EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[OmarKhayyam]

So will you.

And you may even want a tall cold one to go with it. This makes you what - super smart?

The dog choses not to starve. This is what - unintelligent?

And people die from anorexia. This is what - extra super smart?

 

[Ghostaka]

It's easier to understand if you don't start with people, because our view of ourself is so biased. "Free will" is one of the most difficult philosophical problems, so that just confuses things further.

Nothing difficult about it. Are you reluctant to push further because of the conclusion you will reach?

The basic idea is this: When a trait enables an organism to survive and reproduce, that trait is passed on. So if being smarter helped an ape to survive and reproduce, then smartness was passed on.

Being smarter? Is that a mutation too?

I don't know what Mrs. Gren is.

Movement; Respiration; Sensitivity; Growth; Reproduction; Excretion; Nutrition;

Animals also make choices, just different choices than us.

Too different. They're choices are dependent on their survival essentially. They do not choose to "fight the monster" even after after calculating they'll die.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Nothing difficult about it. Are you reluctant to push further because of the conclusion you will reach?

Right. All the philosophers who have been grappling with it for centuries will be relieved to learn how simple it is.

Being smarter? Is that a mutation too?

Yes.

Movement; Respiration; Sensitivity; Growth; Reproduction; Excretion; Nutrition;

Oh.

Too different. They're choices are dependent on their survival essentially. They do not choose to "fight the monster" even after after calculating they'll die.

You don't know very much Biology, do you? There are many animals who actually choose to die, in many situations.

Anyway, let's not digress. Do you want to learn what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says, or would you rather rail against it from a position of ignorance?

Peace be upon you.[/quote]

 

[Ghostaka]

I disagree. Elephants often trek over hundreds of kilometres, well, before man killed most of them from Zimbabwe to Mozambique. Why would they do this? Not every elephant did it? They would go wherever they wanted to go. Animals do not abide by codes or anything of the sort.

In short. You are still talking about MRS. GREN. That's code bub.

If every animal abided by a code, lions would attack a human every time. However, amazing footage exists of lions being rather friendly to humans rather than tearing them to shreds.

That is because...... we are not coming at them in a threatening manner; ergo, no flight or fight trigger. F/F is considered to be code as well no?

If anything, what you've described is humans. Most of us relocate to major cities because of oppurtunities, food, whatever really.

So there is no such thing as a wilder beast/zebra/elephant migration (or rather) search for water during seasons of doubt?

Peace be upon you.

 

[Ghostaka]

Right. All the philosophers who have been grappling with it for centuries will be relieved to learn how simple it is.

Maybe? If they realized that Allah created everything .

You don't know very much Biology, do you? There are many animals who actually choose to die, in many situations.

Choose to die or cannot survive? Which one? (No need to revive idea; I think you get my point- let's move on...)

Anyway, let's not digress. Do you want to learn what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says, or would you rather rail against it from a position of ignorance?

There you go, you have realized where I am going with this and now want to deny it.

Is Theory of Evolution not at hand? What do you think we've been talking about?

Peace be upon you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Do you want to learn what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says, or would you rather rail against it from a position of ignorance?"

Let me take a wild guess.

He would rather believe his myth. Anything that conflicts with it is wrong - by definition.

 

[Ghostaka]

And you may even want a tall cold one to go with it. This makes you what - super smart?

Nope, "super" free will.

The dog choses not to starve. This is what - unintelligent?

Not at all. It is a demonstration of the dog's abidance to "the code" lol. Mrs. Gren << As I have mentioned multiple times already.

And people die from anorexia. This is what - extra super smart?

Nope, "super" free will once again.

Peace be upon you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Is Theory of Evolution not at hand? What do you think we've been talking about? "

OK. Give us a few lines YOUR understanding of what ToE says. How are new species evolved? Why do they evolve?

 

[Ghostaka]

"Do you want to learn what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says, or would you rather rail against it from a position of ignorance?"

Let me take a wild guess.

He would rather believe his myth. Anything that conflicts with it is wrong - by definition.

Oh so I'm delusional now right? Just a few minutes ago before I spelled out the direction to my point I wasn't "ignorant" to you O objective one?

Peace be upon you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Maybe? If they realized that Allah created everything ."

Really? And your evidence for this is . . .?

 

[Ghostaka]

"Maybe? If they realized that Allah created everything ."

Really? And your evidence for this is . . .?

Such statements in the Qur'an of course. What better evidence is there?

And yet, I did not need to quote any because I used your very own ToE draw your attention to the fact that animals abide by a code. Humans do too, however... and here comes the twist.... we have a taylored-free will that ToE cannot answer for. Ergo, One must have created it, (being in compliance with the Qur'an, Bible, Torah). That One is none other than the Supreme being - Allah (SWT):clap.

So am I too "insane in the membrane" to debate further with you. Switching of your brain now? OK then; until next time... when your arrogance isn't too high a level.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Maybe? If they realized that Allah created everything .

Choose to die or cannot survive? Which one? (No need to revive idea; I think you get my point- let's move on...)

There you go, you have realized where I am going with this and now want to deny it.

Is Theory of Evolution not at hand? What do you think we've been talking about?

Peace be upon you.

I don't know what you've been talking about, but it's not the ToE, which you do not understand. Now please tell me something: are all creationists so rude that you have to ask them a question 4 times to get an answer? Do you want to learn what ToE actually says, or would you rather continue to despise it without understanding it?

 

[Autodidact]

Such statements in the Qur'an of course. What better evidence is there?

And yet, I did not need to quote any because I used your very own ToE draw your attention to the fact that animals abide by a code. Humans do too, however... and here comes the twist.... we have a taylored-free will that ToE cannot answer for. Ergo, One must have created it, (being in compliance with the Qur'an, Bible, Torah). That One is none other than the Supreme being - Allah (SWT):clap.

So am I too "insane in the membrane" to debate further with you. Switching of your brain now? OK then; until next time... when your arrogance isn't too high a level.

Peace be upon you.

Ghostaka: You don't even know what ToE is. Using ignorance as authority--as you are doing--is arrogance.

Let's just assume, for this thread, that Allah created all things and is the Supreme Being, so we don't get de-railed into an argument about that, O.K.? Evolution then becomes only a question of how He did it.

 

[Valjean]

Such statements in the Qur'an of course. What better evidence is there?

Talk about "switching off your brain...
Why is the Qur'an more authoritative than the Tao to Ching, The Gita, or Plato's The Republic?

And yet, I did not need to quote any because I used your very own ToE draw your attention to the fact that animals abide by a code. Humans do too, however... and here comes the twist.... we have a taylored-free will that ToE cannot answer for. Ergo, One must have created it, (being in compliance with the Qur'an, Bible, Torah). That One is none other than the Supreme being - Allah (SWT):clap.

What is this "code" you mentioned? I'm not following. Sorry.
We do have a degree of free will, though I don't see this as exclusive characteristic of humans, but why do you say it can't be scientifically accounted for, or that it must have been "created?" -- logically
that just doesn't follow. And your attribution of this 'creation' to Allah, well, I just don't see anything supporting this but religious mythology.

Shanti.

So am I too "insane in the membrane" to debate further with you. Switching of your brain now? OK then; until next time... when your arrogance isn't too high a level.
Peace be upon you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

"Such statements in the Qur'an of course. What better evidence is there?"

An actual verifiable fact or two might be useful. Have any?

Better yet - just bring your god around for a chat. I'm sure a few questions will clear up this entire matter.:yes:

 

[DarkSun]

However, that is your fault for giving it something that it does not like. Charlie still wants to eat but you're preventing him from doing so in a sense.

Not exactly: :beach: Try again.

Why have we humans "evolved" to have free will and other animals not. That is, by defining free will as having the choice to do other than to eat, sleep/hybernate, reproduce. We can choose whether to do this or not. Sure we might die, but death would be a result of our own choice. For an animal not to follow through with MRS.GREN(?) in such a case would be because of an external factor such as change of environment/food source etc. Animals are therefore are abiding by a law/code. Who has determined this code?

Peace be upon you.

Nothing difficult about it. Are you reluctant to push further because of the conclusion you will reach?
Being smarter? Is that a mutation too?

Movement; Respiration; Sensitivity; Growth; Reproduction; Excretion; Nutrition;

Too different. They're choices are dependent on their survival essentially. They do not choose to "fight the monster" even after after calculating they'll die.

Peace be upon you.

I disagree. Elephants often trek over hundreds of kilometres, well, before man killed most of them from Zimbabwe to Mozambique. Why would they do this? Not every elephant did it? They would go wherever they wanted to go. Animals do not abide by codes or anything of the sort.

In short. You are still talking about MRS. GREN. That's code bub.


That is because...... we are not coming at them in a threatening manner; ergo, no flight or fight trigger. F/F is considered to be code as well no?



So there is no such thing as a wilder beast/zebra/elephant migration (or rather) search for water during seasons of doubt?

Peace be upon you.

Maybe? If they realized that Allah created everything .

Choose to die or cannot survive? Which one? (No need to revive idea; I think you get my point- let's move on...)

There you go, you have realized where I am going with this and now want to deny it.

Is Theory of Evolution not at hand? What do you think we've been talking about?

Peace be upon you.

Why am I still here?

 

[Ghostaka]

Now please tell me something: are all creationists so rude that you have to ask them a question 4 times to get an answer?

Are all evolutionists so ignorant that it would take posting a question 4 times to get them to answer it? Question basis=0

***

​

OK, since we are still in disagreement, let us look at a particular aspect of free will.

What is this "code" you mentioned? I'm not following. Sorry.

If you've been reading the past few posts, you should have come across my mention of "the code" - which is basically Mrs. Gren [grade 7 biology, people!].

***

​

You have acknowledged that human free will is on a different "degree" than animal free will. To simply further: we humans have the will to believe in Allah or not. :bow: Animals - living "the code" and abiding there to, cab be said to be doing what they are supposed to do (Mrs.Gren). In essence, they are worshiping Allah/abiding to His rules - therefore they have limited "free will". That is why there is no paradise/hell for animals; they are not being tested. We on the other hand can choose whether or not to believe in God.

"Such statements in the Qur'an of course. What better evidence is there?"

Better yet - just bring your god around for a chat. I'm sure a few questions will clear up this entire matter.:yes:

Now Omar, there is no need for Him to come to us when you know very well that you (and the rest of us) are going to Him.:yes:

For each [religious following] is a direction toward which it faces. So race to [all that is] good. Wherever you may be, All&#257;h will bring you forth [for judgement] all together. Indeed, All&#257;h is over all things competent. {The Holy Qur'an 2:148}

Furthermore, what would become of your "free will"; no choice but to worship Allah (without associating any partners with Him)? And what would that do to the test?

Talk about "switching off your brain...
Why is the Qur'an more authoritative than the Tao to Ching, The Gita, or Plato's The Republic?

Allah made the Qur'an simple and clear for people to understand. I don't think the uneducated joe can pick up works from Plato and live their life by it do you?

Ghostaka: You don't even know what ToE is. Using ignorance as authority--as you are doing--is arrogance.

On the contrary my friend. Aren't you assuming that your knowledge is 100% but forgetting that evolution is a theory? I would be the first to say that Allah know's best; for He knows what we do not.

Peace be upon you.
---------
Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah&#8217;s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.

 

[Ghostaka]

Why am I still here?

Because this is different angle :drool:.

Peace be upon you.

 

[DarkSun]

Because this is different angle :drool:.

Peace be upon you.

Please explain to us your understanding of the Theory of Evolution. Perhaps we can work from there.

 

[Eddy Daze]

Not flecks... its a pure blend.
You are not looking at Dalmations.

And it is best explained as changes in allele frequencies over time...those alleles being the allele for black and the allele for white.
Each individual has several copies.... say AAAAAA for black and aaaaaa for white. These genes are called co-dominant because they both express equally in the individual.
So an individual with AaAaAa would be the very middle tone of grey.

Start with a population that is AAAAAA. (lets say that AAAAAA can't reproduce with aaaaaa you can't have more than one case difference to reproduce)
one individual has a mutation that makes it just a bit lighter than the rest AaAAAA.
This mutation somehow makes the lighter individual just a bit more likely to reproduce... over time their descendants make up the majority of the population.
Just by the way genetics works eventually one of those descendants is born AaAaAA.
Being a little lighter than the rest, this one too has a better chance at having lots of kids.
Over time this ones descendants now dominate in the population...
And again... AaAaAa...
And again... aaAaAa...
and again... aaaaAa...
and finally... aaaaaa... Now a genuinely white individual is born. It being lighter than the rest can reproduce a bit more successfully and over time it's descendants dominate the population.
Yes there very well may be some AAAAAA individuals living somewhere... but they are now so different from the aaaaa population that they can't interbreed. Thus you would now have a "black species" and a "white species".

wa:do

ps. an allele is a gene that codes for a specific trait. (in this case color)

I think that is confusing the matter a bit, as the colour blend was used as an anology of evolution, or one species becoming another, the fact that some creatures become albinos (or lose their pigment)does not mean they are evolving into new species, also a black object can become bleached but does this make it a new object?