? Everyone is Equal ?

[Pegg]

Claims, not show. You see much death and evil done for god because of god at his command but not a single death from satan.

really?

what about the account of Job...the death of all of his children was the devils doing.

Gods law says clearly that you must not murder... Satan has not obeyed that law, he is a murderer.

 

[greenfish77]

How can this god that is so perfect create something so imperfect such as humans?

 

[Iti oj]

really?

what about the account of Job...the death of all of his children was the devils doing.

Gods law says clearly that you must not murder... Satan has not obeyed that law, he is a murderer.

Go throug it with me please. Provide the relavent scripture and explain it to me.

 

[Blackdog22]

really?

what about the account of Job...the death of all of his children was the devils doing.

Gods law says clearly that you must not murder... Satan has not obeyed that law, he is a murderer.

The deaths of the Jews were the soldiers doing and Hitler is washed of all responsibility then if this is the backwards logic your gonna use to ensure God never has to hold to any responsibility.

 

[Blackdog22]

not in the slightest. God has been working with individuals since the fall of mankind and there have always been some who have continued to uphold his sovereignty and abide by his laws.

Abel, Noah, Abraham, Job...the list goes on and on. Just because he has given mankind time to act independently doesnt mean they have thwarted Gods will. Gods will is being done by some...and when the time is right, he will put an end to those who refuse to.

I am sure Penguin will have his own opinion to add, but I just have to say that this doesn't address his statement. If Gods plan has been thwarted by anyone at anytime at all then his plan has been thwarted. Calling towards a future where he will fix it all still means his plans have been thwarted for now. Not to mention there is no reason to assume this future will ever happen. God failed with the angels, he failed with the humans. He is 0/2. Either he fails by choice, which is an odd thing to do, or all that we know about him has failed for reasons I can't understand.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

but why should God fix all our problems when we are choosing to live independently of him and rejecting his laws and sovereignty? He is not obligated to help us out here.

When a young man leaves home and goes it alone, it is not his parents responsiblity to pay his rent, bills, fix the leaky tap, feed the dog, collect the mail, earn the money....if he was still living at home with them, then yes, it is their responsibility. But when you leave home it becomes your responsibility to look after yourself.

that is the current situation of mankind. Adam left his protective home (Eden) and chose to go it alone. We are his children and we are also fending for ourselves.

I think we're looking at the situation from different perspectives.

Let's go with your analogy of a house: if you have a guest in the house who's wrecking the place and you're perfectly capable of stopping him but you don't, then you can't really be said to care about keeping your house in good condition.

 

[Pegg]

How can this god that is so perfect create something so imperfect such as humans?

he didnt' create the first human pair imperfect...they were perfect at their creation.

But their disobedience led them away from God and thus all their children (who were born AFTER they had left God) were thus born into imperfection.

genetic imperfections are passed on from parents to children... and mental imperfections are passed on in the same way (this is how cultural mentalities develop)
And the consequences to Adam and Eve was death... God had to change their genetic makeup to include a gradual death. That genetic change was carried onto their offspring, so all die in the same way.

 

[Pegg]

Go throug it with me please. Provide the relavent scripture and explain it to me.

Satan challenged Jobs integrity... he tried to temp God to strike Job with suffering, but God would not do it so Satan did it himself.
Job 2:4 But Satan answered Jehovah and said: “Skin in behalf of skin, and everything that a man has he will give in behalf of his soul. 5 For a change, thrust out your hand, please, and touch as far as his bone and his flesh [and see] whether he will not curse you to your very face.”
6 Accordingly Jehovah said to Satan: “There he is in your hand! Only watch out for his soul itself!” 7 So Satan went out away from the person of Jehovah and struck Job

Satan was the perpetrator behind Jobs suffering... and he is the perpetrator of our suffering too.

Christians identified the cause of human suffering and they spoke about Satan in no uncertain terms....he is the enemy of mankind and we need to put up a fight against him
1Peter 5:8 Keep YOUR senses, be watchful. YOUR adversary, the Devil, walks about like a roaring lion, seeking to devour [someone]. 9 But take YOUR stand against him...'

 

[Pegg]

I think we're looking at the situation from different perspectives.

Let's go with your analogy of a house: if you have a guest in the house who's wrecking the place and you're perfectly capable of stopping him but you don't, then you can't really be said to care about keeping your house in good condition.

If you are renting a property to a tenant, you legally cannot just kick the tenant out onto the street.... and what if the tenant has severl children. Will you kick him and all his children out too? There are laws which protect tenants from such action because there are more issues at stake.

its the same with us. We are tenants of Gods creation. We are also Adams children and if God put an end to Adams life immediately, we would never have been born. So God views things from a much higher standpoint then we do. He knew that some of Adams offspring would be good, so why would he want to destroy so many lives just for the disobedience of one man? He wouldnt do that, his love and justice would never allow for such harsh action against all who had not sinned in the way Adam did.

So he allows Adams children to live in order for them to gain life. He may have evicted Adam out of any future life prospects, but he didnt evict us from the prospect of life.

 

[Pegg]

The deaths of the Jews were the soldiers doing and Hitler is washed of all responsibility then if this is the backwards logic your gonna use to ensure God never has to hold to any responsibility.

well it certainly wasnt God who killed them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If you are renting a property to a tenant, you legally cannot just kick the tenant out onto the street.... and what if the tenant has severl children. Will you kick him and all his children out too? There are laws which protect tenants from such action because there are more issues at stake.

I'm not talking about evicting anyone; I'm just talking about putting the Ming vases some place safe before they get broken, because you know they will get broken if you don't.

 

[Pegg]

*Post Removed*

you know there is an ignore button you are welcome to use

 

[Me Myself]

I believe God does have a plan, yes. It is to get us out of this plight we are in and restore us to what he originally intended.

Imperfection was not part of his plan....and i can say this because he has promised to remove it from us. Why would he vow to fix something if its not broke?

Having a plan does not make sense for an omnipotent being.

A limited being needs plans to achieve its objectived. An omnotent being doesnt even need to blink in order to get anything.

A plan is a series of steps one takes to achieve something, yet god doesnt need "steps" to achieve anything. If he did, he wouldnt be omnipotent.

 

[Pegg]

Having a plan does not make sense for an omnipotent being.

A limited being needs plans to achieve its objectived. An omnotent being doesnt even need to blink in order to get anything.

A plan is a series of steps one takes to achieve something, yet god doesnt need "steps" to achieve anything. If he did, he wouldnt be omnipotent.

the account of creation in the book of Genesis would state otherwise.

 

[ArcNinja]

the account of creation in the book of Genesis would state otherwise.

The account of creation in the book of Genesis would state a lot of things that are blatantly untrue.

 

[jonman122]

well it certainly wasnt God who killed them.

Didn't God flood the entire world once, killing every single inhabitant on it, every man woman and child, except one man and his family? I forget the story... something like 2 million people drowned, a few animals on a boat.. I forget what it's called.'

***Correction*** 20 million people, my bad

 

[jonman122]

I've just found an incredibly comprehensive list of all of the murders committed by god, here, take a look, there are scriptural references and all:

Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

 

[chinu]

do you view god as omni?

Yes, god is omni.

Ok, why is that?

Because there's no need to brighten the one who is already brighten

 

[McBell]

you know there is an ignore button you are welcome to use

You know your reply was nothing more than a blatant dishonest attempt at deflecting the point with pure utter bull ****, right?

 

[McBell]

Didn't God flood the entire world once, killing every single inhabitant on it, every man woman and child, except one man and his family? I forget the story... something like 2 million people drowned, a few animals on a boat.. I forget what it's called.'

***Correction*** 20 million people, my bad

[sarcasm]
But that was not God killing anyone, it was the water that killed them.
[/sarcasm]