Eve more guilty than Adam

[McBell]

No. He knew the consequences because he warned them of it. He however didn't have foreknowledge as to their actions prior to their creation. He also had no foreknowledge of the rebellious angel known as Satans actions.

What does The Satan have to do with the Adam and Eve Story?

 

[McBell]

No. He knew the consequences because he warned them of it. He however didn't have foreknowledge as to their actions prior to their creation. He also had no foreknowledge of the rebellious angel known as Satans actions.

Prior to their creation?
What the hell are you going on about?
He did not need to have the knowledge prior to their creation.

though it seems your argument is that God wqas to stupid to see the outcome before the actions took place.
Even though he did create them, the garden, the tree, and the whole situation.

 

[Acim]

What if the hare hadn't stopped to take a nap in the middle of the race?

Somehow we'd blame the Serpent for that (too).

 

[Acim]

I blame god because he put the tree in the garden in the first place. You don't want someone to eat from it then don't put it there.

I don't think LORD God put the trees there, and that the passage is all about forbidding his creation (separated self) from becoming like his Creator.

Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed. The LORD God made all kinds of trees grow out of the ground—trees that were pleasing to the eye and good for food. In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Again LORD God is nowhere to be found (I don't think) in Gen. 1.

 

[Pegg]

human psychology rarely remits to only facts. this people were born this very same day, don´t ask them to be this rational

i dont believe that Adam was created on the same day he sinned....unless you are using Gods perspective of time in which case, yes....one day with God is 1,000 years.


However, in earth time, Adam lived for some length before eve was created. Thats why he was lonely and God said he needed a mate:

Genesis 2:15 And Jehovah God proceeded to take the man and settle him in the garden of E′den to cultivate it and to take care of it....
18 And Jehovah God went on to say: “It is not good for the man to continue by himself. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.” 19 Now Jehovah God was forming from the ground every wild beast of the field and every flying creature of the heavens, and he began bringing them to the man to see what he would call each one; and whatever the man would call it, each living soul, that was its name. 20 So the man was calling the names of all the domestic animals and of the flying creatures of the heavens and of every wild beast of the field, but for man there was found no helper as a complement of him.

How long did Adam take to name all the animals who God brought to him? We dont know, but we can be fairly sure it was more then 1 day.

 

[Pegg]

It's God's fault for not understanding women.

God: Adam, don't eat that fruit.
Adam: Oky Doky.

God: Eve, eat that fruit.
Eve: Why?
God: Because I'm telling you to.
Eve: No.
God: No?
Eve: I'm not eating that fruit just because you're telling me to! Who do you think you are?
God: I am your God, now eat that fruit!
Eve: No chance! No matter how many times you tell me to I am never going to eat that fruit!

See? If I was God I'd have avoided original sin pretty easily

LOL

that was pretty funny

Reverse psychology does work pretty well a lot of the time

 

[look3467]

Let's get down to the chase. Everybody is beating around the bush but nothing of any validity is coming out of any .

We have a God who is the creator of a vessel of clay of which He breaths life into it to become a living soul.

This living soul can be either male or female as far as the spirit breath is concerned but not the physical vessel.

For in spirit life both male and female have it, but in the physical, we are different.

Ref:Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

The next verse is the marriage between the spirit of God and the clay vessel: Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Once created as a living soul is akin to like a new born babe.

A new born is innocent, free of any sin and has yet to eat of the fruit of knowledge.

The next verse gives us our abilities: Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

" Let us make man in our image" entails abilities of which the rest of the verse gives the authority as gods: to have dominion, meaning judge over.

But you see, prior to the babe having eaten of the fruit of knowledge, innocence was the time in the garden, abiding in the presence of God.

Children: of such is the kingdom of heaven: Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

So at what point then does sin come into the picture?

When is the babe kicked out of the garden/paradise/heaven?

The time when knowledge eaten/digested and judgment exercised is when the babe has grown to the age of accountability and the eyes opened.
Ref:Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

OK! So our eyes are opened (Male and female) and we become our own masters.

Is that what God wanted? Absolutely! But it came with a cost.

The cost was that in order to gives us god status and abilities, and the becoming of our own masters, there came a separation between our own self and God.

So as a result the phrase goes: Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon

There you see the reason for the cost?

Which of the two are you? Do you love God more than yourself? Or do you love the world more than God? (Ye cannot serve God and mammon)

OK so it's God's fault for creating us gods right? Well, Guess what? It was God who fixed the problem!

How? He prepared a like body, as like ours (Flesh and blood) and His Spirit abode in that body as God and not a god, lower case g.

Ref: Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh (God)into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Ref:Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

That body (The Ram in the thicketh) Ref: Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Issac, Abraham's son represents all of us, who were the object of the sacrifice by reason of becoming gods, were spared death by yet another body prepared especially for the sacrifice. (The ram)

So you see the simple picture? Neither Adam or Eve are guilty of sin, until both eat of knowledge that opens our eyes to the reality of this world and are cursed to make judgments concerning it to our credit or demise.

Credit if we seek the creator and become one with Him, and demise if we don't and make this world as all there is.

As gods, you have that right to make the choice. And God gave you that ability now, without penalty of death, as was prior to God's offering.(The Ram = Jesus Christ)

Hope this causes some to rethink their views by questioning them, regardless of what you already believe.

For God so loved the world that He gave His Son (Ram) for it, without conditions, without reservations and in total with nothing being left out.

Praise God!

Blessings, AJ

 

[Awoon]

Adam and Eve story is poetry

 

[Desert Snake]

The way I understand it, Adam was more guilty; specifically, it was he who had been told not to eat of the forbidden fruit.

Eve was beguiled by the serpent (a creature that shuns humans) - that way Satan thought that Eve could be fooled, because she would be unaware that snakes do not speak. When Eve gave Adam the apple, he was the one who knew full well that he should not eat of the tree - in that scenario, he was the one who "crossed" God..........
(From a "sola scriptura" POV..................

Scripturally, at least according to the KJV and NIV, this position doesn't make sense. The only reason one could give for this opinion is that sin varies based on temptation....not sure religious people want to go there, though. That being said, I get your point.

 

[Ninez]

Prior to their creation?


though it seems your argument is that God wqas to stupid to see the outcome before the actions took place.

Not stupid, but he didn't know.

 

[freethinker44]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

I don't think either of them are guilty. Seeing as how they only gained knowledge of good and evil AFTER they ate from the tree, they had no way of knowing what they were doing was wrong. If anyone is deserving of blame for the whole situation, I think it should be God who takes the responsibility.

 

[Ninez]

I don't think either of them are guilty. Seeing as how they only gained knowledge of good and evil AFTER they ate from the tree, they had no way of knowing what they were doing was wrong. If anyone is deserving of blame for the whole situation, I think it should be God who takes the responsibility.

This is the sad reality of humans. It's not until AFTER the repercussions of an action we feel remorse despite clear warning signs.

 

[freethinker44]

This is the sad reality of humans. It's not until AFTER the repercussions of an action we feel remorse despite clear warning signs.

True, but this case is different. They were literally incapable of knowing their actions were wrong beforehand. No amount of foresight could have helped them. Even a direct warning about the consequences of eating the fruit would have been pointless because they could only gain the ability to understand the warning after the deed was done.

 

[Katzpur]

i would have expected Eve to remain in heaven though if she was unaware of what she was doing, isn't it unfair to take her out of heaven to experience this reality?

First of all, I don't believe the Garden of Eden was the same place as what I would call "Heaven," but I'm not sure that's all that important of an issue. I just thought I'd mention it. Mormons believe that it was only when Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden that they became mortal (in the sense of being able to die and being able to procreate). So we don't believe the human race would have ever even come into existance as long as Adam and Eve were in Eden. We also believe that when God cast them out of the Garden and sent them off into the world, He was really doing them an enormous favor. They would never have been able to grow or progress had they not been able to know both good and evil. The Garden of Eden would have been a beautiful place, but it couldn't begin to have compared with what God ultimately had in mind for them.

yes, multiply. that's another issue. i am trying to understand how you'd explain justice according to this point of view. why aware and unaware ones get the same result?

I'm not sure I understand your question, .lava. Could you maybe rephrase it?

 

[Katzpur]

I agree, but what I find confusing is that Eve (womanhood) was then punished by having painful childbirth - I can't see where or why that comes in..............

I don't know, but it sure sucks! Seriously, I don't particularly understand that part myself, either.

 

[Katzpur]

I blame god because he put the tree in the garden in the first place.

I give credit to God because He put the tree in the Garden in the first place.

 

[Ninez]

True, but this case is different. They were literally incapable of knowing their actions were wrong beforehand. No amount of foresight could have helped them. Even a direct warning about the consequences of eating the fruit would have been pointless because they could only gain the ability to understand the warning after the deed was done.

Considering it was a command coming from their creator and a contradiction coming from some stranger says quite a lot IMO. We don't know the exact amount of time that went by before they sinned, but it's safe to say they established a relationship with God. They had no dealings with the snake other than it telling them God was a liar and they out of their own free will chose to believe it. It's not the fact they didn't need any foresight. They didn't want any. Before they sinned, God was the dictator of what was right and wrong and by sinning, they decided they wanted take that right from God and be their own gods. Afterwards yhey didn't even attempt to repent. Instead, Adam tried to blame God as many people do today. That in itself tells me it was a conscience intention act of disobedience.

 

[tarekabdo12]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

According to Islam, both disobeyed God's order and none of them is away from this fault. Islam didn't show that there was a snake or that Eve told Adam that They should eat the apple from the true and these strange enigmas. The Satan told them that they would live forever if they ate from it and would be like Angels.

 

[tarekabdo12]

I give credit to God because He put the tree in the Garden in the first place.

This was an experience that God was giving it to Adam and Eve before they went to the earth for the job they were designed for(to choose between good and bad and to build the earth). They had to know that if they listen to the Satan and follow his way and disobey God's orders they'd lose a lot.

 

[Ninez]

This was an experience that God was giving it to Adam and Eve before they went to the earth for the job they were designed for(to choose between good and bad and to build the earth). They had to know that if they listen to the Satan and follow his way and disobey God's orders they'd lose a lot.

Wait what? If they weren't on earth before they got the commandment, where were they? I mean he didn't take dirt from Heaven and formed Adam so where else could he have gotten it?