WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Much like saying "it is the will of God", reason being because everything done is God's will. So they can then do whatever they will.
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Even one disbeliever on the earth is too much.
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Much like saying "it is the will of God", reason being because everything done is God's will. So they can then do whatever they will.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
The speech is weaving words into twelve positions. Every word has its place along with other words of the same group. It reminds me of a Zodiac wheel but in a language form, as they are stacking layers of symbols and weaving symbols through the layers according to their positions within the wheel. Each position has many different symbols assigned to it.
I dont know if the sign language of the messengers has anything to do with star constellations. It might not be, if ancient people misinterpreted "the map of the heavens" and played connect the dots drawing pictures in the stars.
I can show examples of stacking layers and weaving the symbols into positions, to show how the speech works. Like in Ezekiel there is a city description with twelve gates having a tribe assigned to each gate.
Now consider Isaiah speaks of the wolf with the lamb, the leopard with the kid goat, and the lion with the calf.
According to the twelve position format of the city description Joseph is with Benjamin in the East.
So Isaiah is correct. The wolf is with the lamb, because Benjamin is with Joseph.
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis.
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. Psalm
So Benjamin (Wolf) is with Joseph (Sheep) on the East side. The wolf is with the lamb.
As Gad (leopard) is with Asher (Goat) on the West side. The leopard is with the kid goat.
As Judah (lion) is with Reuben (cattle) on the North side. The lion is with the calf.
North - West - East
Cattle - Goat - Sheep
Lion - Leopard - Wolf
Isaiah is speaking animals into a twelve position format.
The Bible talks about eating bread, and drinking wine, and the Bible also talks about eating human flesh, and drinking their blood:
Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. Ezekiel.
But in our ways are judgements. As the bread is the flesh and the wine is the blood.
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
Jesus understood this.
I can also further explain how bread, oil, and wine are within the twelve position format. There is a reason Ephraim is associated with wine being in the gate of Joseph in the East side, while Asher is associated with oil and is on the West gate side.
North - West - East
Bread - Oil - Wine
Flesh - Bone - Blood
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Have you thought about Christianity as being another warrior religion?
This also can not be denied.
Jesus says: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword".
The importance of this verse cannot be overstated either.
Can you think of Christians fighting against other religions in the name of their messenger Jesus.
The Christians that are fighting to establish a Christian world.
Do you think there a difference between a Christian warrior and a Muslim warrior?
Do you know what? I think that even one "believer" in 'Do not leave on the land any inhabitant from among the faithless' is at very minimum one believer too many!
Do you understand what that verse says? It says you must KILL (that is, make dead, leave unliving, exterminate, annihilate) anyone who doesn't think just like you do.
Like it or not, that is an EVIL sentiment -- at the very least!
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
No. Not even close.
Words and deeds ascribed to the mythical character named Jesus urge peace and tolerance (and please don't waste our time with "I bring not peace, but a sword". He never actually used a sword nor did he encourage anyone to do so. In fact, when he was being arrested he stopped his disciple from using his). And yes, we all know that Christians were violent, murderous ******** for much of the last 2000 years. But, that was on them and the OT. No atrocities that they committed can be tied to the teachings of Jesus.
Islam is a mere 180 degrees out of phase with that. Mohamed not only demands that Muslims kill, but he swung the sword himself. He had hundreds of Jews beheaded after they surrendered. There is NO comparison.
Ah, I see you did try. Read the above.
Covered this as well. The difference is that Jesus taught and practiced peace, whereas Mohamed taught and practiced hatred and war.
Again, there is NO comparison. Islam is the cancer of the earth, and it's matastasizing as we speak.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Why do you dismiss the verse, and try to defend Jesus? It clearly states no peace, sword. You cant change that.
And the New Testament also states all disbelievers in Jesus shall be destroyed from among the people.
"For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days". Acts.
Speaking of killing all disbelievers, those that can't hear Jesus.
Is there no comparison?
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Jesus teaches Christians to hate their family, and to hate themselves:
"If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".
Jesus is a teacher of hatred and war, not just a teacher of love and peace.
There is no concrete indication at this time that any Muslim country is even remotely capable of "[ruling] the world" or that it will be capable of doing so for at least the next few decades (if not longer), and both current and recently rising global powers—such as the US, China, India, and Russia—are all non-Muslim, if not largely hostile to Islam in some of their policies (e.g., the US' "War on Terror" and China's genocide of the Uyghurs).
I thoroughly oppose theocracy and believe that separation of religion and state law is fundamental to freedom and human rights, but I find the notion that Islam will "rule the world" anytime in the coming decades unfounded, if not outright alarmist.
There is no such condition in the Arabic language; this is only one interpretation of some Islamic texts. Many people will disagree with it.
The passage you quoted is about non-believers among Noah's people, not all non-believers after. There were non-Muslims who lived under the reign of Muhammad and later under the reign of his companions, which directly contradicts the notion that a Muslim ruler would be instructed by Islamic teachings to annihilate non-believers.
See above.
stevecanuck
Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about an Islamic invasion in the military sense. I'm talking about the furtherance and inevitable outcome of the massive demographic shift that is taking place.
Salam
Mohammad (s) and other Prophets (a) don't force people. It doesn't mean that we should not wish that the end result is no disbeliever. Nuh (a) prayer can be local, but his reasoning applies to all disbelievers. The reasoning of them misguiding others and not raising grateful children to God is true and applies to all disbelievers.
Maybe, but wanting the truth to prevail can't be evil. To say falsehood and truth should always co-exist, means, apathy towards truth.
That... is a pretty solid argument against the claim of the truth of Islam, I have to say.
How so?
In a nutshell, you are saying that either we atheists are liars or Islam is not the true religion.
Which, to be fair, is indeed how things stand. I realized well over a decade ago.
Kind of strange that a doctrine would empower its disbelievers to say authoritatively that it is false, but that is how it goes.
"Truth" in this context is belief about things unverifiable.
So this "truth" varies greatly from religion to religion,
& even from individual to individual within one.
Some of their "truths" are good IMO.
Others are evil IMO.
Yet all are pursued.
I've never heard that said.
My apathy towards such "truth" is due
to finding it to be mere unfounded belief,
unsupported opinion, & unverifiable myths.
It has no value to me.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
Are you a person of logic and reason? I could show you a possibility of where atheists went wrong in thought, and theists were unable to explain.
Like the possibility of the sun and moon standing still in fixed positions as an example.
As stated here:
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habbakuk.
You might try telling me about scientific evidence regarding the sun and the moon, please dont.
I have scientific evidence too.
To show you the truth of the words, I will show you two layer sets of three words.
Layer one:
"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". Corinthians
Layer two:
Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows.
So now you should be able to clearly see that these two layers of three words are being woven together:
Look at the verse again:
"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habbakuk.
The sun and moon are in positions along with bow/arrows and spear. Two words from each set of three words. You can also notice in the weaving of the two layers one word from each layer was left out. The sword, and the star.
The truth of the words is in their weaving of words into positions. They are in alignments.
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
So I understand the atheists scientific evidence of the workings of the sun and moon is irrelevant. And theists explanation that God can do anything doesn't help the situation.
Do you think what I am saying is logical or not?
I don't really understand how this relates to the situation that the Qur'an creates regarding itself and atheism.
WonderingWorrier
Active Member
The Quran states both guiding and leading astray, and it seems to sound like nonsense by design. Like consider the truth of Muhammad separating the moon. Foolish nonsense that others think anyone else could write.
The Quran speaks of it:
Then the Messenger will say: "O my Lord! Truly my people took this Quran for just foolish nonsense."
When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients."
"There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe".
Look in the foolish nonsense of the Quran:
It is speaking very clear truth.
"Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The Parable of His Light is as if there were a Niche and within it a Lamp: the Lamp enclosed in Glass: the glass as it were a brilliant star: Lit from a blessed Tree, an Olive, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil is well-nigh luminous, though fire scarce touched it: Light upon Light! Allah doth guide whom He will to His Light: Allah doth set forth Parables for men: and Allah doth know all things".
So I accept this sign from Muhammad of the star and the olive tree oil alignment.
Because I notice the speech is weaving putting its words in the right positions within the layers, having them in alignment. This is an alignment that I learned from listening to the nonsense of the Bible prophets, before taking a look at the Quran.
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Bread - Oil - Wine
Corn - Olive - Grape
Since Muhammad's speech is putting his words in the right places, he is speaking truth.
The nonsense speaks perfect sense when you listen to where the words are saying within itself.
Perhaps you could consider the truth of separating of the moon, as debating unheard words would be pointless. A different way to hear the words, is a different way to consider its truth. A person of logic and reason should know that.