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EVOLUTION, what a lie.

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
christianity and islam believe that god created us, we weren't formed by chance. nothing is formed by chance. i do not see how most people that i have met around in RF beleive that everything was created from chance. chance is nothing, it's a probability, now god, thats something. god has powers. chance has no powers. evolution starts of with chance and finishes with natural selection. believing in evolution is way more complicated than believing in god.

But you are limiting evolution to the Athiests version. What about the belief that God set evolution in motion? Could God not have started the process billions of years ago? Everyone likes to claim hes so powerful but can't comprehend him creating evolution as a process to get from one point to another. All your arguements center around evolution as guided by chance. Well, what if the process is guided by God instead. Is it still a lie?

Fundamentalist reject the idea of evolution mostly because it interfers with their literal interpretation of the bible which states the earth was created in 7 days and the fact that we evolved from apes is uncomfortable for them. If God is behind evolution then our coming from apes is his process and therefore we are his creation as is everything. But that doesn't follow the literal interpretation of the bible so it can't be tolerated.

Note: The above concepts are not my personal beliefs but rather how some non-fundamentalist Christians have explained evolution to me. I think its a wonderful rationalization.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
no kai i didn't "chance upon it" i thought of it, god has given me a brain to think. i'm glad someone has something to smile about.

i'm beginig to wonder are you "evolution" beleivers really going to answer my questions or just make something up by chance and ignore it. i'm just asking for a simple debate sort of thing. is that so hard kai. please tell me.
Hi eselam. :)
I'm sorry that I have come into this late, but I would be happy to debate you. I have only had time to skim the whole thread, so I will hit a few of the points that I've seen. Then we can work from there.
well you cannot be a muslim if you beleive in evolution. so it is not an american thing but rather an islamic thing.
I'm sorry. But Islam does allow for evolution. Only certain more orthodox sects of Islam choose to deny evidence (as will be discussed later) Islamic scripture allows reading that the idea that God created the entire universe many billions of years ago, then set the processes of stellar mass, gravity, planet solidification, volconology, etc...etc.... and lastly evolution, into motion. (God just gave evolution a nudge, to get the ball rolling) :cool:
what does soil have to do with you claiming that man came into being by chance. was the soil involved in any way. i'm no giologist nor a biologist. please bring something we can discuss. i was created from soil so why don't you refute my claims. (this too should be interesting):p
He is pointing out the age of the planet we all live on. Also, that by studying the soil one can see evidence of many, many, MANY creatures that have once lived on the Earth, and yet are now extinct.
Thus, if Earth and mankind were created at the same time, then why are is their clear cut evidence in the soil of plant life on Earth predating animals of ANY kind? By a matter of hundreds of millions of years. Then with the rise and fall of various dinosaurs groups over hundreds of millions of years, yet still no evidence of humans.
Then birds and small mammals appear many millions of years ago. But no apes, and definitely no humans. :no: Only in the few uppermost layers of soil do we even begin to see larger apes.
Then in the top layer of soil we see evidence of "early humans", followed later by evidence of them using tools and building homes (of various forms). ..... Continuing to better their tools, and changing body structure...... until at last old actual "human" (homo sapien) skeletons are found.

There can only be two conclusions.
1. Evolution is on display in the the layers of soil.
2. God has a wicked sense of humor, creating a young planet with undeniable evidence of it being an incredibly old planet. Including fossils of preceding plants and animals and humanoids (with phenotypic and genetic, step by step gradual alterations). All in order to.......What?....?? :shrug: ??..... Fool us? Make us beleive in evolution? Force us to beleive in evolution?
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
yes there is a lot of "evidence" for evolution thats why i cannot accept it. the part that i do not believe is how is it possible to say that chance (wich is just a word meaning random) has created everything and god hasn't. now legs go to a bit more detail.

chance creates everything and even before the word chance came into existence it was able to create everything. so i'm surprised why the creator (in this case chance was created after the creation). after millions of years it creates a creature, or it comes into being because of chance and natural selection, so i'm just wondering the body of the creature was formed right, it decided that all the legs will face one direction (the front) so then how does chance know that it needs eyes infront and not at the back. i mean we are talking about chance. whats the probability that you with your eyes closed will be able to stick the donkeys tale in his behind. thats impossible. and yet chance managed to get everything right and so perfect as if it had a mind. now chance is a word don't forget that. anyone care to explain this.

IMO it has nothing to do with chance but survival and that why is said Necessity is the Mother of evolution
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
did you also know that my skeletal structure is different to a dwarf. by time they do change but not from a crouching position walking an all 4's to standing up and walking on 2 legs.

as for the neanderthal, i'll just quote what prominent authority has said

"Detailed comparisons of Neanderthal skeletal remains with those of modern humans have shown that there is nothing in Neanderthal anatomy that conclusively indicates locomotor, manipulative or linguistic abilities inferior to those of modern man."

While their anatomy does not conclude that their abilities were different from modern man, their anatomy was different.

I mean, look at this:

picture-comparing-cranium-of-a-modern-man-to-neanderthal-man.jpg


Surely you can see the difference there.

It is a proven scientific fact human bodies adapt to best suit their environments.

I mean, look at all of the races on earth. People with darker skin generally appear closer to the equator, and this simply because people are more exposed to the sun in those areas.

Melanin is the chemical responsible for black skin in your body, right? When the melanocytes (melanin cells) in the epidermal layers of the skin are exposed to greater levels of UV light, this stimulates their nucleolus to produce greater amounts of melanin-producing RNA. The melanin excreted by the cell as it dies in the latter layers of the epidermis protects against the sun as a natural sunscreen. The more sun you're exposed to, the more melanin your skin-cells produce and the darker the skin you have.

Eventually, your need for melanin becomes recorded in your DNA and gets passed on to later generations, so that eventually, they will naturally have black, melanin rich skin.

Conversely, people near the northern hemisphere have white skin which is more proned to flushing. The red colour comes from the oxygenated hemoglobin proteins in your blood, and the lack of black skin is because of the lack of sunlight exposure in those areas.

Skin colour is just one way by which human beings naturally adapt to their environment. If you need proof of it, just look to Asians, Africans, Europeans and note down the obvious differences that do exist. All of these races adapted, they evolved.

From homo-erectus, to homo-habilis, to homo ergaster, to homo-sapien and homo-neanderthalis to modern man, the same adaptions were happening, just on a much larger and broader scale. Humans were gradually adapting from an ape-like, primitive level to more sophisticated, complex and intelligent beings.





were have i admited it? in which of my previous posts have i mentioned the Neanderthals. i was just using the ice age as an example. and how do you know that Neanderthals lived during the ice age, did some evolutionists scetch up an environment just because they found a pigs tooth.

No... it's called carbon dating.

Usually you allow for an error of around 5000 or 10,000 years when going back as far as the last ice-age (50,000 years ago).

You know how carbon-dating works, right?

are you farmiliar with Henry Fairfield Osborne.

Didn't he advocate evolution?
 
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darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
what does soil have to do with you claiming that man came into being by chance. was the soil involved in any way. i'm no giologist nor a biologist. please bring something we can discuss. i was created from soil so why don't you refute my claims. (this too should be interesting):p

You're quite amusing. Evolution isn't just biological but geological. Geologically we can estimate the age of the earth at around 4.5 billion years.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
yes there is a lot of "evidence" for evolution thats why i cannot accept it. the part that i do not believe is how is it possible to say that chance (wich is just a word meaning random) has created everything and god hasn't. now legs go to a bit more detail.

chance creates everything and even before the word chance came into existence it was able to create everything. so i'm surprised why the creator (in this case chance was created after the creation). after millions of years it creates a creature, or it comes into being because of chance and natural selection, so i'm just wondering the body of the creature was formed right, it decided that all the legs will face one direction (the front) so then how does chance know that it needs eyes infront and not at the back. i mean we are talking about chance. whats the probability that you with your eyes closed will be able to stick the donkeys tale in his behind. thats impossible. and yet chance managed to get everything right and so perfect as if it had a mind. now chance is a word don't forget that. anyone care to explain this.


The theory of evolution does not disprove the existence of God. If anything, it implies that a creator must have existed. Life on earth is much too complex for all of it to have come about by chance. Maybe God was the architect of evolution.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
The theory of evolution does not disprove the existence of God. If anything, it implies that a creator must have existed. Life on earth is much too complex for all of it to have come about by chance. Maybe God was the architect of evolution.

Thats only true if you believe so. Complexity does not add weight to to the possibility of God. If anything, our genetic similarities with other animals indicates either the lack of God, or God being lazy.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Thats only true if you believe so. Complexity does not add weight to to the possibility of God. If anything, our genetic similarities with other animals indicates either the lack of God, or God being lazy.

If I had the time to flip a coin fifty-billion times, would you expect me to get fifty-billion heads?
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
If I had the time to flip a coin fifty-billion times, would you expect me to get fifty-billion heads?

Technically you should get 25 billion of both, that usually doesnt happen though. There is a chance though you would get 50 billion heads though.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
Technically you should get 25 billion of both, that usually doesnt happen though. There is a chance though you would get 50 billion heads though.

Well, the chance is less than 1 * 10^-99... :p

Edit: Sorry about the typo.

Edit (02):

I was just using the binomial distribution function on my calculator, but then I realised that I could express the probability as,

0.5 ^ 50,000,000,000
 
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darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Well, the chance is less than 9.99' * 10^-99... :p

The chance is still there though :yes:

Its like playing roulette at the casino. If there are something like 15 blacks in a row, there is a 1.5x10^-4 chance another black will show up, but it does.
 

logician

Well-Known Member
The theory of evolution does not disprove the existence of God. If anything, it implies that a creator must have existed. Life on earth is much too complex for all of it to have come about by chance. Maybe God was the architect of evolution.

Dawkins, among others has excellent arguments against this statement.
 

DarkSun

:eltiT
The chance is still there though :yes:

Its like playing roulette at the casino. If there are something like 15 blacks in a row, there is a 1.5x10^-4 chance another black will show up, but it does.

What am I saying! Of course there's a chance.

Oh, look, the sun just turned into a bunch of hydrogen sausages before going plop. :D
 

Gharib

I want Khilafah back
But you are limiting evolution to the Athiests version. What about the belief that God set evolution in motion?

and what about saying that god never put anything in motion, he takes care of his creatures the way he wants. there's no chance/evolution to it.

Could God not have started the process billions of years ago?

yes he might have, and he is still continuing with process.

Everyone likes to claim hes so powerful but can't comprehend him creating evolution as a process to get from one point to another.

well then there is this example; if god was so powerfull why would he have no powers to create man but rather to evolve apes into man.

All your arguements center around evolution as guided by chance. Well, what if the process is guided by God instead. Is it still a lie?

no it isn't a lie. but the parts that speak about addaptation are fine, everyone needs to addapt. but saying that ape.............=man that is a lie or a cover up by evolutionists.

Fundamentalist reject the idea of evolution mostly because it interfers with their literal interpretation of the bible which states the earth was created in 7 days and the fact that we evolved from apes is uncomfortable for them.

the earth was created in 6 days. and the reason why it is uncomfortable is because god says he created Adam as the first human, thus he did not evolve from an ape or any of the transitional forms.

If God is behind evolution then our coming from apes is his process and therefore we are his creation as is everything. But that doesn't follow the literal interpretation of the bible so it can't be tolerated.

no, humans did not evolve, do you know where the starting point of this is, the point that god has nothing to do with evolution, but instead chance does, the big bang. and the formation of the universe, the cell being created, etc.

Note: The above concepts are not my personal beliefs but rather how some non-fundamentalist Christians have explained evolution to me. I think its a wonderful rationalization

yes it is a quite good explanation.
 
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