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Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Who thinks the universe came from nothing? Not me.
Well, here is what Dr. Stephen Hawking said: "there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
And I can only figure some believe that is true because a famous scientist said that.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
Well, here is what Dr. Stephen Hawking said: "there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
And I can only figure some believe that is true because a famous scientist said that.
I think his language might have been somewhat careless.

After all, nothing, cannot by definition, exist. ;)
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The longer you leave the experiment running (and one stopwatch rotating) the more the margin of error will diminish, a few months, would be good enough, for a standard turn table. You'd need decent stopwatches!
Yeah, I am old school so I was thinking wind up stop watches. You can get a few hours out of one of them. I do not know how long digital ones will run. You could probably get a few months out of them.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well, here is what Dr. Stephen Hawking said: "there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
And I can only figure some believe that is true because a famous scientist said that.
He is not wrong. The formation of the universe from nothing does not break any scientific law. I know that this is hard to understand. But one thing that a famous physicist said long before Hawking's time was "Energy is just bookkeeping". And as long as the books balance one does not break the law of conservation of energy. The total energy of the universe has been measured. It is zero, or as close as we can measure it to be. There are both negative and positive energy. If they balance we can have mass and yet not break the law of conservation of energy. Positive energy in one place is balanced by negative energy elsewhere.
 

Little Dragon

Well-Known Member
He is not wrong. The formation of the universe from nothing does not break any scientific law. I know that this is hard to understand. But one thing that a famous physicist said long before Hawking's time was "Energy is just bookkeeping". And as long as the books balance one does not break the law of conservation of energy. The total energy of the universe has been measured. It is zero, or as close as we can measure it to be. There are both negative and positive energy. If they balance we can have mass and yet not break the law of conservation of energy. Positive energy in one place is balanced by negative energy elsewhere.
Yes, the positive mass energy of the universe, is precisely equal to the negative gravitational energy of the universe. Hypothetically.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
He is not wrong. The formation of the universe from nothing does not break any scientific law. I know that this is hard to understand. But one thing that a famous physicist said long before Hawking's time was "Energy is just bookkeeping". And as long as the books balance one does not break the law of conservation of energy. The total energy of the universe has been measured. It is zero, or as close as we can measure it to be. There are both negative and positive energy. If they balance we can have mass and yet not break the law of conservation of energy. Positive energy in one place is balanced by negative energy elsewhere.
ok. energy is bookkeeping and of course bookkeeping comes from something or nothing? or anything maybe. got it. (thanks)
 

Monty

Active Member

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
ok. energy is bookkeeping and of course bookkeeping comes from something or nothing? or anything maybe. got it. (thanks)
It is not wise to make fun of a concept just because it is beyond your understanding. There are ways to check to see if the idea is reasonable. Your instincts are not a good guide. Neither are mine. There are things about quantum physics that still annoy me. But it does no good to get mad at reality.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Because the Indo-Australian plate is continuing to move northward at the rate of ~70 mm/year or 70 kilometres/million years, after Gondwana broke up about 150 million years ago.
How do you know how many years ago it happened and how it happened?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yes? how you know that?
From the geologic record. It would take months to go over all of the evidence.

But here is a quick summary of one sort. Are you aware that Europe and North America are moving apart from each other? We can and have measured that. We are also getting closer to other areas. So where does the split occur? It happens along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. New material, magma that forms basalt from the top of the mantle flows up and forms new land that is later consumed in subduction zones. There is a fair amount of iron in basalt and some of it is magnetic (not all oxides of iron are magnetic) . When the basalt cools it locks in a record of the direction and strength of the Earth's magnetic field at that time. The Earth's magnetic filed also reverses at times. So if the split is roughly even and the rock records the magnetic field then that should be detectable. And we can have detected that. In the 1960's the ocean's local magnetic fields were recorded by ships towing a magnetometers. They found just such a pattern . The maps that you see of the Mid Atlantic and other ridges were based upon such studies. They also dated rocks at specific locales to test this hypothesis. All of the data agreed. It shows not only that the continents moved, but by how much and when.
 

Monty

Active Member
How do you know how many years ago it happened and how it happened?
Because there is not a skerrick of evidence that less than 4000 years ago a god waved it's magic wand in order to drown most of Noah's family for being naughty, and because there is plenty of scientific evidence to support the hypotheses of plate movement which is easily measured now and as witnessed from volcanic activity and earthquakes.
 
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Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
He is not wrong. The formation of the universe from nothing does not break any scientific law. I know that this is hard to understand. But one thing that a famous physicist said long before Hawking's time was "Energy is just bookkeeping". And as long as the books balance one does not break the law of conservation of energy. The total energy of the universe has been measured. It is zero, or as close as we can measure it to be. There are both negative and positive energy. If they balance we can have mass and yet not break the law of conservation of energy. Positive energy in one place is balanced by negative energy elsewhere.
As a Christian, educated, and trained in biology, even I have trouble wrapping my head around that. I can only image how lost the creationists must feel, especially those from faith groups with apparent aversions to education and mandates to deny science.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
This is a very early map of magnetic anomalies from 1966:

1696989336078.png


That is just one small section of the Earth. But even there you can see the rough match from one side to the other. Here is a modern map of the sea floor where they incorporate the data from countless scans, many done by satellites today and with selected dating of the rock Red is new, blue is old.


1696989501588.png



EDIT: The following is a map of absolute motion of the plates as measured by satellite from the above source:

1696990233196.png
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
As a Christian, educated, and trained in biology, even I have trouble wrapping my head around that. I can only image how lost the creationists must feel, especially those from faith groups with apparent aversions to education and mandates to deny science.
Well the cool thing is that one need not discuss astrophysics when discussing evolution. It is only the desperate that move the goal posts that far.
 
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