themadhair
Well-Known Member
Remind me again why Muslims have fallen behind in the scientific states over the last 1,400 years?
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EVOLUTION, what a lie.
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Remind me again why Muslims have fallen behind in the scientific states over the last 1,400 years?
Response: Sorry, but in order to be reminded, it has to take place first.
themadhair
Well-Known Member
Remind me again about the new biological revolutions that creationism has been spawning? So far I count nothing, despite the idea being around for millennia.
From the TO archive I see the following being presented as positive contributions to science by evolutionary theory:
Evolutionary theory has been put to practical use in several areas (Futuyma 1995; Bioinformatics, a multi-billion-dollar industry, consists largely of the comparison of genetic sequences. Descent with modification is one of its most basic assumptions.
Diseases and pests evolve resistance to the drugs and pesticides we use against them. Evolutionary theory is used in the field of resistance management in both medicine and agriculture (Bull and Wichman 2001).
Evolutionary theory is used to manage fisheries for greater yields (Conover and Munch 2002).
Artificial selection has been used since prehistory, but it has become much more efficient with the addition of quantitative trait locus mapping.
Knowledge of the evolution of parasite virulence in human populations can help guide public health policy (Galvani 2003).
Sex allocation theory, based on evolution theory, was used to predict conditions under which the highly endangered kakapo bird would produce more female offspring, which retrieved it from the brink of extinction (Sutherland 2002).
Tracing genes of known function and comparing how they are related to unknown genes helps one to predict unknown gene function, which is foundational for drug discovery (Branca 2002; Eisen and Wu 2002; Searls 2003).
Phylogenetic analysis is a standard part of epidemiology, since it allows the identification of disease reservoirs and sometimes the tracking of step-by-step transmission of disease. For example, phylogenetic analysis confirmed that a Florida dentist was infecting his patients with HIV, that HIV-1 and HIV-2 were transmitted to humans from chimpanzees and mangabey monkeys in the twentieth century, and, when polio was being eradicated from the Americas, that new cases were not coming from hidden reservoirs (Bull and Wichman 2001). It was used in 2002 to help convict a man of intentionally infecting someone with HIV (Vogel 1998). The same principle can be used to trace the source of bioweapons (Cummings and Relman 2002).
Phylogenetic analysis to track the diversity of a pathogen can be used to select an appropriate vaccine for a particular region (Gaschen et al. 2002).
Ribotyping is a technique for identifying an organism or at least finding its closest known relative by mapping its ribosomal RNA onto the tree of life. It can be used even when the organisms cannot be cultured or recognized by other methods. Ribotyping and other genotyping methods have been used to find previously unknown infectious agents of human disease (Bull and Wichman 2001; Relman 1999).
Phylogenetic analysis helps in determining protein folds, since proteins diverging from a common ancestor tend to conserve their folds (Benner 2001).
Directed evolution allows the "breeding" of molecules or molecular pathways to create or enhance products, including:
enzymes (Arnold 2001)
pigments (Arnold 2001)
antibiotics
flavors
biopolymers
bacterial strains to decompose hazardous materials.
Directed evolution can also be used to study the folding and function of natural enzymes (Taylor et al. 2001).
The evolutionary principles of natural selection, variation, and recombination are the basis for genetic algorithms, an engineering technique that has many practical applications, including aerospace engineering, architecture, astrophysics, data mining, drug discovery and design, electrical engineering, finance, geophysics, materials engineering, military strategy, pattern recognition, robotics, scheduling, and systems engineering (Marczyk 2004).
Tools developed for evolutionary science have been put to other uses. For example:
Many statistical techniques, including analysis of variance and linear regression, were developed by evolutionary biologists, especially Ronald Fisher and Karl Pearson. These statistical techniques have much wider application today.
The same techniques of phylogenetic analysis developed for biology can also trace the history of multiple copies of a manuscript (Barbrook et al. 1998; Howe et al. 2001) and the history of languages (Dunn et al. 2005).
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Compared to the rest of the world, Islamic countries and scientists have made the smallest contribution to science in the last 700 years.
Response: Science is not a fund raiser. You can't "contribute" to it. It's a practice.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Science means scientific discoveries. An example would be finding a cure to polio, to aids, to cancer etc. This also includes discoverinng new species of animals and so on..... science is broad.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Haven't done that either. I am saying that it doesn't give them an excuse to dismiss evidences such as the Qur'an.
Their type of evolution conflicts with yours.
Neither do I, however I do have a problem with people claiming that God does not exist when our surroundings fit us too perfectly (to be a coincidence)
Yes we could.
Peace be upon you.
How many times I have I said this in this thread? NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT ALLAH DOES NOT EXIST. You claim to understand ToE, but keep mis-stating it. Are you deliberately lying then? Why do you keep claiming that ToE claims something that it doesn't. For the purpose of this thread, we are all agreeing that Allah created all things. The only thing science can investigate is, how?
Do you think science is a bad way to learn about how Allah created the world?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Start a thread. Call it: evidence for and against the Q'uran. This thread is about evolution.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Can you see how utterly illogical your statement is? If not, I will explain it to you, but even without understanding evolution at all, you should be able to figure out why this makes no sense.
Are you yet another Muslim who doesn't know the first thing about ToE, but feels qualified to critique it? What do they teach you'all in school?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
You disagree that Muslim states are lagging behind Western democracies in science? I would love to start a thread on that, that would be interesting. Can we keep this one for discussing evolution? Thanks.
Response: Then by that definition, no one has contributed to science because we don't have cures for none of the above.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Would you like to start a thread? It is a fact that at this time Muslim countries lag behind the rest of the developed world in contributing to science. It's not because Muslims are less intelligent, it's because they receive an inadequate education, and their governments don't value science. Posts in this thread make that clear. To do science, you first have to study it. Understanding what it is helps as well. The level of ignorance expressed by Muslims in this thread is making me sad. I feel very sorry for you; you have been mis-served and misinformed.
If there are any American Christian creationists reading this thread, let it be a warning to you what happens when you let religion dictate education.
p.s. Do you know what an example is? It's not the same as a definition.
[QUOTE:Autodidact]Would you like to start a thread?
Response: If you want.
Quote: Autodidact/
It is a fact that at this time Muslim countries lag behind the rest of the developed world in contributing to science.(End quote)
Response: You can't contribute to science. It's a practice. If you mean "scientific discoveries", do you have any proof?
Quote: Autodidact/
It's not because Muslims are less intelligent, it's because they receive an inadequate education, and their governments don't value science. Posts in this thread make that clear. To do science, you first have to study it. Understanding what it is helps as well. The level of ignorance expressed by Muslims in this thread is making me sad. I feel very sorry for you; you have been mis-served and misinformed.
If there are any American Christian creationists reading this thread, let it be a warning to you what happens when you let religion dictate education.(End quote)
Response: Intelligence is not based on what agrees with Autodidact. There is nothing unintelligent on this thread concerning science by any muslim. If it were, you would have been able to prove it. That however has not been the case.
Quote: Autodidact/
p.s. Do you know what an example is? It's not the same as a definition.[/QUOTE]
Response: Yes. Do you?
Response: If you want.
Quote: Autodidact/
It is a fact that at this time Muslim countries lag behind the rest of the developed world in contributing to science.(End quote)
Response: You can't contribute to science. It's a practice. If you mean "scientific discoveries", do you have any proof?
Quote: Autodidact/
It's not because Muslims are less intelligent, it's because they receive an inadequate education, and their governments don't value science. Posts in this thread make that clear. To do science, you first have to study it. Understanding what it is helps as well. The level of ignorance expressed by Muslims in this thread is making me sad. I feel very sorry for you; you have been mis-served and misinformed.
If there are any American Christian creationists reading this thread, let it be a warning to you what happens when you let religion dictate education.(End quote)
Response: Intelligence is not based on what agrees with Autodidact. There is nothing unintelligent on this thread concerning science by any muslim. If it were, you would have been able to prove it. That however has not been the case.
Quote: Autodidact/
p.s. Do you know what an example is? It's not the same as a definition.[/QUOTE]
Response: Yes. Do you?
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Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Fatihah:
It's not very important, so can we put that aside for now and talk about evolution?
And would you like a lesson in the quote function?
For all the creationists in this thread (who for a nice change of pace are Muslim rather than Christian):
You have shown through your posts, all of which misconstrue and misrepresent the Theory of Evolution (ToE) that you either do not understand it or are lying. I prefer to think that you're misinformed. I have asked over and over whether you want to learn what it actually says, and the response (other than silence) has been that you understand it perfectly well. Unfortunately, that leads back to the only other alternative, which is that you are lying. This forces me to ask you why you go on to the internet to lie about scientific discoveries.
Can you shed any light?
It's not very important, so can we put that aside for now and talk about evolution?
And would you like a lesson in the quote function?
For all the creationists in this thread (who for a nice change of pace are Muslim rather than Christian):
You have shown through your posts, all of which misconstrue and misrepresent the Theory of Evolution (ToE) that you either do not understand it or are lying. I prefer to think that you're misinformed. I have asked over and over whether you want to learn what it actually says, and the response (other than silence) has been that you understand it perfectly well. Unfortunately, that leads back to the only other alternative, which is that you are lying. This forces me to ask you why you go on to the internet to lie about scientific discoveries.
Can you shed any light?
[QUOTE:Autodidact]Fatihah:
It's not very important, so can we put that aside for now and talk about evolution?
And would you like a lesson in the quote function?(End quote)
Response: I'm on this site through my blackberry phone so my ability to quote is limited. I post my post in the way that is most convenient for me.
Quote: Autodidact/
For all the creationists in this thread (who for a nice change of pace are Muslim rather than Christian):
You have shown through your posts, all of which misconstrue and misrepresent the Theory of Evolution (ToE) that you either do not understand it or are lying. I prefer to think that you're misinformed. I have asked over and over whether you want to learn what it actually says, and the response (other than silence) has been that you understand it perfectly well. Unfortunately, that leads back to the only other alternative, which is that you are lying. This forces me to ask you why you go on to the internet to lie about scientific discoveries.
Can you shed any light?(End quote)
Response: You see, what you call "true" is what's in contention. ToE doesn't make sense at all. You believe that it does, hence the reason for the debate. It's not that we don't understand or we are lying or misinformed, it's the simple fact that it makes absolutely know sense and you want us to believe that it does. However, if you feel differently and want to show differently, the floor is yours.
It's not very important, so can we put that aside for now and talk about evolution?
And would you like a lesson in the quote function?(End quote)
Response: I'm on this site through my blackberry phone so my ability to quote is limited. I post my post in the way that is most convenient for me.
Quote: Autodidact/
For all the creationists in this thread (who for a nice change of pace are Muslim rather than Christian):
You have shown through your posts, all of which misconstrue and misrepresent the Theory of Evolution (ToE) that you either do not understand it or are lying. I prefer to think that you're misinformed. I have asked over and over whether you want to learn what it actually says, and the response (other than silence) has been that you understand it perfectly well. Unfortunately, that leads back to the only other alternative, which is that you are lying. This forces me to ask you why you go on to the internet to lie about scientific discoveries.
Can you shed any light?(End quote)
Response: You see, what you call "true" is what's in contention. ToE doesn't make sense at all. You believe that it does, hence the reason for the debate. It's not that we don't understand or we are lying or misinformed, it's the simple fact that it makes absolutely know sense and you want us to believe that it does. However, if you feel differently and want to show differently, the floor is yours.
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Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
If you don't know what ToE says, how do you know whether it makes any sense?
How does this sound. I'll explain to you what ToE actually says, and then you can say whether it makes any sense.
I will then explain what the evidence is that caused Biologists to accept it, and then you can say whether it's good enough.
Sound good?
How does this sound. I'll explain to you what ToE actually says, and then you can say whether it makes any sense.
I will then explain what the evidence is that caused Biologists to accept it, and then you can say whether it's good enough.
Sound good?
Response: Sounds good.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Great. At least one brave, open-minded person. I commend you.
First, some background. The Theory of Evolution (ToE) is a scientific theory in a specific field, Biology. It answers two questions: Why do we have so many different kinds of organisms, and why are they so varied and suited to their environments. It has nothing to do with the origin of life, origin of the universe, or whether or not there is a God.
For that reason, we can assume that Allah created all things, and use science only to examine how He did so.
ToE provides a natural explanation for these very important questions.
It is helpful to understand a little bit about science itself, what it is, how it works and what it does. Rather than start with a big digression into all of that, I will fill it in only as necessary, such as if someone asks why ToE is "only a theory" or something like that.
I would also like to remark that ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. I am ignorant of many things. It is not a vice as long as the person is willing to admit ignorance and learn, rather than trumpet it as a source of authority.
I'm doing housework, but will be in soon to start an explanation. I hope painted wolf will be by to help.
First, some background. The Theory of Evolution (ToE) is a scientific theory in a specific field, Biology. It answers two questions: Why do we have so many different kinds of organisms, and why are they so varied and suited to their environments. It has nothing to do with the origin of life, origin of the universe, or whether or not there is a God.
For that reason, we can assume that Allah created all things, and use science only to examine how He did so.
ToE provides a natural explanation for these very important questions.
It is helpful to understand a little bit about science itself, what it is, how it works and what it does. Rather than start with a big digression into all of that, I will fill it in only as necessary, such as if someone asks why ToE is "only a theory" or something like that.
I would also like to remark that ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. I am ignorant of many things. It is not a vice as long as the person is willing to admit ignorance and learn, rather than trumpet it as a source of authority.
I'm doing housework, but will be in soon to start an explanation. I hope painted wolf will be by to help.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
While holy books can provide deep spiritual truths and guidance, they tend to not stand up well to scientific scrutiny... I find trying to justify faith with science... or vice versa, tends to not go well.
Like opposite sides of a coin, they exist together but not always face to face.
Only by a shade of degree. I'm willing to personally see Creator's work in the universe, but I realize that professionally I can't let the untestable into the equation.
Science seeks to explore what we can test and know by our own hands.
I don't think that Creator set up the universe in such a way, that we can not understand how it works and how it came to be (at least most of it). Why give us such minds, such curiosity and such evidence to follow otherwise.
well, I hesitate to call our surroundings perfect.... perfection is a personal judgment and too easy for others to pick apart. Plus it's hard to reconsile 'perfect' with things like natural disasters.
Then again, that is one of the challenges of faith is it?
wa:do
Response: Not much to disagree with I must say. However, I'll ask my questions whenever your ready.