issue where people are heavily indoctrinated, and have the same dim views on teaching children. And then there are also the pure capitalist, libertarian, and social-Darwin ideologies that hold that only those who can afford an education should be educated, and of course the massive pollution, severe environmental degradation, and widespread health threats that we have that came into existence over the pursuit of profits. Mao used the idea of the proletariat against the bourgeoisie to further and enforce his ideas.
Anything taken to the extreme is dangerous, and there is nothing that prevents someone from taking any ideology they want and warping it into an extreme interpretation. We don't have a fundamentalist problem, but a fundamental problem with humans.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Hi sunrise,

Who is the "we" that you refer to? I might wish to have some influence concerning the US's immigration policies, but I don't, so all I can do is voice my opinion. (As it turns out, I do agree that we should take in more refugees.)

But yours is a "two wrongs makes it right" sort of argument isn't it? What if I said, "The US should take in more of these refugees, but the OPEC countries should take in some as well." ? The OPEC countries' responsibilities are the same, regardless of what the US does.
Actually it was a "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones" argument.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Hehe recently in a refugee camp in Germany a Christian refugee supposedly ripped pages out of a Koran and flushed them down the toilet. (it probably never happenend, just like it never happens in Muslim countries)
What ensued was the hilarious stuff you usually only see in Muslim countries. It went on until riot police arrived. By then the enraged Muslim refugees had trashed the shelter they live in.
:D

Since then there have been more and more reports that Non-Muslim refugees are actually too afraid to call the police when they are harassed or something worse happens because they fear it might give them problems with the state.


Its only going to get worse. :)
There are Buddhist fanatics murdering Muslims and a growing number of Jewish fanatics murdering Muslims. The Israeli government is doing a much better job for the extreme Jewish fanatics but there are many settlers illegally stealing Muslim land with a wink and a nod from the Israeli government.

We have a world-wide problem with fanaticism today with many more Muslims being fanatics but no religion being exempt.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf and Mazdaian,

An idea put forth by Daniel Dennett (and I'm sure others), is that religious fundamentalists - in general, across religions - take a dim view of teaching their children - honestly - about other religions. In other words, fundamentalism relies strongly on indoctrination. We have to break this cycle of indoctrination.

The ideology is used as a vehicle to maintain these bad ideas across generations.

Shadow - Agreed that the US often violates human rights - we need to fight against those practices. But that doesn't let Muslim violators off the hook.
We agree on the problem of fanaticism. And no one should be let off the hook.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
We agree on the problem of fanaticism. And no one should be let off the hook.

Hey, common ground!

I wonder whether it's more a problem with fundamentalism than fanaticism. How would you define "fanaticism"?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Hey, common ground!

I wonder whether it's more a problem with fundamentalism than fanaticism. How would you define "fanaticism"?
"Fundamentalist" applies to Christian denominations but in general these people want to live the "old time religion" or what they imagine it to be. I have no problem, in general, with the Amish who live the way they feel is right but don't try to impose it on others. In this context, fanatics want everyone to live that way and often will kill those who disagree.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
Quagmire said:

No, only 500 million or so. ;)

Where are you getting that figure from?

And even if there actually are that many people living under Sharia Law, how many of them do you suppose would choose something else if they had a choice.

I would guess almost all of the female half (or whatever) for starters.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Where are you getting that figure from?

Shadow Wolf's charts from earlier in this thread are one source...

And even if there actually are that many people living under Sharia Law, how many of them do you suppose would choose something else if they had a choice.

I would guess almost all of the female half (or whatever) for starters.

And don't you think that the idea that they might not have a choice, would be good reason to criticize the ideology?
 
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MARCELLO

Transitioning from male to female
Not sure exactly what point you're making here? But to be clear, dislike of an idea is not xenophobia, it's dislike of an idea.
Of course dislike of an idea isn't xenophobia. But dear icehorse,here we are talking about lives that do matter. You know what,I cannot even bear someone who takes the wrong knife in a dinner table,but I cannot let simply these uneducated ones to be killed. That's why I say xenophobia kills and it does kill .
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
Of course dislike of an idea isn't xenophobia. But dear icehorse,here we are talking about lives that do matter. You know what,I cannot even bear someone who takes the wrong knife in a dinner table,but I cannot let simply these uneducated ones to be killed. That's why I say xenophobia kills and it does kill .

Lives DO matter! I've said it before, I'll say it again: I think the United Nations Declaration on Human Rights (UNDHR), is a fantastic baseline for how humans ought to treat one another. And we ought to be suspicious and vocal about anyone who acts to undermine these basic humane ideas. Any dispute with that?
 
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