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Evolution & God
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
idea
Question Everything
by natural, I think you mean - without thought / intent / intelligence. There is a difference between a rock changing shape / worn down in a riverbed, and a mouse changing the color of it's fur to blend in the the snow in winter. One is a reaction, the other is an action... We can act - not just react - to our surroundings. You don't have to believe in God, but intelligence exists, thought/mind/conscience - the ability to act - this exists, and it does shape living organisms. (not the only thing that shapes them, but it is a major factor that cannot be ignored)
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
You are 100% right, but some are showing themselves as genius and they are
actually far from it,giving unmeaningful examples and even claiming that
they already know everything about evolution and how it happened during
billions of years,and then if you asked them to explain,then they reply
with
You are 100% right, but some are showing themselves as genius and they are
actually far from it,giving unmeaningful examples and even claiming that
they already know everything about evolution and how it happened during
billions of years,and then if you asked them to explain,then they reply
with
Oh you are absolutely right. My examples were far from meaningful.
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FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
:bow:
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
How, exactly, does a mouse "decide" to change the colour of it's fur?
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Good question,The mouse got no power or decision to do that and the nature
also is unable to do so because it is unconscious,so something is programmed
in the mouse to change according to nature,
Pls read my post in biology-online.org as below and the reply from one of the professor within the community regarding "programs in human being".
We are programmed entity
by factsfinder » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:13 pm We are a very complicated programmed entity with a free will and self decision making.
Our brain is the cenrtal processor and our input devices are as follow
1- touching device : that is responsible to send the signal to the brain and each signal is programmed
to produce a different feelings,if the signal were sent from an extremely hot element,then our brain
will send the feeling of pain and the strength of pain is in direct relationship with the signal strength,
but the feeling of pain will come to an end if the touching device were damaged from that extremely
hot element,so heat and the pain feeling are in direct relationship as long as the touching device is active.
2- Watching device : We can understand the programmed action of the watching device is by the feeling
of attraction to the female for her body figure,and this programmed feeling can be noticed if an attractive
fake dummy showing the attraction figure of a woman will let men attracted to look at her as long as they
do not know that it was just a dummy,and even some anomalous will keep looking affected by the programmed
feeling toward the opposite sex resulted from the signal sent to the brain and a man looking for a loin running
towards him,will not resulted in a feeling of demand for the opposite sex,but the feeling of fear and the demand
to run,also our minds are able to define new watching signals with a different feelings,to make it simpler,
watching a man coming towards you will not produce any strange feelings ,but if in a case that a man holding
a gun coming towards you then a feeling of fear will be produced because your brain have already added such
signal as dangerous,in other words your brain have defined the gun as dangerous similar to the lion so you
have the free will whether to run or to fight.
3- Tasting device : the signal is sent to the brain,which will produce different feeling of taste for
each substance,for example,an orange juice with one spoon sugar will send a signal of sweetness
different than the similar juice with 10 spoons of sugar,so our brain will produce the feeling of
taste according to the signal recieved,so it is our free will then to continue drinking the juice
even it is feeled so sweet or not,similar thing to the salty substance,our brain will produce
that feeling of taste according to the signal recieved and it is our free will and decision
making to accept the taste or not,and every person had a different feeling of taste than
the others,some will have the feeling of sweet with less amount of sugar whereas some
need more sugar to have the similar feeling of sweet,so dont surprise that some drink
a very sweet drink whereas you can not,because he have the similar feeling of taste
but with more sugar needed but for you it will taste like hell if you tried to drink it.
Similar thing also to the hearing and smelling devices which is an input signal to the brain
which will produce a different feeling for each signal and it is our free will and decision
making to react according to our feelings.
Re: We are programmed entity
by AstraSequi » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:34 am Most definitely! To use your example, males who have a lesser feeling of attraction for the female will leave fewer children (because they won't be as interested), so over time the population changes as a result - and the change will continue until the conditions change or the costs of further changes outweigh the benefits. Of course, since we're intelligent, we can usually try and override any feeling if we don't think it's in our best interests.
This is why we often speak about "genetic programs" in science - the growth from an embryo to an adult is another really good example.
Last edited by a moderator:
Good question,The mouse got no power or decision to do that and the nature
also is unable to do so because it is unconscious,so something is programmed
in the mouse to change according to nature,
Pls read my post in biology-online.org as below and the reply from one of the professor within the community regarding "programs in human being".
We are programmed entity
We are a very complicated programmed entity with a free will and self decision making.
Our brain is the cenrtal processor and our input devices are as follow
1- touching device : that is responsible to send the signal to the brain and each signal is programmed
to produce a different feelings,if the signal were sent from an extremely hot element,then our brain
will send the feeling of pain and the strength of pain is in direct relationship with the signal strength,
but the feeling of pain will come to an end if the touching device were damaged from that extremely
hot element,so heat and the pain feeling are in direct relationship as long as the touching device is active.
2- Watching device : We can understand the programmed action of the watching device is by the feeling
of attraction to the female for her body figure,and this programmed feeling can be noticed if an attractive
fake dummy showing the attraction figure of a woman will let men attracted to look at her as long as they
do not know that it was just a dummy,and even some anomalous will keep looking affected by the programmed
feeling toward the opposite sex resulted from the signal sent to the brain and a man looking for a loin running
towards him,will not resulted in a feeling of demand for the opposite sex,but the feeling of fear and the demand
to run,also our minds are able to define new watching signals with a different feelings,to make it simpler,
watching a man coming towards you will not produce any strange feelings ,but if in a case that a man holding
a gun coming towards you then a feeling of fear will be produced because your brain have already added such
signal as dangerous,in other words your brain have defined the gun as dangerous similar to the lion so you
have the free will whether to run or to fight.
3- Tasting device : the signal is sent to the brain,which will produce different feeling of taste for
each substance,for example,an orange juice with one spoon sugar will send a signal of sweetness
different than the similar juice with 10 spoons of sugar,so our brain will produce the feeling of
taste according to the signal recieved,so it is our free will then to continue drinking the juice
even it is feeled so sweet or not,similar thing to the salty substance,our brain will produce
that feeling of taste according to the signal recieved and it is our free will and decision
making to accept the taste or not,and every person had a different feeling of taste than
the others,some will have the feeling of sweet with less amount of sugar whereas some
need more sugar to have the similar feeling of sweet,so dont surprise that some drink
a very sweet drink whereas you can not,because he have the similar feeling of taste
but with more sugar needed but for you it will taste like hell if you tried to drink it.
Similar thing also to the hearing and smelling devices which is an input signal to the brain
which will produce a different feeling for each signal and it is our free will and decision
making to react according to our feelings.
Re: We are programmed entity
Most definitely! To use your example, males who have a lesser feeling of attraction for the female will leave fewer children (because they won't be as interested), so over time the population changes as a result - and the change will continue until the conditions change or the costs of further changes outweigh the benefits. Of course, since we're intelligent, we can usually try and override any feeling if we don't think it's in our best interests.
This is why we often speak about "genetic programs" in science - the growth from an embryo to an adult is another really good example.
The article you provided is an explanation of natural selection, an attraction to the opposite sex would be inflamed by the unconscious desire to create an offspring with the greatest chance of survival. This is exactly how evolution takes place, I still don't see how this is your attempt to disprove it.
Me Myself
Back to my username
0_0 who lied you and told you evolution doesn´t have to do with cause and efect?
Animals don´t throw dice and then evolve a tentacle out of their ears
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
0_0 who lied you and told you evolution doesn´t have to do with cause and efect?
Animals don´t throw dice and then evolve a tentacle out of their ears
So, according to your understanding of evolution what was the causes which have it's
effects on the theropod dinosaurs that they evolved to the modern known birds.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Mutation and natural selection plus time.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Good,you said mutation,so what is the cause for mutation which that had it's effect on the evolution process,and was mutation a random process or not.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Too much digression...too many specifics....
God as Creator...why?
Because Someone had to b First...that would be God.
Spirit first or substance?...spirit.
With God first, the creation then follows.
But, He would then stand alone in that effort.
So...Man was created.
(Let's just be amused about it and say God was bored)
Evolution is the process.
God did it.
Does He own His creation an explanation as the process 'gels'?...no.
Does He owe you any proof?....no.
Figure it out for yourself?.....Man seems bent to do so...here we are.
God as Creator...why?
Because Someone had to b First...that would be God.
Spirit first or substance?...spirit.
With God first, the creation then follows.
But, He would then stand alone in that effort.
So...Man was created.
(Let's just be amused about it and say God was bored)
Evolution is the process.
God did it.
Does He own His creation an explanation as the process 'gels'?...no.
Does He owe you any proof?....no.
Figure it out for yourself?.....Man seems bent to do so...here we are.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
There are a lot of causes of mutation - imperfect gene replication, radiation, horizontal gene transfer, etc. etc.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
So good reply,there are several random causes for mutations,and several
random mutations occured.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Depends what you mean by "random", really. They're random, by our standard, in that we have no means whatsoever to predict where mutations will occur, and there is no pattern whatsoever in their occurence generation upon generation. Each and every individual of every species carries in it's genetic code between 100 and 200 completely unique mutations that no other member of their species carry.
Zoe Doidge
Basically a Goddess
It's not really random, nothing is. It's more that it's just too large and too complex a system for us to stick a formula on it and say "that's how it happens".
The causes of individual mutations are varied enough that we call them random, but the collective effect of those mutations inevitably results in natural selection.
The causes of individual mutations are varied enough that we call them random, but the collective effect of those mutations inevitably results in natural selection.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Aye, that sums it up better than I could have.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Saw a documentary about 'random events'.
The study has been raised to a science called 'chaos'.
It displayed in several ways how a repeated action can have predictable results, even thought the repeat had an elusive manner.
For example...no one can calculate the flight path of a dandelion seed.
But left unchecked....a field full of dandelions will happen.
All things set in motion by God.
Given appropriate conditions and chemistry....life.
Given some manipulation....spiritual Man.
What's so hard about that?
The study has been raised to a science called 'chaos'.
It displayed in several ways how a repeated action can have predictable results, even thought the repeat had an elusive manner.
For example...no one can calculate the flight path of a dandelion seed.
But left unchecked....a field full of dandelions will happen.
All things set in motion by God.
Given appropriate conditions and chemistry....life.
Given some manipulation....spiritual Man.
What's so hard about that?