Evidence -- making it useful

[TransmutingSoul]

I have posted a video that explains the Ashe experiments. It shows a subject in one test giving wrong answers to questions ONLY because the others in his group are giving the wrong answer, The guy is obviously stressed, but volunteering the wrong answers due to the stress of peer pressure. He is forced to give the wrong answers, his own mind. He is forcing himself to give wrong answers subconsciously, and his conscious mind knows they are wrong. This is similar to how theists can hold false and irrational ideas but not understand why they believe them.

Within the evidence given from God is advice as how to become independent in mind and choice, it is all about Justice. Not being a clone of others opinions, to weigh all things in justice in your own mind.

"O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."

This is How God is known, and how Faith works. God shows us all virtue and morals via a Messenger and the given Message.

Each person has the chance to look at what is given, in the light of Justice, weigh all that is offered in their own rational mind and come to a conclusion.

Those that are not able to sever their mind from worldly attachments and preconceived influences, will have a hard time judging any issue with Justice.

Regards Tony

 

[PearlSeeker]

Choice does not equate to stagnation, it allows progression, or regression. Not choosing, sitting on the fence, is stagnation.

Yes, but sometimes a choice can become comfort zone that doesn't allow free thinking. Sometimes the decision is not definite. It's just a working hypothesis that moves you forward (even if it ultimately fails).

 

[CG Didymus]

That is what free will is all about CG. The ability to choose.

Choice does not equate to stagnation, it allows progression, or regression. Not choosing, sitting on the fence, is stagnation.

Regards Tony

Ah yes, let's talk about stagnation. I've seen it in Christianity, and I've seen it in the Baha'i Faith. You know those nominal believers that just go to Church or Sunday or just go to the Baha'i feast every nineteen days... or maybe even less. How many Baha'is are continually growing and how many have put off learning, teaching and participating? Is the Baha'i Faith stagnating? Like in your community how many new believers were added this last year? How many in the last ten years? And how many that joined during those ten years are still active?

 

[F1fan]

Within the evidence given from God is advice as how to become independent in mind and choice, it is all about Justice. Not being a clone of others opinions, to weigh all things in justice in your own mind.

Nothing you say here is acceptable as true because you refer to a God as if it is a fact, and known to be xisting. No gods are known to exist. My free will allows me the freedom to read posts like yours and recognize and identify bad and deceptive claims. You have been warned about doing this yet you don;t care. Is that a result of your free will, to disrespect critical thinkers?

"O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes."

This is How God is known, and how Faith works. God shows us all virtue and morals via a Messenger and the given Message.

Nothing in your quoted text is evidence of any god existing. The text is little more than incoherent, religious ramblings. It offers no facts or practical advice, so I don't see any real value to anyone.

Each person has the chance to look at what is given, in the light of Justice, weigh all that is offered in their own rational mind and come to a conclusion.

It's funny that critical thinkers do this, and offer you well explained reasoning why your claims are rejected, but you don't care.

Those that are not able to sever their mind from worldly attachments and preconceived influences, will have a hard time judging any issue with Justice.

This is a typical religious claim, yet believers are very absorbed in their beliefs and egos. That is all quite worldly, and they don't understand it. Just because their beliefs are supposedly about an immaterial God they believe their mental experience is as well. No. All of it is very much of this world.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Ah yes, let's talk about stagnation. I've seen it in Christianity, and I've seen it in the Baha'i Faith. You know those nominal believers that just go to Church or Sunday or just go to the Baha'i feast every nineteen days... or maybe even less. How many Baha'is are continually growing and how many have put off learning, teaching and participating? Is the Baha'i Faith stagnating? Like in your community how many new believers were added this last year? How many in the last ten years? And how many that joined during those ten years are still active?

You only need to be concerned with your choices CG.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No gods are known to exist.

I see that is a complete denial of reality. The evidence God has given us via the Messages and the Revelations given by the Mesengers has been proved true by logical, just and unbiased minds.

Just to let you know I will not offer any more replies to this intentional blindness.

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

I see that is a complete denial of reality.

You think this, but can't explain how your view is accurate or correct.

I have seen no one demonstrate that any god exists, not anyone present adequate and compelling evidnce that any god exists, so why would you say I am denying reality?

The evidence God has given us via the Messages and the Revelations given by the Mesengers has been proved true by logical, just and unbiased minds.

You repeat this claim, and you have been responded to by critics, and they say what you claim is not adequate of compelling. You have a motive to believe, so could it be you are biased and critics are not?

To be honest just offering writings from a guy who claims to communicate with God is pretty weak. Anyone can claim to communicate with a God, and many believers do. The texts themselves are not very imrpessive as they are overly wordy, offer little in the way of practical advice, and what it does say is something most everyone thinks already. Let's note Baha'u'llah has falied to influence a difference. You'd figure a guy communicating with god will have a plan that would work. And don't forget the anti-gay bigotry that is a big turn off in the 21st century.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I see that is a complete denial of reality. The evidence God has given us via the Messages and the Revelations given by the Mesengers has been proved true by logical, just and unbiased minds.

Just to let you know I will not offer any more replies to this intentional blindness.

Regards Tony

People are open to evidence but it must be plausible. Real evidence is something that can be tested, demonstrated, verified, proved, experienced ... How can you verify someone is really a Messenger?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

1. How can a person, who claims to be a "Messenger from God," be identified as such by any means other than his own claim?
2. Would it not be necessary to show that "The Revelation" they give could not have been given unless it were provided by God? And can it be shown, before whatever transformation and change is intended actually occurs, that that transformation will be for the betterment of humanity?
3. Would it be necessary to show that "The Word - The Message" could not have been written or articulated by a mere human, without divine assistance? How would that be accomplished? And, like the writings of Karl Marx, sitting in the British Museum, can they be demonstrated to be certain to give the desired results? It does not appear, after all, that Marx's words did.

1. I think that one should rightly be vigilant of someone personally calling themselves a “messenger of God”. I don’t think that it is possible for someone who does not believe in gods, to identify any “messenger of God”. I think that those who believe in gods, would attempt to identify a “messenger of God” by how well they embody the ideals of that God. I think that those who believe in gods, would be careful to distinguish between worshiping a god and worshiping its messengers.
2. I think this may differ depending on type of faith, but that in matters of a Christian god and the Christian “holy message”, Man cannot assess conduct by its final results, because Man does not have access to the overall impact of a conduct. Therefore, Man assesses conduct by its impact on what is before him and is taught to trust that God attends to the judgement of that which he cannot foresee. The Christian idea is that if Man constantly attends to not himself impacting the circumstances he encounters negatively, his overall impact will be less destructive too. A Christian, in this sense, would mainly be concerned with whether a “messenger’s” message is inspiring to constructive self-vigilance in the constant present. If it is, the message would be in harmony with ideals from their Christian god - whether divinely inspired or not.
3. I think what I thought in point 2.

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[TransmutingSoul]

People are open to evidence but it must be plausible. Real evidence is something that can be tested, demonstrated, verified, proved, experienced ... How can you verify someone is really a Messenger?

Take note of the issues that face humanity, read and study the Message given.

There will be no doubt.

Regards Tony

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Take note of the issues that face humanity, read and study the Message given.

There will be no doubt.

Regards Tony

You'd be surprised at how much easier the skeptical find it to doubt, than do the gullible.

 

[Muffled]

Then why call it "evidence"? To be considered evidence it first must be reliable. And if you can't test it it cannot be reliable. What you are discussing are anecdotes and stories. They are not evidence.

As far as I know one can't produce mitosis; the organism has to do it on its own. Does that mean it is unreliable because you can't test it and it only occurs when it is ready?

 

[Muffled]

I have sobriety due to failing health. I guess I could blame God for that.

I believe you could but I believe most suffering occurs because of sin either in this life or a previous one. Even the suffering of Job was not caused by God but proceeded from the devil.

 

[Muffled]

We can't go back in a time machine and see for ourselves,
if that's what you mean.

I think it makes a lot of difference on the attitude one has when they are reading them. If a person dislikes something they read, they are likely to reject it.

..so yes .. psychology most surely is involved here.

I believe we can't go back in time yet but God exists throughout all time so He can always be asked for info.

 

[F1fan]

I believe you could but I believe most suffering occurs because of sin either in this life or a previous one. Even the suffering of Job was not caused by God but proceeded from the devil.

Well, assuming a God exists as you think it does. And assuming sin is an actual thing, which is doubtful and lacks evidence. Salvation is absurd, anyway, given the whole story starts with Adam and Eve, goes through a global flood, and ends up with God creating a child just so he can be executed to atone for the sins of humans in a world God created.

And assuming health problems isn't largely just the lottery of life, just as some children are born with defects or genes that cause cancer, and not God deliberately causing these problems for children.

Or do you think God deliberately put genes in children that cause them cancer? And often a premature, and painful death?

 

[Subduction Zone]

As far as I know one can't produce mitosis; the organism has to do it on its own. Does that mean it is unreliable because you can't test it and it only occurs when it is ready?

How did you mangle your interpretation of my post so badly?

 

[CG Didymus]

This is How God is known, and how Faith works. God shows us all virtue and morals via a Messenger and the given Message.

Each person has the chance to look at what is given, in the light of Justice, weigh all that is offered in their own rational mind and come to a conclusion.

Okay, what is the conclusion you came to for the various people that Baha'is say are manifestations of God? For Adam, then Abraham and Noah. Then go to the various incarnations of Vishnu, and what is your conclusion? But does the Baha'i Faith believe in any of the others? Or just Krishna? Then take a look at what was taught by Buddha. What conclusions do you come up with? And only going by what the Scriptures of those religions say about them, since what Baha'u'llah and the Baha'i Faith says about them wasn't available to those people.

Like I keep saying, if all we go by is what the Bible says about Adam, no way is he a manifestation of God. And I don't think a "rational" mind can make Noah or Abraham into manifestations either. But let's see if you can give a good, Bible-based argument why they are. Then let's see what you can do with Krishna and Buddha and see what your "rational" reasons are for not mentioning the other incarnations of Vishnu. And remember, base it only on the Scriptures of those religions. Later, we can talk about the Baha'i interpretation of how and why Baha'is believe these people were manifestations.

 

[Eric Hyom]

My free will allows me the freedom to read posts like yours and recognize and identify bad and deceptive claims. You have been warned about doing this yet you don;t care. Is that a result of your free will, to disrespect critical thinkers?

Use your critical thinking to provide Evidence to two questions.

How did the universe come into existence by natural causes?

How did life start from non - life, and only by natural causes.

If you have No evidence, that makes you a critical thinker who is happy to be right.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, but sometimes a choice can become comfort zone that doesn't allow free thinking. Sometimes the decision is not definite. It's just a working hypothesis that moves you forward (even if it ultimately fails).

It sure seems like that. "True" believers get locked into their beliefs so much so that they defend them beyond reason and rationality. Christians, Baha'is or any other similar religion, that thinks their guy spoke the truth from God, doesn't allow thinking beyond what they are told to believe. They are taught that is the truth and not to doubt it. And, for those that truly believed or tried to believe, it becomes very difficult to break free and admit that they were wrong and what their religion taught was wrong.

Ironically, Baha'is say that Christians should not take the Bible and NT so literally, yet they take their teachings extremely literally. "This is what God is like." Which automatically makes him real. "Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ and is the latest manifestation of God" They call for peace and unity but have already put up a barrier that gets some people to turn away and reject them.

The good and useful teaching become irrelevant, because they insist on their interpretation of God and their belief that Baha'u'llah is his manifestation as the most important. Can they ever put those beliefs to the side in order to actually be at peace and live in unity with others that have different beliefs?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Use your critical thinking to provide Evidence to two questions.

How did the universe come into existence by natural causes?

How did life start from non - life, and only by natural causes.

If you have No evidence, that makes you a critical thinker who is happy to be right.

Sorry Eric, but you are not reasoning critically. Let's say that he does not have an explanation for the origin of the universe. What does that mean? What is that evidence for?

As to abiogenesis that is problem that is mostly solved. It is not solved all of the way yet, but do you really think that science cannot come up with an explanation? I doubt if you know enough about the topic to form a valid objection to it.