Eve more guilty than Adam

[Pegg]

Look more closely:

“The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.”

He blamed God very clearly. It´s like someone trips over the cake you just did and ruins it and you tell him:

"you ruined my cake!"

and he tells you:

"I tripped on the merengue you spilt on the floor, so that is why I ruined your cake"

Now it would be different to say:

"sorry, I slipped on the merengue, can I help you make a new one?"

picky picky


Well did you notice that Adam also said "she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.”

So i guess he was really a big girly man who didnt want to take responsibility for his own actions ...what a whoos!!

 

[Me Myself]

picky picky


Well did you notice that Adam also said "she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.”

So i guess he was really a big girly man who didnt want to take responsibility for his own actions ...what a whoos!!

Now now don´t be so hard on him. I think he was born that very same day

But yeah, it´s just I am not sure he saw the woman as his equal yet, so the phrasing of the sentence is like if she was an object. SO really childish overall xD

 

[Pegg]

Now now don´t be so hard on him. I think he was born that very same day

But yeah, it´s just I am not sure he saw the woman as his equal yet, so the phrasing of the sentence is like if she was an object. SO really childish overall xD

im sure from that point on he viewed Eve as his 'thorn in the flesh'

she got him into a load of trouble, he lost his home, he had to work hard in the sweat of his face to make ends meet... can you imagine the bed time conversations they had

 

[Me Myself]

im sure from that point on he viewed Eve as his 'thorn in the flesh'

she got him into a load of trouble, he lost his home, he had to work hard in the sweat of his face to make ends meet... can you imagine the bed time conversations they had

Lol! :biglaugh: this most be exactly why the society became patriarchal so fast

 

[Desert Snake]

1st Timothy 2v14 says Adam was not deceived, but Eve was and came to be in transgression.

Good reference, thanx.

 

[Ninez]

If anyone is to be blamed, then I would say God would be at the top of the list. If he truly didn't want to sin or disobey, then it was pretty stupid of him of putting that Tree in the Garden.

But if it was a test, then God had manipulated them into "disobeying" him.

You seem to think he knew it was going to happen. Going by that logic, instead of putting a tree, why make humans in the first place?

 

[Me Myself]

You seem to think he knew it was going to happen. Going by that logic, instead of putting a tree, why make humans in the first place?

somebody has to worship him so he can feel special

 

[McBell]

im sure from that point on he viewed Eve as his 'thorn in the flesh'

she got him into a load of trouble, he lost his home, he had to work hard in the sweat of his face to make ends meet... can you imagine the bed time conversations they had

She did no such thing.
Adam freely chose to eat the forbidden fruit.
She did not "force" or "coerce" him in any way.

 

[McBell]

You seem to think he knew it was going to happen. Going by that logic, instead of putting a tree, why make humans in the first place?

So your argument is that your all knowing deity was ignorant of the consequences of not only putting the tree in the garden but then specifically drawing attention to it?

Wow.

Even my ten year old can predict the outcome of that situation.

 

[McBell]

Gen 3:12 And the man went on to say: “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me [fruit] from the tree and so I ate.” 13 With that Jehovah God said to the woman: “What is this you have done?” To this the woman replied: “The serpent—it deceived me and so I ate.”

Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent

Why are you so sure that this is describing some sort of "blame game"?
Could it be that they were merely stating the facts?

 

[Me Myself]

Why are you so sure that this is describing some sort of "blame game"?
Could it be that they were merely stating the facts?

human psychology rarely remits to only facts. this people were born this very same day, don´t ask them to be this rational

 

[Ninez]

So your argument is that your all knowing deity was ignorant of the consequences of not only putting the tree in the garden but then specifically drawing attention to it?

Wow.

Even my ten year old can predict the outcome of that situation.

No. He knew the consequences because he warned them of it. He however didn't have foreknowledge as to their actions prior to their creation. He also had no foreknowledge of the rebellious angel known as Satans actions.

 

[Acim]

You seem to think he knew it was going to happen. Going by that logic, instead of putting a tree, why make humans in the first place?

He makes Eve from Adam, so Adam will not be alone.

To perpetuate suffering / separation from Creator God in Gen. 1. This is a god that is all about driving a wedge between 'all that is good' in Creation and all that he has made to deceive mainly himself, and his creation (Adam) from sharing Knowledge with (actual) God.

 

[Duck]

1. I disagree. It was done for them to express their appreciation and their love.

2. Copied from Wikipedia on the definition of entrapment:

Entrapment holds if all three conditions are fulfilled:

1. The idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.
2. Government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving someone the opportunity to commit a crime is not the same as persuading them to commit that crime.
3. The person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before interaction with the government agents.

My thoughts:

1. They were fine before the serpent said anything, so the idea actually came from snake.

2.They weren't persuaded by God, but rather the snake.

3. Again no one knows the exact amount of time after he forbade them to eat from it they disobeyed, but I maintain it wasn't until the serpent said anything they were even remotely interested in it.

Since an argument could be made that a major premise of many major world religions is the conflict between good/evil (in whatever format you want to make this, spiritual/worldly, man's capacity for kindness/man's capacity for cruelty, light side/dark side, etc.) and that since another major premise of many world religions (and certainly christianity) is that there are two opposed entities managing/manipulating/playing in this conflict acting to influence man's actions, I would say that an argument could be made that the snake (e.g. Satan, the "dark side" player) was acting as a 'government' agent in this case. And that the actions of that entity satisfied all three of the criteria you list from the entrapment wiki above (e.g. the snake acted as a government agent, persuaded Eve at least to eat the forbidden fruit, and that Eve wasn't inclined to do so prior to the snake's intervention).

As to the OP, no Eve was not more guilty than Adam. The restriction on eating from the tree was made to Adam, not to Eve. (Eve hadn't been created when Adam was given that restriction, presumably for the dialogue at the beginning of Genesis 3 to be carried out Adam or perhaps God relayed the restriction to her, but this is not specifically mentioned in the texts I have read).

ETA: and truthfully, I think the whole deal was a set up. Adam and Eve were placed in a situation, innocent of knowledge of good and evil, and then punished for violating the restrictions set upon them. Once they gained knowledge of good and evil, they became like God, and were thrown out to prevent them from becoming immortal (and presumably even more God-like).

 

[Duck]

I don't understand how you can make a correlation between the two. Satan had a motive because he was jealous of the worship God was recieving. What exactly did God have to gain? Oh top of that, why go through all the trouble of getting his first born son Jesus to die to redeem/free mankind from the result of what the first human pair did?

That makes ZERO sense.

Weren't you the guy that was just saying God wasn't Omniscient? So, he wouldn't have known about "the trouble of getting his first born son Jesus to die to redeem/free mankind from the result of what the first human pair did?" for several thousand years at that point. I am not sure what God would have gained from the experience, but what would Satan have gained, exactly? Unless his goal was to get the snake cursed to have no legs...

 

[Erebus]

It's God's fault for not understanding women.

God: Adam, don't eat that fruit.
Adam: Oky Doky.

God: Eve, eat that fruit.
Eve: Why?
God: Because I'm telling you to.
Eve: No.
God: No?
Eve: I'm not eating that fruit just because you're telling me to! Who do you think you are?
God: I am your God, now eat that fruit!
Eve: No chance! No matter how many times you tell me to I am never going to eat that fruit!

See? If I was God I'd have avoided original sin pretty easily

 

[Acim]

Could've been a really boring story if Eve says to Serpent, "ya know, I think I'll pass. But thanks for the bit of wisdom."

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What if the hare hadn't stopped to take a nap in the middle of the race?

 

[michel]

Yes, my reason is that the OP asked, "Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin?" Since the assumption is that Eve sinned, I think it's not unreasonable to want to know where the Bible tells us she sinned. I don't believe Eve actually "sinned" because I believe that sin is the intentional choice to violate a religious law or moral principle. I believe that it's impossible to sin without a knowledge of good and evil, or right and wrong. Adam and Eve both disobeyed God, but I don't believe that it's accurate to describe their disobedience as "sinful." Once they ate the forbidden fruit and came to understand the difference between good and evil, then any further wrongdoings would, in my opinion, be considered sinful.

Yes, she did something "wrong," and she knew before she ever did so that there would be consequences for her disobedience. But I believe that the Fall was a necessary part of God's plan. Members of my Church actually hold both Adam and Eve in pretty high esteem.

I agree, but what I find confusing is that Eve (womanhood) was then punished by having painful childbirth - I can't see where or why that comes in..............

 

[idav]

Do you think Eve is more guilty than Adam, considering that she was the one to initially sin? It seems to me that this would inherently be the case.

I blame god because he put the tree in the garden in the first place. You don't want someone to eat from it then don't put it there. Also Eve can't be to blame cause she wasn't even created when the rule came out about the tree. Then to have a serpent tempt her into something she might not have even considered in the first place seems like a setup from the start. Then of course Adam is even less to blame. Was Adam supposed to say no to a woman?