EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[S-word]

one in a milion.

And where are the other 999,999 other male transional forms stored, I'd like to see them all. I didn't realise they were so abundant.

 

[Alceste]

ok then why aren't malaysans black? and why are the native australians black?

I was simply introducing you to a map, because of your claim Arabs are "closer to the equator than anybody".

I'm staying out of the rest of the debate. I haven't got much patience for threads where creationists pretend they understand the theory of evolution already and refuse to learn anything from folks who actually do.

 

[Gharib]

Then you believe in evolution.

no i don't beleive in evolution, the sort of examle theat i would give you that i beleive is me living in another country, i have to addapt there, but i do not need to become some sort of an animal, or change my skeletal structure.

That's all evolution is. It is small changes in species

i never knew that becoming human from an ape was such a small change. do you have some evidence. of ape to monkey not being such a big change.

 

[Gharib]

I was simply introducing you to a map, because of your claim Arabs are "closer to the equator than anybody".

I'm staying out of the rest of the debate. I haven't got much patience for threads where creationists pretend they understand the theory of evolution already and refuse to learn anything from folks who actually do.

ok no problem thanks, i hope someone else can answer then.

 

[Magic Man]

ok give me your strong points, educate me, and if i am agains it i will show why i am agaisnt it. lets talk about the thing that you know best, and we'll see how we go. is that ok by you?

Well, not that I expect you to listen, but I'll give it a few minutes of my time.

As I just said, evolution is just small changes in species to adapt to their environment. You already said that you know human beings' bodies adapt to their environments. That's all there really is to it. A species of fish at some point made its way into a marshy area to get away from predators, and eventually over many generations developped feet instead of fins to facilitate getting through all of the branches and clutter in the marshy living area. Then, after many more generations they adapted to living on land. And so on and so on.

Dinosaurs didn't turn into birds by flapping their arms. Some dinosaurs had wings, like the Pterodactyl. Others that evolved into flying creatures had the right body type, including light bones and light muscle structure.

Of course saying "A dinosaur became a bird" sounds ridiculous. It sounds as ridiculous as saying "My 6-year-old son became a lawyer". Of course, he was 26 when he became a lawyer, so there was a lot in between. Big changes occur in evolution, but only over long periods of time.

 

[Gharib]

And where are the other 999,999 other male transional forms stored, I'd like to see them all. I didn't realise they were so abundant.

i do not have them in my home, cos i do not beleive in them. you should know you beleive in evolution.

 

[Magic Man]

no i don't beleive in evolution, the sort of examle theat i would give you that i beleive is me living in another country, i have to addapt there, but i do not need to become some sort of an animal, or change my skeletal structure.

Yes, you do believe in evolution. If you accept that human bodies adapt to their environment, you accept evolution. It's that simple.

You don't need to change your skeletal structure, but over many generations it might change to better suit that environment. Remember, evolution isn't something that just happens over a couple of years (at least not for species like humans). It takes hundreds and thousands of years to see even semi-major changes.

And, by the way, you are some kind of animal. Humans are animals. The point is that evolution doesn't say that you're going to change into something else in your lifetime. It says that if your environment changes drastically that future generations will change to fit it better. The changes won't be very noticeable until long after you're dead.

i never knew that becoming human from an ape was such a small change. do you have some evidence. of ape to monkey not being such a big change.

I didn't say it wasn't a big change. In fact, I've said that it's not. I said species change in small ways until it adds up to a big change (sometimes) after many generations. Of course going from an ape similar to a gorilla to a modern human is a big change, but it happened over the course of millions of years, and it happened in tiny stages of small changes. It wasn't like, all of a sudden *poof*, one day it's a gorilla, the next day it's a human.

As I said in my last response, saying "an ape turned into a human" is like saying "my 6-year-old son became a lawyer". There were a lot of steps in between that make it quite a bit less ridiculous.

 

[S-word]

i do not have them in my home, cos i do not beleive in them. you should know you beleive in evolution.

If you had even the slightest clue as to my belief, you would know that I believe in creation through the process of the slow and gradual growth of the mind that is God, which cloud of swirling ever changing patterns of invisible wave particles that is the mind that is God, evolves on the information gained from the interaction of the ever changing swirling conglomerations of wave particle patterns, and is perceived as the visible Cosmos.

 

[kai]

Yes, what happened to the fossils of the eyes in their arse specie? Did they dissapear?

Heneni

there still out there ----waiting :yes:

 

[England my lionheart]

if its about survival then how did everything come to be. it isn't chance right.

No its not chance its about a species doing what it needs to do to survive

 

[Diederick]

Evolution is very much an established reality. It is a fact.
Do your research (haha), Deists: Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

evolution is a false beleif. it all started with darwin.

No, it didn't. The first records we have of someone suggesting that the species we see today descended naturally from earlier creatures are from the ancient Greeks.

Later on, Muslim scholars acknowledged the fact that new species emerged from earlier ones and weren't simply created in their present form directly by God:

Whereas Greek and Roman evolutionary ideas died out in Europe after the fall of the Roman Empire, they were not lost to Islamic scientists and philosophers. In the Islamic Golden Age, early ideas on evolution were taught in Islamic schools.[14] John William Draper, the 19th-century scientist, philosopher and historian, discussed the 12th-century writings of al-Khazini as part of what he called the "Mohammedan theory of evolution". He compared these early ideas to later biological theories, arguing that the former were developed "... much farther than we are disposed to do, extending them even to inorganic or mineral things".[14]

The first Muslim biologist and philosopher to speculate in detail about evolution was the Afro-Arab writer al-Jahiz in the 9th century. He considered the effects of the environment on an animal's chances for survival, and described the struggle for existence.[15][16] Ibn Miskawayh's al-Fawz al-Asghar and the Brethren of Purity's Encyclopedia of the Brethren of Purity (The Epistles of Ikhwan al-Safa) set forth ideas on how species developed: from matter into vapor and thence to water, then minerals into plants and then animals, leading to apes and, finally, humans.[17][18] The polymath Ibn al-Haytham wrote a book in which he argued for evolutionism (although not natural selection). Numerous other Islamic scholars and scientists, such as Abū Rayhān al-Bīrūnī, Nasir al-Din Tusi, and Ibn Khaldun discussed and developed these ideas. Translated into Latin, these works began to appear in Europe after the Renaissance and may have had an impact on Western science.[16]

Source: History of evolutionary thought - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And back in Europe closer to Darwin's time, the fact that species arose naturally was an established scientific fact for more than a century before On the Origin of Species was published. What Darwin did was discover the mechanism by which this occurred... but he didn't do it alone; he only published when he did because he was worried about Wallace stealing his thunder.

the reason why i cannot be a muslim if i believe in evolution is because evolution tells people that they were created by chance. while Allah says "i created you from a drop of water" so if believe in evolution then i do not believe in Allah, and if i believe in Allah i cannot believe in evolution.

That's incorrect. There have been many Muslims who believed in evolution.

And frankly, who are you to say that Allah would have been incapable of using evolution as His tool to create life on Earth? Isn't that rather presumptive of you?

 

[Jose Fly]

Two quick observations...

Eselam keeps saying one thing or another about "evolution", but no one has asked him exactly what he means by "evolution". So Eselam, when you say "Evolution is a lie", what do you mean by "evolution"? Please be as specific as possible.

Also this whole thing about events occuring "by chance" is a strawman. Some of you are forgetting the two most basic components behind evolution, mutation and selection. Selection, by its very definition, is non-random. Using the example of coin flipping given, once we introduce a selective element, improbable outcomes (such as all heads) become inevitable. "Selection" allows you to keep the successes (heads) and carry them forward to the next trial. That changes the process dramatically.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

1. - Eselam. You must agree that without a working knowledge of a thing; your condemnation of it is willful ignorance. And that is NOT the path to enlightenment.
I cannot teach you evolution and the scientific process here and now. You must seek it out. However, I recommend the book Defending Evolution: A Guide to the Creationism/Evolution Controversy.
2.- Adaptation is NOT Evolution. I adapt to extra sunlight by making extra melanin. I adapt to cold by constricting my peripheral vasculature to preserve core body heat. A population evolves by one or more new offspring being born and growing to the age of reproduction with some trait that makes it easier for them to survive and reproduce. You and I, and everyone else here CANNOT and WILL NOT evolve. The vast majority of our offspring will have nothing new under the sun. Many unfortunates among our offspring will have mutations that are bad for them (retardation, malformed limbs, auto-immune disorders, etc...). But perhaps a few will have just the right set of white blood cells (that you and I will NEVER have) that lets our lucky few children survive the next big plague. And they will survive to have children who are also immune to that one particular virus.
3. - You, and multiple others here are thinking FAR, FAR too tiny a scale both in time and space, in order to grasp evolution. Even DarkSun's example ....

If I had the time to flip a coin fifty-billion times, would you expect me to get fifty-billion heads?

50 billion coin flips is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING compared to the number of chemical reactions occuring in your body alone, in this 1 single solitary second. Or in the lightbulb above your head. Or the birds outside your window.....in every bird....every dog, cat, sheep, reptile, bug, fish, human, plankton, bacteria.......EVERYWHERE across this one tiny planet among billions of trillions of trillions of planets that likely exist.
...times 86,400 seconds a day....
...times 365 days a year....
....times ?what? 12-20 BILLION YEARS in the universe?

50 billion flips? :slap: Bah!!! The significance of their passing would be like that single photon passing by your left foot.

.... if he had the power to create a universe and make it stand without any pillars, then why would he turn to evolution, he is powerfull and can create everything.

Since you have yet to study evolution, then consider (just consider) for a second that evidence for evolution DOES exist. First, as you and I have agreed, the existence of evolution, even of humans, DOES NOT deny the existence of God.
Then you have asked "why would he turn to evolution?". ....and I answer...."Why would He not?" Are you second guessing the Almighty? Are you chastising Him for his technique, because it makes you uncomfortable? Or it makes you have to do some analytical reading and thinking? Perhaps that is why Allah DID use evolution. Perhaps he WANTS humans to use the one feature that seperates us from all of the "lesser" animals. ... .... Our enlarged cerebral cortices (our brains!). :thud:

... simple really.

.... would you accept the fact that our saciety (that of today) can never reach the technology era of other civilisations before us. we are nothing comapred to those civilisations, .....

You lost me here. Don't go all "Noble Savage" on me.

so does batman, whats your point?

He was pointing out that you have stopped your own critical analysis. You got to a point where the questions became hard to think about, and *Poof* you made up an imaginary, magical and powerful character (like superman) to aswer all the tough questions, so that you can relax and stop hurting your brain over the bigger questions posed by the universe and God.
That is to say. Whipping out the God card everytime the conversation gets rough, is for wimps.

... Henry Fairfield Osborne...

Are you suggesting that there has NEVER been a religous charlatan? Should we judge all religion and thoughts of spirituality on the example of a religous charlatan? Strawmen, and cherry-picking data are a good way to convince others that you don't know what you are talking about. :tsk:

one in a milion.

You are aware that of the fossilized humanoid bones found to date, there are equal numbers of males and females, aren't you?

 

[DarkSun]

you know i've seen that neanderthal face before. wait, who is it????? oh yes, have you seen the movie 2 fast 2 furious tokyo drift? do you know the guy that shows up at the end of the movie for the last race, yeah it's that guy. look it up if you wish, i can't remember his real name so i can't get any pictures for you. it's as if his twin was a neanderthal almost 4 milion years ago.
and by the way there are 3 different skeletal structures of todays people they are 2 and the other is a round skeletal structure. thats why there are round faced people.

yes i know this. that is true.

well just why is it that arabs are nor white nor black. no one is closer to the equator than them, and thay have been around for millions or years. just as the africans have been.

Diet also plays a role, not just sun exposure. If you eat a lot of red to orange foods, you will have a high exposure to carotene, which is the protein responsible for yellow-ish skin pigmentation. As generations pass, the need for carotene will be recorded in your DNA, and the RNA produced in the nucleolus of cell membranes will come to produce it.

And also, didn't Africans used to cover their bodies a lot less than those people in the Middle East? They were exposed to more sun, so naturally, their race became darker in order to cope.

yes i'm furmiliar with this.

Then you would also be familiar with the fact that neanderthal skeletons have been found, and dated back to 50,000 BC, right? And that they have also proven that these skeletons were significantly different from those of modern man?

no he was the guy that found a pigs tooth in the US and not only did he create the creature to whom the tooth it belonged (he beleived that it belonged to a transitional form i think it was of a neanderthal) but he even was able to know in what sort of environment it lived, the family members it had, plus some other friends. and he only made all that from a extinct pigs tooth. know imagine if evolutionists find something bigger than a tooth, say a hand or even a finger, they would be able to construct the whole universe from a single finger. you see how much lies they make up from something so little. and there was the other time when an orangutans mouth area was found (the lower face) and the upper face of a human, just because they were found close to each other, they had to belong to one creature, thus they made a face that looked like half a man and half an orangutan. do you know what surprises me, they never ever have found a female transitional form, it is always the males that they find, i wonder who gave birth to all the children.

 

[Stellify]

*sigh* Ok, sorry for coming into this late......But eselam, it really seems like you don't have as much of a grasp of evolution theory as you think. Or, at the very least, I think you refuse to see evolution theory from others' points of view, your religious beliefs get in the way. JMHO.

just as flapping our arms to kill the flies because they are over-populating, we could somehow develop wings right. from the flapping.

This quote is what initially made me think you don't really know what you're talking about. The example is so off-base, I don't think it's even worth trying to correct :sorry1:

"Detailed comparisons of Neanderthal skeletal remains with those of modern humans have shown that there is nothing in Neanderthal anatomy that conclusively indicates locomotor, manipulative or linguistic abilities inferior to those of modern man."



well yes there are differences once in a while, look what we have acheived now and look back at what they had acheived, our daily life constantly requires us to use our brain about everything, hard things, unsolvable things. the Cro Magnon didn't have to figure out how to raise a 100 story building nor how to convert corn into energy. everyone should expect a change there or a difference. thats not some big surprise.

Just because there's nothing in Neanderthal anatomy that says their abilities were inferior, that doesn't mean they weren't different. So, I don't see how that quote helps?

As for the second part of this quote.....Our brains have evolved and changed, too....because of our use of them. It seems to me like your kind of agreeing with evolution here. As you said, everyone should expect a change. It's not some big surprise.

evolution is a false beleif. it all started with darwin. he saw some different types of birds and whala the whole thing started of from there. how can someone just look at different species of birds and their beacks and say that it has to do with naatural selection, the birds with big beacks survive while the small beacked birds don't. lets try that here ok. we've got the white american pelican and we've got a sparrow. how is that possible. the pelican won't allow a bird stick to get in its way, it has a bigger mouth, thus it will eat a lot more food than the sparrow. but, this is the important bit, the sparrow does not need to eat as much as the pelican because it's body is smaller, so it will get fed up by just a few mouth fulls. so this has to do nothing with animals evolving. heres another example. the lions are stronger than anyother animal, so the can take the food or a cheetah anytime they want. so know just because the cheetah is less stronger, it doesn't mean that they are evolving into lions, they are simply dying, and the lions are growing because they do not die searching for food. thats not natural selection, it's simply a way of life. if it is natural selection (i am sue you are going to say that) then which stronger animal is eating the tiggers' food. they too are dying out, it's not natural selection. pretty soon a lot of species will die out, so what. we can't argue with god.

Once again, your arguments here are completely off. Pelicans and sparrows are completely different species. They have different environments, diets, behavior.....each has and is evolving to suit their own particular environments. I don't see what you're getting at by comparing the two like that.

Same with lions and cheetahs and stuff. Lions may be stronger, but cheetahs are faster. Each has its own hunting habits and such. I don't see how your argument makes sense? Sorry.
And of COURSE cheetahs aren't evolving into lions! That's not how evolution works...
Cheetahs are dying for more reasons that simple availability of food. They're being hunted, and their decreasing population is causing their gene pool to shrink, so inbreeding has become a huge problem and seriously compromised their immune system.

oh i wonder which parts make sense. let me list a few:

1 bears became whales.

2 dinosaurs became birds because they were waving their arms around to kill flies.

3 chimps have 48 cromosomes and humas have 46, they must be related, just look at how close they are. here's the funny thing. humans have 46 cromosomes, potatoes have 46 cromosome. now why are humans related to monkeys and not to potatoes.

up to here none of these make sense. do you have any examples that actually do make sense. please list them.

Never have I seen anyone claim that bears turned into whales. If you're referring to land mammals turning into sea mammals, then you need to do a little more research and understand what was involved.

Also never saw anyone claim that dinosaurs waved their arms around to kill flies, and thus evolved into winged creatures....where did you hear that?

It's not about the number of chromosomes so much as it is the similarities in DNA. If you had any idea what you were talking about, I think you would know this....

well then there is this example; if god was so powerfull why would he have no powers to create man but rather to evolve apes into man.

What makes the idea of God going *poof* and creating Man so much better than God giving Man a slow development and adaptation to the world? Why would God, just because he's powerful, choose to do the whole *poof* thing? I don't get why some religious types think that the one is so much better than the other..?

no it isn't a lie. but the parts that speak about addaptation are fine, everyone needs to addapt. but saying that ape.............=man that is a lie or a cover up by evolutionists.

What would they be trying to cover up?

so does batman, whats your point?

Sorry...couldn't let this go...
Batman doesn't really have powers. Unless you consider his money or mind enabling him to have cool toys to be powers, I guess...Or his crime-fighting badassery....That's why I always favored him above others

i never knew that becoming human from an ape was such a small change. do you have some evidence. of ape to monkey not being such a big change.

You left out a rather important part of mball's quote when you replied like this....I think selective reading/quoting/replying like that is one of the reasons you're getting things wrong...Here's the quote again, so you can read it more thoroughly, maybe?

Then you believe in evolution. That's all evolution is. It is small changes in species over a period of time dependant on several factors, the main one of which is lifespan. Fruit flies evolve more quickly than humans because they live less than a day. That's why they use them for experiments, because you can see new species develop very quickly.

Anyway, that's all evolution is, species adapting to best suit their environments. After a certain amount of time those changes make them so different that they are considered a different species.

Notice the part about "over a period of time", especially.
You seem to think that the rise of a new species is always a quick thing, or happens all at once, but it's not. You should go look into it more. Truly.

no he was the guy that found a pigs tooth in the US and not only did he create the creature to whom the tooth it belonged (he beleived that it belonged to a transitional form i think it was of a neanderthal) but he even was able to know in what sort of environment it lived, the family members it had, plus some other friends. and he only made all that from a extinct pigs tooth. know imagine if evolutionists find something bigger than a tooth, say a hand or even a finger, they would be able to construct the whole universe from a single finger. you see how much lies they make up from something so little. and there was the other time when an orangutans mouth area was found (the lower face) and the upper face of a human, just because they were found close to each other, they had to belong to one creature, thus they made a face that looked like half a man and half an orangutan. do you know what surprises me, they never ever have found a female transitional form, it is always the males that they find, i wonder who gave birth to all the children.

You'll notice that by now it is known that what he found was a pig's tooth, though, right?
Scientists don't just blindly accept any theory someone puts on the table. They are always trying to disprove the different things that come up in an effort to sort out what's true from what's not.
Scientists aren't always correct, but over time the fallacies are found and people try to sort them out.
At least they're trying and searching for knowledge, and have found some concrete evidence for what they believe. Not everyone can say the same....

 

[Autodidact]

Mu guess, esalem, is that like most people who do not accept the Theory of Evolution, you have no idea what it says.

 

[Autodidact]

just as flapping our arms to kill the flies because they are over-populating, we could somehow develop wings right. from the flapping.

That's not the Theory of Evolution, that Lamarckism, the theory that Evolution displaced. Tell you what, before you decide whether you agree or disagree with the Theory of Evolution (ToE), let's first teach you what it is. Then either you'll accept it, or you'll be in a much better position to reject it. After all, how can you reject something without knowing what it is? You wouldn't want to sound like an ignorant fool, would you?

 

[Autodidact]

are you somehow offended by using the word "lie", would you like me to change it? please say so.

I'm not offended, you're just wrong. Well, that's up to you, it depend on whether you want to be correct or not.

 

[Autodidact]

evolution is a false beleif. it all started with darwin. he saw some different types of birds and whala the whole thing started of from there. how can someone just look at different species of birds and their beacks and say that it has to do with naatural selection, the birds with big beacks survive while the small beacked birds don't. lets try that here ok. we've got the white american pelican and we've got a sparrow. how is that possible. the pelican won't allow a bird stick to get in its way, it has a bigger mouth, thus it will eat a lot more food than the sparrow. but, this is the important bit, the sparrow does not need to eat as much as the pelican because it's body is smaller, so it will get fed up by just a few mouth fulls. so this has to do nothing with animals evolving. heres another example. the lions are stronger than anyother animal, so the can take the food or a cheetah anytime they want. so know just because the cheetah is less stronger, it doesn't mean that they are evolving into lions, they are simply dying, and the lions are growing because they do not die searching for food. thats not natural selection, it's simply a way of life. if it is natural selection (i am sue you are going to say that) then which stronger animal is eating the tiggers' food. they too are dying out, it's not natural selection. pretty soon a lot of species will die out, so what. we can't argue with god.

Well that's all fascinating, but has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution (ToE.) Are you ready to learn some science yet?

the reason why i cannot be a muslim if i believe in evolution is because evolution tells people that they were created by chance.

NO, it doesn't.

while Allah says "i created you from a drop of water" so if believe in evolution then i do not believe in Allah, and if i believe in Allah i cannot believe in evolution. evolution is specifically created to take people astray, all evolutionists are atheists, they do not beleive in god, this was an opportunity for them to not believe in god, by simply saying we have proof that chance created us, so still something created us, but they do not accept it.

Well you've got a huge problem then, esalem, because ToE is correct. If continuing to be a Muslim depends on denying the truth, you just might want to reconsider your position.