Evolution and Creationism both have equal value and scientific evidence to support them.

[Danmac]

I have the perfect conclusion to M-Theory.
I call it the super string theory.

Imagine the world, the universe and all energy therein, is made of tiny vibrating strings.
What would that imply...?
I dunno.

...

Since you dunno, we'll have to wait for a scientific conclusion on M-theory.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And so could you.

So you admit the Bible's depiction of Jesus is no more or less reliable than the world of anyone else on earth?

The difference is that Tristesse is giving you many valid options - the Bible gives you one. Which is more likely to be lying to you? The book that tells you there is only one possible answer, or the person who suggests that there could be many explanations and that no particular one holds essential truth?

There is an element of truth to many religions.

Then maybe that's all there is to your religion - an element of truth, but it is not true in it's entirety.

This is the point I make about Darwin. He may not have existed either.

Except for the fact that we have articles and documents from thousands of his contemporaries, his own direct words and even a few hundred photographs of him knocking around. Jesus, on the other hand, is included in little to no historical documentation, there is no word of his existence or of any of his miracles from any of his contemporary historians and the Bible - which is pretty-much the only source we have on him - was written some twenty to thirty years after his supposed death and compiled by people who supposedly never met him.

Darwin did exist. With Jesus, there is a lot of doubt.

Well I may be lying, but then again I may be telling the truth.

When you cannot decide whether someone is lying or telling the truth you have to use logic to deduce which of the two options is more likely to be true, and employ evidence from which you can come to a conclusion.

In the case of personal experiences, nobody except you has any reason to take your claims as being true since your claims are 1) extraordinary, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and 2) have no evidence whatsoever other than your own word. It's clear that you believe what you believe, but in mine and many people's experiences when people claim to have personally received a message from God they're usually either lying or deluded, therefore it is more likely that you are one or the other rather than being 100% accurate and honest.

Sorry, that's just how it works until you can provide reasonable evidence.

Conscience. That is why humans are the only creatures that experience guilt. Humans are the only creatures with a moral code.

That doesn't prove humans have souls - in fact, it doesn't prove anything. What's more, humans - in spite of having a moral code - are capable of greater evil and self-destruction than any other animal on the planet. In spite of having morals, we are still capable of and willing to enact genocide and war upon our own species - something very few animals do.

 

[Danmac]

So you admit the Bible's depiction of Jesus is no more or less reliable than the world of anyone else on earth?

From personal experience I am persuaded to believe every jot and tittle of the holy scriptures.

The difference is that Tristesse is giving you many valid options - the Bible gives you one. Which is more likely to be lying to you? The book that tells you there is only one possible answer, or the person who suggests that there could be many explanations and that no particular one holds essential truth?

My religion is unique to all other religions. All other religions are fundamentally alike.

Then maybe that's all there is to your religion - an element of truth, but it is not true in it's entirety.

I personally know a man that was an enforcer in a very violent motorcycle gang. Very sociopathic while active in the gang. That was up until the time he converted to Christianity. I do not know of a more kind person today than he. From a psychological perspective can you explain how this could happen?

Except for the fact that we have articles and documents from thousands of his contemporaries, his own direct words and even a few hundred photographs of him knocking around. Jesus, on the other hand, is included in little to no historical documentation, there is no word of his existence or of any of his miracles from any of his contemporary historians and the Bible - which is pretty-much the only source we have on him - was written some twenty to thirty years after his supposed death and compiled by people who supposedly never met him.

Yes, but this could just be a conspiracy to attack Christianity. Is it possible that the pictures and articles are all a concocted scheme to derail Christianity?

Darwin did exist. With Jesus, there is a lot of doubt.

I do not at this time accept that Darwin existed.

When you cannot decide whether someone is lying or telling the truth you have to use logic to deduce which of the two options is more likely to be true, and employ evidence from which you can come to a conclusion.

If a man believes blue is green, then his deductions will always lead him to embrace what is false.

That doesn't prove humans have souls - in fact, it doesn't prove anything. What's more, humans - in spite of having a moral code - are capable of greater evil and self-destruction than any other animal on the planet. In spite of having morals, we are still capable of and willing to enact genocide and war upon our own species - something very few animals do.

But animals don't have the aclu.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

From personal experience I am persuaded to believe every jot and tittle of the holy scriptures.

Including killing insubordinate children, sacrificing animals and not eating meat on thursdays?

My religion is unique to all other religions. All other religions are fundamentally alike.

Wrong, Christianity is pretty-much exactly the same as all other religions. Even it's central doctrine is not unique to it, and most of it's practices, holidays and myths were lifted from previous pagan rituals and beliefs.

I personally know a man that was an enforcer in a very violent motorcycle gang. Very sociopathic while active in the gang. That was up until the time he converted to Christianity. I do not know of a more kind person today than he. From a psychological perspective can you explain how this could happen?

Simple: religion can help people become better people. Some people need that psychological reassurance. But you do not need religion in order to be a good person, and anybody who does is obviously not a good person to begin with.

What does any of this have to do with your beliefs being true or not?

Yes, but this could just be a conspiracy to attack Christianity. Is it possible that the pictures and articles are all a concocted scheme to derail Christianity?

Possible, but extremely, extremely, extremely unlikely considering that neither Darwin nor the theory of evolution harm Christianity in any way, shape or form. Are you seriously suggesting that thousands of scholars, historians and scientists from the last 150 years - many of them Christians - would co-conspire in an elaborate plot to undermine Christianity?

Why is it that you deny basic facts that are in front of your face and assert that they are nothing more that elaborate conspiracies, yet you're willing to take the Bible's word at face value no matter how ridiculous it's claims are? No matter what way you try to justify it, that is pure and simple delusion.

I do not at this time accept that Darwin existed.

Then you're utterly deluded.

If a man believes blue is green, then his deductions will always lead him to embrace what is false.

You're the one who believes truth is contrary to reality, not us. We look at reality and make observations about it to come to rational conclusions. You're the one who believes in the existence of a person for whom there is no valid evidence of their existence, and refuses to accept the existence of someone for whom we possess writings of him, his contemporaries, historical records, birth certificates, death certificates and photographs.

Tell me, just who is embracing what is false in that scenario? Who is the person looking and blue and saying it is green?

But animals don't have the aclu.

The American Civil Liberties Union?

 

[Danmac]

Including killing insubordinate children, sacrificing animals and not eating meat on thursdays?

I totally disagree with the meat on Thursdays rule.

Wrong, Christianity is pretty-much exactly the same as all other religions. Even it's central doctrine is not unique to it, and most of it's practices, holidays and myths were lifted from previous pagan rituals and beliefs.

That tells me that you are very ill informed on the subject.

Simple: religion can help people become better people. Some people need that psychological reassurance. But you do not need religion in order to be a good person, and anybody who does is obviously not a good person to begin with.

Religion cant turn Ted Bundy into Mr Rogers. Jesus can

Possible, but extremely, extremely, extremely unlikely considering that neither Darwin nor the theory of evolution harm Christianity in any way, shape or form. Are you seriously suggesting that thousands of scholars, historians and scientists from the last 150 years - many of them Christians - would co-conspire in an elaborate plot to undermine Christianity?

Isn't that what atheists do?

You're the one who believes truth is contrary to reality, not us. We look at reality and make observations about it to come to rational conclusions. You're the one who believes in the existence of a person for whom there is no valid evidence of their existence, and refuses to accept the existence of someone for whom we possess writings of him, his contemporaries, historical records, birth certificates, death certificates and photographs.

Yup. History made the whole Jesus thingy up.

Tell me, just who is embracing what is false in that scenario? Who is the person looking and blue and saying it is green?

From my perspective it is you.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I totally disagree with the meat on Thursdays rule.

I'm hoping that's a joke.

That tells me that you are very ill informed on the subject.

Well, sorry if I trust my point of view and the research of several of my friends - who happen to be Biblical academics - over the point of view of a person who thinks Darwin didn't exist.

Religion cant turn Ted Bundy into Mr Rogers. Jesus can

Then how do you explain the thousands of conversions done by other religions every year, such as Buddhism and Islam?

Isn't that what atheists do?

Nope. Again, you're deluding yourself.

Yup. History made the whole Jesus thingy up.

I never said that. I just said that there is little to no evidence that he existed or that any of the claims made about him are true. Jesus was most likely a composite made from the collective myths of the many different world religions that gathered around that time - history bears this out, since we have uncovered many religious myths prior to Jesus that fit his story almost exactly.

From my perspective it is you.

I already explained why you're wrong. Stop acting as if this is a matter of perspective - it is matter of you denying reality.

 

[Danmac]

I'm hoping that's a joke.

It was. The laws you speak of were theocratic governing laws. The U.S. is not a theocracy. Non Christian nations execute drunk drivers, and cut off the hands of petty thieves.

Well, sorry if I trust my point of view and the research of several of my friends - who happen to be Biblical academics - over the point of view of a person who thinks Darwin didn't exist.

It seems equally silly that you deny that Jesus existed when there is much evidence that suggests that he did.

Then how do you explain the thousands of conversions done by other religions every year, such as Buddhism and Islam?

Conversions and spiritual birthing are two different things.

I never said that. I just said that there is little to no evidence that he existed or that any of the claims made about him are true. Jesus was most likely a composite made from the collective myths of the many different world religions that gathered around that time - history bears this out, since we have uncovered many religious myths prior to Jesus that fit his story almost exactly.

That is why all of Jesus apostles were put to death. For following a myth. I suppose I would lay down my life for a hoax.

I already explained why you're wrong. Stop acting as if this is a matter of perspective - it is matter of you denying reality.

From your perspective I am wrong.

 

[tumbleweed41]

And yet, as the OP asks for, we have yet to see the evidence for Creationism that is equally as valid as the overwhelming empirical evidence supporting the Theory of Evolution.

Whether or no Jesus existed, or if Biblical dietary laws should be followed is completly irrelevant.

 

[painted wolf]

He will reveal himself shortly. What will you do then?

LoL scare tactics won't work on me... I'm a theist.

I will ask God to go easy on those of you who are so weak of faith that you had to shunt God into hypothetical alternate universes and were so blind to the works of God in favor of the writings of men that they resorted to breaking their own commandments against bearing false witness.

wa:do

 

[Tristesse]

And so could you.


There is an element of truth to many religions.



This is the point I make about Darwin. He may not have existed either.


Well I may be lying, but then again I may be telling the truth.



Conscience. That is why humans are the only creatures that experience guilt. Humans are the only creatures with a moral code.

Ok, conscience is a product of the mind. Are you calling the mind a soul? And other animals do have moral codes.

 

[painted wolf]

From personal experience I am persuaded to believe every jot and tittle of the holy scriptures.

You believe in Unicorns then? God was such a poor planner that plants were made before the sunlight they needed to survive...

wa:do

 

[Walkntune]

I have the perfect conclusion to M-Theory.
I call it the super string theory.

Imagine the world, the universe and all energy therein, is made of tiny vibrating strings.
What would that imply...?
I dunno.

...

Imagine if God is energy and all things were created through him and by him and he is in everything!
Imagine if God is the substance that holds all things together like He claims.
Any object under a microscope and you can see more space then particles.

I believe personally science will pull away from materialism and find answers in energy forces and all mysteries will be solved at the sub-atomic level.
Materialism is nothing more than an effect of energy that permeates all of existence and can only be studied as an effect and not a cause.

 

[McBell]

He will reveal himself shortly. What will you do then?

I suspect that I will be laughing my arse off at all those like you who are so sure their right, but find out that they are sorely mistaken.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It was. The laws you speak of were theocratic governing laws. The U.S. is not a theocracy. Non Christian nations execute drunk drivers, and cut off the hands of petty thieves.

Whereas Christian nations burn people they suspect as being witches.

The laws I mentioned can be found in the Bible.

It seems equally silly that you deny that Jesus existed when there is much evidence that suggests that he did.

Such as...?

Conversions and spiritual birthing are two different things.

In what way?

That is why all of Jesus apostles were put to death. For following a myth. I suppose I would lay down my life for a hoax.

I repeat: I never said it was a hoax. It was an idea, a philosophy, an idea with which people can live their lives. People die for those all the time, every day.

Also, can you provide any historical evidence of the apostle's death?

From your perspective I am wrong.

And my perspective is more informed and therefore more likely correct; especially since you outright deny basic facts.

 

[Autodidact]

He will reveal himself shortly. What will you do then?

PM me when He does, and I'll convert to whatever.

 

[Autodidact]

He will reveal himself shortly. What will you do then?

Well he's had a few thousand years to reveal Himself and He hasn't showed up yet, so I'm not going to stay up late waiting.

 

[Danmac]

You believe in Unicorns then? God was such a poor planner that plants were made before the sunlight they needed to survive...

wa:do

My grass was covered by snow for a couple of months this past winter. The absence of sunlight didn't stop it from growing this spring.

 

[Danmac]

Well he's had a few thousand years to reveal Himself and He hasn't showed up yet, so I'm not going to stay up late waiting.

Are you agreeing that he actually existed?

 

[McBell]

Are you agreeing that he actually existed?

You read the Bible with the same agenda filled longing?

 

[Danmac]

PM me when He does, and I'll convert to whatever.

Hold onto your seat. It is about to get very ugly before his return.

Luke 21: 25 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;
26 "men's hearts failing them for fear of the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of heaven will be shaken.
27 "Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 "Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."