Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[metis]

This thread reminds me of agreements like "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?".

 

[SkepticThinker]

Lol no but maybe another time. I realize you don't believe that Noah lived for hundreds of years. Later...

Why do you believe that?

 

[Monty]

Why do you believe that?

And do they also believe that Noah and his sister Naamah only ever had sex once to celebrate his 500th birthday (Gen 5:32).

And do they believe that Adam and his sister first had sex to celebrate their 130th birthdays, or that the birds and bees told them how to do it when they were about 11 years old (Gen 5:1-3)?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Are you talking about a claim that came out in the last two years? That particular claim was trashed.

Are you talking about the one sponsored by religious organizations and lead by a guy that has fraud convictions? With photoshopped evidence?

I think that one is pretty well debunked.

The fact is that nothing outside the claims of the Bible are known about Sodom and Gomorrah. No knows where they were located, if they existed at all. Could have been a couple of tiny villages wiped by an earthquake for all anyone knows. In fact, it is more likely a quake or vulcanism of some community that inspired the story.

While I don't seriously consider celestial objects as the source, airbursts have occurred and left evidence behind. While not championing the idea, it is another possibility for a story no one knows much about other than Genesis.

I'm sure that several thousand years ago it was thrilling campfire banter.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Are you talking about the one sponsored by religious organizations and lead by a guy that has fraud convictions? With photoshopped evidence?

I think that one is pretty well debunked.

The fact is that nothing outside the claims of the Bible are known about Sodom and Gomorrah. No knows where they were located, if they existed at all. Could have been a couple of tiny villages wiped by an earthquake for all anyone knows. In fact, it is more likely a quake or vulcanism of some community that inspired the story.

While I don't seriously consider celestial objects as the source, airbursts have occurred and left evidence behind. While not championing the idea, it is another possibility for a story no one knows much about other than Genesis.

I'm sure that several thousand years ago it was thrilling campfire banter.

Yes, I do agree with that. Airbursts are a possibility. What irks me is when people claim to have found it and later investigation shows that they likely faked their evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, I do agree with that. Airbursts are a possibility. What irks me is when people claim to have found it and later investigation shows that they likely faked their evidence.

That ticks me off too. It gets under my skin that all these fringe "researchers" and creationists have the availability and validation of the internet to keep whacky ideas floating around.

Apparently, it was all sponsored by literalist Christian organizations. Way to follow the old Ten Commandments.

 

[shunyadragon]

It could be for the flood. But Israel is too far away from the Greek isle that you brought up for it to do any serious damage. There could have been some light ash falls, but that is probably about it. You should compare the distance of that island to Israel and then see how much damage Mt. St. Helens did at that distance.

Actually, The volcanic eruption were large enough to cause Tsunamis, enough ash to cause what was called the plagues, but their are timing problems with the claims all this occurred at one time during the Exodus account. Yes these plagues were in the memories of the Egyptians and Israelites believed to be caused by Gods, and may have been devastating events particularly in Egypt, but not all at the same time frame.

The Parting of the Sea

press.princeton.edu

"For more than four decades, biblical experts have tried to place the story of Exodus into historical context — without success. What could explain the Nile turning to blood, insects swarming the land, and the sky falling to darkness? Integrating biblical accounts with substantive archaeological evidence, The Parting of the Sea looks at how natural phenomena shaped the stories of Exodus, the Sojourn in the Wilderness, and the Israelite conquest of Canaan. Barbara Sivertsen demonstrates that the Exodus was in fact two separate exoduses both triggered by volcanic eruptions — and provides scientific explanations for the ten plagues and the parting of the Red Sea. Over time, Israelite oral tradition combined these events into the Exodus narrative known today.


Skillfully unifying textual and archaeological records with details of ancient geological events, Sivertsen shows how the first exodus followed a 1628 B.C.E Minoan eruption that produced all but one of the first nine plagues. The second exodus followed an eruption of a volcano off the Aegean island of Yali almost two centuries later, creating the tenth plague of darkness and a series of tsunamis that “parted the sea” and drowned the pursuing Egyptian army. Sivertsen’s brilliant account explains inconsistencies in the biblical story, fits chronologically with the conquest of Jericho, and confirms that the Israelites were in Canaan before the end of the sixteenth century B.C.E.


In examining oral traditions and how these practices absorb and process geological details through storytelling, The Parting of the Sea reveals how powerful historical narratives are transformed into myth."

The impact in Israel in any form of flood Tsunami due to volcanics causing the Noah flood is impossible considering the geography. There is geologic evidence of Tsunamis at various times in the coastal areas of Egypt and Israel, but nothing here relates as a cause of any sort of Biblical flood nor the timing of Exodus.

Remember the Biblical Exodus plagues, flood was a God caused world flood and not natural events.
.

 

[shunyadragon]

None of that, however, changes the fact that the KJV & OJB & YLT clearly say that the flood height was only 15 cubits.
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise; and the harim were covered. (OJB)
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (KJV)
Fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered; (YLT)

In contrast, other versions such as the NRSV say absolutely nothing at all about the actual flood height except that it was probably over 15,000 cubits.

If you are not familiar with the English language I suggest you ask someone to explain that verse to you and the use and meaning of a semicolon, which says that the flood height was 15 cubits (SEMICOLON), and that the mountains were covered by at least a millimetre of water, and clearly DOES NOT say that the mountains were covered by 15 cubits, and that the actual flood height was therefore unknown.

And FYI the universe is billions of years old and life evolved over millions of years, and why there are six distinct biogeographical zones with their own unique ranges of flora and fauna, which is why kangaroos are not native to the Middle East as claimed by those who say the flood height was over 15,000 cubits.

Again . . . in all translations the mountains or harim were covered.

 

[Monty]

Again . . . in all translations the mountains or harim were covered.

IOW the flood was only 15 cubits high, and the harim/mountains in the flooded zone within the horizon were therefore less than 15 cubits higher than the normal river height when not in flood, and why most of Noah's family and their animals were drowned since they couldn't swim to the horizon under the whole heavens.

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise;

and the harim were covered. (OJB)​

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail;

and the mountains were covered. (KJV)​

Fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty,

and the mountains are covered; (YLT)​

 

[Subduction Zone]

Actually, The volcanic eruption were large enough to cause Tsunamis, enough ash to cause what was called the plagues, but their are timing problems with the claims all this occurred at one time during the Exodus account. Yes these plagues were in the memories of the Egyptians and Israelites believed to be caused by Gods, and may have been devastating events particularly in Egypt, but not all at the same time frame.

The Parting of the Sea

press.princeton.edu

"For more than four decades, biblical experts have tried to place the story of Exodus into historical context — without success. What could explain the Nile turning to blood, insects swarming the land, and the sky falling to darkness? Integrating biblical accounts with substantive archaeological evidence, The Parting of the Sea looks at how natural phenomena shaped the stories of Exodus, the Sojourn in the Wilderness, and the Israelite conquest of Canaan. Barbara Sivertsen demonstrates that the Exodus was in fact two separate exoduses both triggered by volcanic eruptions — and provides scientific explanations for the ten plagues and the parting of the Red Sea. Over time, Israelite oral tradition combined these events into the Exodus narrative known today.


Skillfully unifying textual and archaeological records with details of ancient geological events, Sivertsen shows how the first exodus followed a 1628 B.C.E Minoan eruption that produced all but one of the first nine plagues. The second exodus followed an eruption of a volcano off the Aegean island of Yali almost two centuries later, creating the tenth plague of darkness and a series of tsunamis that “parted the sea” and drowned the pursuing Egyptian army. Sivertsen’s brilliant account explains inconsistencies in the biblical story, fits chronologically with the conquest of Jericho, and confirms that the Israelites were in Canaan before the end of the sixteenth century B.C.E.


In examining oral traditions and how these practices absorb and process geological details through storytelling, The Parting of the Sea reveals how powerful historical narratives are transformed into myth."

The impact in Israel in any form of flood Tsunami due to volcanics causing the Noah flood is impossible considering the geography. There is geologic evidence of Tsunamis at various times in the coastal areas of Egypt and Israel, but nothing here relates as a cause of any sort of Biblical flood nor the timing of Exodus.

Remember the Biblical Exodus plagues, flood was a God caused world flood and not natural events.
.

That is interesting, but we were discussing Sodom and Gomorrah. And when I said "light" I should have been a bit clearer. Even though further away, assuming that it had a higher energy level it could have caused ash falls as were experienced in Spokane. The "brimstone" would have been nonexistent at that distance. Spokane is about 300 miles from Mt. St Helens and got about an inch of ash from it. Though the news reports say that it was "buried in ash for days":

‘Nobody had an answer’: When Spokane found itself buried in volcanic ash 40 years ago, it struggled to respond

As ash from the eruption of Mount St. Helens 290 miles away darkened the sky above Spokane and began to fall onto the streets, businesses and homes below, nobody knew how dangerous it was. Not even the people in government tasked with coordinating a response.

www.spokesman.com

Santorini is twice as far away so even though stronger it would not be strong enough to rain down fire and brimstone on Israel.

 

[Monty]

That is interesting, but we were discussing Sodom and Gomorrah. And when I said "light" I should have been a bit clearer. Even though further away, assuming that it had a higher energy level it could have caused ash falls as were experienced in Spokane. The "brimstone" would have been nonexistent at that distance. Spokane is about 300 miles from Mt. St Helens and got about an inch of ash from it. Though the news reports say that it was "buried in ash for days":

‘Nobody had an answer’: When Spokane found itself buried in volcanic ash 40 years ago, it struggled to respond

As ash from the eruption of Mount St. Helens 290 miles away darkened the sky above Spokane and began to fall onto the streets, businesses and homes below, nobody knew how dangerous it was. Not even the people in government tasked with coordinating a response.

www.spokesman.com

Santorini is twice as far away so even though stronger it would not be strong enough to rain down fire and brimstone on Israel.

But where does the bible say that the S&G story was about an actual event in Israel. It could have been just a fictional story based on the explosive eruption of Santorini which was probably the largest volcanic eruption in human history, and was probably also the source for the fictional story of Atlantis and also referred to in the Exodus fictional story?

 

[shunyadragon]

That is interesting, but we were discussing Sodom and Gomorrah. And when I said "light" I should have been a bit clearer. Even though further away, assuming that it had a higher energy level it could have caused ash falls as were experienced in Spokane. The "brimstone" would have been nonexistent at that distance. Spokane is about 300 miles from Mt. St Helens and got about an inch of ash from it. Though the news reports say that it was "buried in ash for days":

‘Nobody had an answer’: When Spokane found itself buried in volcanic ash 40 years ago, it struggled to respond

As ash from the eruption of Mount St. Helens 290 miles away darkened the sky above Spokane and began to fall onto the streets, businesses and homes below, nobody knew how dangerous it was. Not even the people in government tasked with coordinating a response.

www.spokesman.com

Santorini is twice as far away so even though stronger it would not be strong enough to rain down fire and brimstone on Israel.

I missed that. Though this is relevant to the catastrophic events in ancient history believed that are caused by God as referenced, Actually, the Biblical catastrophic events may be related to other ancient catastrophic events in the memories of the history of the Levant. The Biblical stories are likely inspired by these memories event though they are out of place in Biblical history. Sodom and Gomorrah were possibly destroyed by an earthquake. Earthquakes in the region are sometimes associated with the release of poisonous gas and dust,

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Earthquakes or Volcanoes?

www.earthmagazine.org

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Earthquakes or Volcanoes?​

by Sam Lemonick
Thursday, June 7, 2018

This salt pillar on Mount Sodom is nicknamed Lot's Wife, a reference to the biblical story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Credit: ©iStockphoto.com/Сергей Пономарев.

The name of the Dead Sea’s Mount Sodom comes from the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Old Testament says God destroyed the cities with fire and “flaming smoke” for the sins of their inhabitants. God allowed Lot and his family to flee the destruction. But Lot’s wife disobeyed God’s orders and was turned into a pillar of salt. Mount Sodom is made almost entirely of halite — sodium chloride — and among the formations near the Dead Sea is a pillar known as Lot’s Wife.

Geologists think nature may have helped inspire the story.

There are multiple scientific theories to explain the events in the Bible. One possibility is that an earthquake in the seismically active Dead Sea region destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. In a variation of this idea, climate change may have brought a drought to the area — described as once-fertile but barren after God’s destruction — and an earthquake was the final blow that ruined an already crippled society. Another explanation is that an earthquake caused a flood that wiped out the cities. One problem with all of these ideas is that they do not entirely account for the Bible’s description of fire and brimstone.

For many, the fire raining from the sky and the “dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace” that Abraham sees in the aftermath, suggest a volcano was the culprit. But there’s little evidence of volcanic activity near the Dead Sea. Therefore, some researchers think a more plausible location of Sodom and Gomorrah is southern Syria, where an eruption did occur at a time when the cities are thought to have existed, around the early or middle Bronze Age.

In Syria, southwest of Damascus, large basaltic flows date to within a millennium of the presumed age of the biblical destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The flows originated from volcanoes along the Dead Sea transform fault system. Buried under one flow are two settlements with dwellings and numerous animal bones. Large gravesites near the lava are also consistent with a catastrophe. These findings and the paucity of archaeological evidence tying humans to the Dead Sea area at this time make a Syrian location for Sodom and Gomorrah more likely. Scholars, however, now think the story is an amalgamation of real places and occurrences rather than a single historical event.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I missed that. Though this is relevant to the catastrophic events in ancient history believed that are caused by God as referenced, Actually, the Biblical catastrophic events may be related to other ancient catastrophic events in the memories of the history of the Levant. The Biblical stories are likely inspired by these memories event though they are out of place in Biblical history. Sodom and Gomorrah were possibly destroyed by an earthquake. Earthquakes in the region are sometimes associated with the release of poisonous gas and dust,

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Earthquakes or Volcanoes?

www.earthmagazine.org

The Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah: Earthquakes or Volcanoes?​

by Sam Lemonick
Thursday, June 7, 2018

This salt pillar on Mount Sodom is nicknamed Lot's Wife, a reference to the biblical story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Credit: ©iStockphoto.com/Сергей Пономарев.

The name of the Dead Sea’s Mount Sodom comes from the biblical story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Old Testament says God destroyed the cities with fire and “flaming smoke” for the sins of their inhabitants. God allowed Lot and his family to flee the destruction. But Lot’s wife disobeyed God’s orders and was turned into a pillar of salt. Mount Sodom is made almost entirely of halite — sodium chloride — and among the formations near the Dead Sea is a pillar known as Lot’s Wife.

Geologists think nature may have helped inspire the story.

There are multiple scientific theories to explain the events in the Bible. One possibility is that an earthquake in the seismically active Dead Sea region destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. In a variation of this idea, climate change may have brought a drought to the area — described as once-fertile but barren after God’s destruction — and an earthquake was the final blow that ruined an already crippled society. Another explanation is that an earthquake caused a flood that wiped out the cities. One problem with all of these ideas is that they do not entirely account for the Bible’s description of fire and brimstone.

For many, the fire raining from the sky and the “dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace” that Abraham sees in the aftermath, suggest a volcano was the culprit. But there’s little evidence of volcanic activity near the Dead Sea. Therefore, some researchers think a more plausible location of Sodom and Gomorrah is southern Syria, where an eruption did occur at a time when the cities are thought to have existed, around the early or middle Bronze Age.

In Syria, southwest of Damascus, large basaltic flows date to within a millennium of the presumed age of the biblical destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The flows originated from volcanoes along the Dead Sea transform fault system. Buried under one flow are two settlements with dwellings and numerous animal bones. Large gravesites near the lava are also consistent with a catastrophe. These findings and the paucity of archaeological evidence tying humans to the Dead Sea area at this time make a Syrian location for Sodom and Gomorrah more likely. Scholars, however, now think the story is an amalgamation of real places and occurrences rather than a single historical event.

I have no doubt that many of the myths of the Old Testament were inspired by real events. And if you ever saw a movie that was "inspired by a true story" and then read the true story itself you might be amazed at how even such recent examples have changed so much. My only objection to his example was the distance. And yes, if anything I would think it was a more local event as your article mentioned. Or even events. I would look to Babylon for the inspiration of many of the tales of Genesis besides just the Noah's Ark myth.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There were likely large masses of water in the sky.

Were they suspended with an anti-gravitation aparatus?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

After a year of nothing to implant into?

If you press on, I fully expect this trail of thought to end up in the usual "...and then a miracle occured!"

 

[SavedByTheLord]

If you press on, I fully expect this trail of thought to end up in the usual "...and then a miracle occured!"

Well 6 day creation by God, the fall in the garden, the worldwide flood are all miracles.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well 6 day creation by God, the fall in the garden, the worldwide flood are all miracles.

So your explanation is magic. That still does not explain all of the evidence that tells us that God did not flood the Earth. You can do anything with magic, if you have a powerful enough magician. But it now appears that you are claiming that God lied by covering up the evidence of his evil deed by using magic.

 

[Monty]

Well 6 day creation by God, the fall in the garden, the worldwide flood are all miracles.

And they're all just fantasy stories in a book, just like the stories about the Rainbow Serpent who was much nicer than the biblical serpent.

 

[Altfish]

Here we shall discuss evidence of NOAH's FLOOD. There is ongoing scientific research that has brought to light many interesting finds, that contrary to some or many ---- does in fact point more and more to a monumental worldwide cataclysm that is labelled the FLOOD in GOD's Word: Global Evidences of the Genesis Flood

Oh my giddy aunt!
Are you really using AiG as your reference?
AiG and science are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well 6 day creation by God, the fall in the garden, the worldwide flood are all miracles.

"and then magic occured!"

Yep, makes totally more sense then demonstrable natural processes backed by evidence.