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Even Republicans are beginning to notice Trump's dementia.

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
No, the economy is doing very very well. The stock market, the go to rating of the Republicans is the highest its ever been. Unemployment, record lows. In fact by all metrics, except for perhaps inflation the economy is doing better than ever.
The inflation rate has been steadily falling since it peaked in mid-2022:

1705855010748.png

I see no value in the "your candidate demonstrates more dementia than my candidate" food fight.
The conservatives on this thread do. They're unwilling to discuss Trump's mental decline and so have launched this whatabboutism/false equivalence campaign, and it's been effective. They've got people defending Biden on a thread about Trump's progressive mental collapse.
Both Biden and Trump belong in a retirement home
I'm surprised to see this from you. Biden belongs in the White House and Trump in prison, and when Biden retires, he'll return home, which is where he'll belong then.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with Biden's demographic. I am. I'm almost 70 myself and live in an expat retirement community, where my friends are all about 65-95. My regular bridge partner is 86, is still a world traveler, and does the books for his church. The average age of this crowd is probably mid-seventies, none of us are in retirement homes, and most of us lead active and productive lives.
Ok, can Biden sit for an hour long interview like Trump does routinely? You know Biden can't do that.
This is your criterion for mental competence? Of course Biden can sit for an hour being interviewed. I don't know that he has any incentive to do that. But when he is interviewed, he speaks intelligently and is decent. Trump is a dumpster fire in interviews, and worse at a podium or in a courtroom.

Did you or any other Trump defender here like to address the comments that Father Heathen quoted. These aren't gaffes. This isn't misspeaking, using the wrong word, or making a minor mistake:

“Think of it, magnets. Now all I know about magnets is this, give me a glass of water, let me drop it on the magnets, that’s the end of the magnets.” - Trump

"In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified Army out of the Revolutionary Forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington, commander in chief, Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rocket's red glare it had nothing but victory." - Trump

"I got it. I got it. Why don't we nuke them? They start forming off the coast of Africa, as they're moving across the Atlantic, we drop a bomb inside the eye of the hurricane and it disrupts it. Why can't we do that?" - Trump

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that." - Trump

That was then - just ignorance and stupidity. More recently, we're seeing the forgetfulness of dementia charging to the forefront. He thinks he ran against Obama. He's frequently confused, even about Barron Trump. He thinks Haley was Speaker on J6. He's now slurring words and rambling incoherently. His mood is volatile. He throws ketchup at walls and is rage "tweeting" more than ever. Judges have to shut him up. And he continues insulting his rape victim even as he has been successfully sued for that in the past and is on trial for the same now.

And he's in physical decline, now as well, requiring two hands to lift a glass of water and having difficulty going down ramps while Joe is out riding bicycles. And do you really want to know why Trump's hands are spotted red or why people say he smells like a dirty diaper? I don't.
There needs to come a time in distinguishing what is a gaff and what is actual mental decline.
Agreed. Trump is in freefall now. It's interested to see for how long his base can continue pretending that it isn't so. Dementia is insidious. It's difficult to detect early and generally proceeds imperceptibly until a tipping point is reached, and then it can advance rapidly.

I have a lot of experience treating end-stage dementia. Once they lose their executive function and insight, their baseline mood is revealed, which they had previously been able to conceal. We see three types of end-stage dementia. The happy one, the angry ones, and the fearful ones. The happy ones just babble and coo like babies. The fearful ones recoil, call out when people approach them, and tend to lie in a fetal position. Trump is angry and is having much more difficulty concealing it lately. Dementia won't make Trump angry. It will just reveal it as he has increasing difficulty concealing or controlling it. Just look at him in court. He can't help attacking the judges. How smart is that? Not very, but he has little impulse control left. You really don't want a man like that in power.
Whether it's the border, election integrity, or the economy, everything right now is absolutely abysmal and people are completly miserable
Probably mostly the ones listening to conservative agitprop. If you listened to regular news, you would know that the economy is booming and elections are secure, but you listen to people that benefit by keeping you resentful and fearful.
Well for the elites and the rich anyways. The rest of us, there is no booming economy.
The elites and rich? Most Americans benefit from that economy. Take a peak where I live in Mexico. This economy is stagnant, mean incomes are low, and people live and eat humbly (mostly rice, beans, tortillas, and a little meat, which are quite inexpensive). Dirt floors are still common. Cars are less common and older, and many depend on scooter, bicycles, or public transportation. Clothing is often used (much has printing in English on it, meaning it probably wasn't purchased new in Mexico). Heating and air conditioning are rare. Pets are less common. They don't eat in restaurants much (street vendors seem to be preferred when eating out).

The average American lives much better than that. You probably do.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The inflation rate has been steadily falling since it peaked in mid-2022:

View attachment 87236

The conservatives on this thread do. They're unwilling to discuss Trump's mental decline and so have launched this whatabboutism/false equivalence campaign, and it's been effective. They've got people defending Biden on a thread about Trump's progressive mental collapse.

I'm surprised to see this from you. Biden belongs in the White House and Trump in prison, and when Biden retires, he'll return home, which is where he'll belong then.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with Biden's demographic. I am. I'm almost 70 myself and live in an expat retirement community, where my friends are all about 65-95. My regular bridge partner is 86, is still a world traveler, and does the books for his church. The average age of this crowd is probably mid-seventies, none of us are in retirement homes, and most of us lead active and productive lives.

This is your criterion for mental competence? Of course Biden can sit for an hour being interviewed. I don't know that he has any incentive to do that. But when he is interviewed, he speaks intelligently and is decent. Trump is a dumpster fire in interviews, and worse at a podium or in a courtroom.

Did you or any other Trump defender here like to address the comments that Father Heathen quoted. These aren't gaffes. This isn't misspeaking, using the wrong word, or making a minor mistake:

“Think of it, magnets. Now all I know about magnets is this, give me a glass of water, let me drop it on the magnets, that’s the end of the magnets.” - Trump

"In June of 1775, the Continental Congress created a unified Army out of the Revolutionary Forces encamped around Boston and New York, and named after the great George Washington, commander in chief, Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over the airports, it did everything it had to do, and at Fort McHenry, under the rocket's red glare it had nothing but victory." - Trump

"I got it. I got it. Why don't we nuke them? They start forming off the coast of Africa, as they're moving across the Atlantic, we drop a bomb inside the eye of the hurricane and it disrupts it. Why can't we do that?" - Trump

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that." - Trump

That was then - just ignorance and stupidity. More recently, we're seeing the forgetfulness of dementia charging to the forefront. He thinks he ran against Obama. He's frequently confused, even about Barron Trump. He thinks Haley was Speaker on J6. He's now slurring words and rambling incoherently. His mood is volatile. He throws ketchup at walls and is rage "tweeting" more than ever. Judges have to shut him up. And he continues insulting his rape victim even as he has been successfully sued for that in the past and is on trial for the same now.

And he's in physical decline, now as well, requiring two hands to lift a glass of water and having difficulty going down ramps while Joe is out riding bicycles. And do you really want to know why Trump's hands are spotted red or why people say he smells like a dirty diaper? I don't.

Agreed. Trump is in freefall now. It's interested to see for how long his base can continue pretending that it isn't so. Dementia is insidious. It's difficult to detect early and generally proceeds imperceptibly until a tipping point is reached, and then it can advance rapidly.

I have a lot of experience treating end-stage dementia. Once they lose their executive function and insight, their baseline mood is revealed, which they had previously been able to conceal. We see three types of end-stage dementia. The happy one, the angry ones, and the fearful ones. The happy ones just babble and coo like babies. The fearful ones recoil, call out when people approach them, and tend to lie in a fetal position. Trump is angry and is having much more difficulty concealing it lately. Dementia won't make Trump angry. It will just reveal it as he has increasing difficulty concealing or controlling it. Just look at him in court. He can't help attacking the judges. How smart is that? Not very, but he has little impulse control left. You really don't want a man like that in power.

Probably mostly the ones listening to conservative agitprop. If you listened to regular news, you would know that the economy is booming and elections are secure, but you listen to people that benefit by keeping you resentful and fearful.

The elites and rich? Most Americans benefit from that economy. Take a peak where I live in Mexico. This economy is stagnant, mean incomes are low, and people live and eat humbly (mostly rice, beans, tortillas, and a little meat, which are quite inexpensive). Dirt floors are still common. Cars are less common and older, and many depend on scooter, bicycles, or public transportation. Clothing is often used (much has printing in English on it, meaning it probably wasn't purchased new in Mexico). Heating and air conditioning are rare. Pets are less common. They don't eat in restaurants much (street vendors seem to be preferred when eating out).

The average American lives much better than that. You probably do.
Your little assessment is cute.

Dosent change the price tags for goods and services though , which speaks far louder than your painted rosy imaginary world of prosperity.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
This is just your clickbait.
Goodness, so you are saying Trump did NOT say, “All of it, because of lots of things like Nikki Haley is in charge of security. We offered her 10,000 people, soldiers, National Guard, whatever they want. They turned it down. They don’t want to talk about that. These are very dishonest people.”

And even though we have it on tape -- I've heard it myself.

I mean, just wow.**mod edit**
 
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Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm surprised to see this from you. Biden belongs in the White House and Trump in prison, and when Biden retires, he'll return home, which is where he'll belong then.

Perhaps you aren't familiar with Biden's demographic. I am. I'm almost 70 myself and live in an expat retirement community, where my friends are all about 65-95. My regular bridge partner is 86, is still a world traveler, and does the books for his church. The average age of this crowd is probably mid-seventies, none of us are in retirement homes, and most of us lead active and productive lives.

My comment is not about people in Biden's and Trump's age range in general but rather about Biden and Trump themselves in particular. I'm aware that many senior citizens are capable of leading peoductive, active lives (including many I have seen on this forum over the years), but I think both Biden and Trump would do best to retire and make room for a younger president to lead. They both seem to be exhibiting some age-related issues regarding clarity of mind, which is especially pressing given the stressful nature of the job of the POTUS.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yup, both of these old white guys are getting up there in age, and both show decline to some degree. That is normal aging. The thing is who is a bigger threat with mental decline, Biden who is serving the American people and doing work to advance the economy and well-being, or a corrupt liar who has a history of fraud and cheating, as he faces 4 criminal trials? Trump is already disturbed, and him facing accountability for his crimes is adding to his stress and disability.

And before you bring up Hunter Biden, or the bogus Biden Family nonsense, Comer has failed to show any criminal activity that he accuses the president of doing. These MAGAs are wasting time and money for the sake of political theater. Are you buying their antics, and tolerant of the waste of time and money? Or do you demand they drop the nonsense and get to work serving the public good?
It seems that you're missing a big danger that
Trump singularly poses, eg, his belief that he may
legally have the military kill his political foes,
his intent to persecute & prosecute media who
criticize him.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems that you're missing a big danger that
Trump singularly poses, eg, his belief that he may
legally have the military kill his political foes,
his intent to persecute & prosecute media who
criticize him.

Another danger is his impulsivity and tendency to post incendiary comments about other countries on Twitter, both of which could conceivably lead to a third world war (especially if he kept poking China)—not to mention a war with Iran, to which he already came close as president.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Another danger is his impulsivity and tendency to post incendiary comments about other countries on Twitter, both of which could conceivably lead to a third world war (especially if he kept poking China)—not to mention a war with Iran, to which he already came close as president.
Aye, my list wasn't exhaustive.
Trump is also more of a hawk, & his impulsivity here
is particularly dangerous, eg, his aborted launching
of a war on Iran. We dodged the bullet there when
staff warned him off.
He once fancied himself as a keen negotiator.
But as Prez, we saw that he really lacked such skill.
It appears that his belief was based upon his
willingness to praise foreign potentates, eg, Kim
Jong Un, but he had no success. As for negotiating
with Dems, he simply railed at them.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Aye, my list wasn't exhaustive.
Trump is also more of a hawk, & his impulsivity here
is particularly dangerous, eg, his aborted launching
of a war on Iran. We dodged the bullet there when
staff warned him off.
He once fancied himself as a keen negotiator.
But as Prez, we saw that he really lacked such skill.
It appears that his belief was based upon his
willingness to praise foreign potentates, eg, Kim
Jong Un, but he had no success. As for negotiating
with Dems, he simply railed at them.

Just one of his major flaws seems to me a solid reason to write him off as POTUS, yet he has several and still has a chance of winning. That strikes me as a thoroughly sad reflection on American politics.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
My comment is not about people in Biden's and Trump's age range in general but rather about Biden and Trump themselves in particular. I'm aware that many senior citizens are capable of leading peoductive, active lives (including many I have seen on this forum over the years), but I think both Biden and Trump would do best to retire and make room for a younger president to lead. They both seem to be exhibiting some age-related issues regarding clarity of mind, which is especially pressing given the stressful nature of the job of the POTUS.
I see a very significant difference between the two, however -- in that, while Biden does indeed struggle to find the right word sometimes when speaking ex tempore, so do I and many other people. However, once we've found the word(s), our cogitations and decisions are usually still sound. Biden, at bottom, knows who he is and what he stands for. I don't happen to agree with everything (his stance on Israel, for example), but I don't see that his reasoning is confused -- just that he allows some premises that I do not.

I simply cannot say anything like that about Trump. As America's next door neighbour, I have to tell you I am about a million times more comfortable with 4 more years of Biden than I could ever be about 4 more of Trump!
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As America's next door neighbour, I have to tell you I am about a million times more comfortable with 4 more years of Biden than I could ever be about 4 more of Trump!
Me, too (we live in the other country that borders America). It's people living in the States that have the most at stake. What goes on there doesn't affect us much, but could if Trump were to try to punish Mexico or expats living there. We don't use Medicare, and we would be fine without Social Security, so he can't hurt us much there. If Trump were to withdraw America from NATO, that would be devastating to NATO nations while pleasing Putin and his ilk, but I'm not sure how that would affect Mexico.
Therefore?
Therefore they do what you said that you see no value in doing. They obviously disagree. They find value in deflection using whatabboutism, what you called a food fight.
My comment is not about people in Biden's and Trump's age range in general but rather about Biden and Trump themselves in particular. I'm aware that many senior citizens are capable of leading peoductive, active lives (including many I have seen on this forum over the years), but I think both Biden and Trump would do best to retire and make room for a younger president to lead. They both seem to be exhibiting some age-related issues regarding clarity of mind, which is especially pressing given the stressful nature of the job of the POTUS.
You said that Biden belongs in a retirement home. Maybe you misspoke and meant that it's time for Biden to retire. Retirement is his choice - when he's ready - and when that day comes, he won't need to be in a facility. Right now, he has work to do, and I'm hoping that he wins a second term and keeps up the good job.
Dosent change the price tags for goods and services though , which speaks far louder than your painted rosy imaginary world of prosperity.
My imaginary world of prosperity? I noted that the American economy and standard of living are robust compared with Mexico and much of the world. Your pessimism is manufactured by conservative indoctrination. They benefit by convincing you that your economic status is poor because a Democrat is incumbent.

Under Republicans, you'll hear much less of that. Why? Because many susceptible people are easily convinced to vote for the opposite party of the one in power when they feel economically disadvantaged, as if Trump and the Republicans would help them make that better for them - the ones talking about taking their Medicare, Obamacare, Social Security and fighting unions, higher minimum wages, lower drug prices, and student debt relief.

Why are you economically destitute at age 58, or are you exaggerating your situation? Do you have a roof over your head, enough food, a car with gas, clothes, heat in winter? Do you see movies? You obviously have a computer and Internet, and probably telephone service. Are you anticipating Medicare and Social Security? If so, you shouldn't be that unhappy. Most of the people around me have less but aren't unhappy. Of course, they don't listen to conservative agitprop. You probably would be happier if you didn't, either.

Poor people here aren't unhappy just because they live in what Americans call poverty, because nobody is telling them to be. We live directly across from an extended Mexican family and are friendly with them. They're happy people. Americans generally aren't, although those who come here to retire eventually decompress. They arrive tense. You can pick them out by the fact that they don't make eye contact or say hello when passing strangers on the street, and their faces are unsmiling. Eventually, they become more like the Mexicans and those of us who have been here for years.

And when locally acculturated Americans return to the States for a visit, they notice the differences more, and not just the worse weather and higher prices. It's the people, the culture. America just isn't a happy place for many there. It's seems like it's not a happy place for you, either, but I suspect that's because you imbibe conservative indoctrination regularly. Do yourself a favor and turn it off. I predict that you'll feel better.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
You said that Biden belongs in a retirement home. Maybe you misspoke and meant that it's time for Biden to retire. Retirement is his choice - when he's ready - and when that day comes, he won't need to be in a facility. Right now, he has work to do, and I'm hoping that he wins a second term and keeps up the good job.

I didn't misspeak, no; that was a facetious way of saying that I believe he should indeed retire.

While retirement is technically his choice and no one can force him to retire now (nor should they be able to), I remember when Ruth Bader Ginsburg stubbornly held on to her SCOTUS post and refused to retire during Obama's presidency. That would later prove to have been a profoundly damaging and arguably selfish decision that helped give Trump one more SCOTUS appointment and pack the court as he did. When one's decisions as a government official, whether as POTUS or a SCOTUS judge, carry so much weight and can affect hundreds of millions of people, I think it's fair for other people to analyze and criticize said decisions if they see sound reasons to do so.

A small minority of people live to their 90s, at least going by worldwide averages. By holding on to sensitive positions of power for that long, an octogenarian inevitably runs a heightened risk of suffering severe health issues or dying while on the job and causing various forms of damage, whether foreseen or unforeseen.

This doesn't mean that Trump isn't far worse than Biden, though. If I had to vote for either, I would hold my nose and vote against Trump to keep his unhinged, undemocratic self out of the White House—even if he were in his 40s or 50s rather than late 70s. I can't think of any issue on which I'm utterly disgusted with Biden that Trump wouldn't most likely be even worse at handling, sadly.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ok, can Biden sit for an hour long interview like Trump does routinely? You know Biden can't do that.
Yes, he can do that. Now Biden will on occasion make errors. His gaffes tend to be minor. Trumps tend to be much larger in scale than Biden's. Biden has nothing as insane as Trump's claim that George Washington manned the airports. Though he may have topped himself with mixing up Nikki Haley and Nancy Pelosi. It fails doubly because his claim of offering 10,000 troops to Pelosi was shown to be a lie. He never made such an offer. Nikki Haley was not even in office on January 6. She resigned from the Trump administration in October of 2018. Worse yet she was the ambassador to the UN. I do not see how even if she had been in office that she could have done anything. That is a totally different part of the administration.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
As if anyone is perfect. At least Biden isn't a corrupt, lying, racist who tried to cheat American voters in 2020 like Trump. Biden is getting the job done.

These campaign seasons are job interviews. Who in their right might mind would hire Trump to run their business? No one. Biden isn't loud and bombastic, he gets the job done quietly as you want a manager to do.

If you want a clown who puts on a show, Trump is your guy. He's not fit to be president. The only thing Trump has accomplished in the last 12 months is getting arrested four times. Oh, and wearing lots of makeup, as if that fools anyone. Why do you suppose a 77 year old married man decides to wear so much makeup? Biden doesn't.
None of which has a thing to do with dementia.
I'll take Trump anytime. At least he secures the borders, doesn't show so much weakness around the world that three new wars got started, or allowed the economy to collapse. But at least Biden informs us of his favorite ice cream flavors. I guess that's what's important to some people here.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
No, and this as was mentioned may be partially due to a stuttering problem that he used to have. He has made verbal gaffes throughout his entire career. To call it decline you would have to show that it has gotten worse. Like Trump has. And it appears to be occurring at a faster and faster rate.
What does evidence past stuttering have to do with his current mental decline? If his stuttering problem was a thing of the past, then how do you explain all of his gaffes that are very much current?
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
No, there's a guy who is 81 and getting the job done, and another who can't even keep his cool in court and follow the rules, as he is losing. Trump isn't even smart enough to try to limit his losses in court.
The only job he's getting done is bringing in 10 million foreigners to become future Democrat voters. Never mind that the law forbids all of it. Biden has never been one to obey laws. His son is a good demonstration of this.
 

Laniakea

Not of this world
Biden has a job. And no, Trump can't go an hour without a string of false accusations and lies. Trump is fueled by rage and fear. He faces losing his money and freedom, and the presidency is his only hope to have some power to stop the total collapse. And given that he thinks he (as president) can kill anyone who stands in his way and not be criminally charged is a warning.
Speaking of killing, Biden's weakness has us fighting wars on three fronts that didn't even exist while trump was in office. When trump was president, there were no new wars started at all.
 
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