EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[Ghostaka]

And I say it's true and Allah is the creator.

Allah is the creator.​

***
​

This at least the 20th time I have told you that I am NOT saying that Allah is NOT the creator. Why can you not understand this?

Ask yourself why you are an atheist if you accept this. Be truthful dear woman.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: I just spent the last 20 minutes or so trying to find the post in which you responded to one of mine saying that ToE does not go together with God or something of that nature. Unfortunately, I can't find it. If you say you didn't say it, I'll take what I said back. The post was not meant to insult you and I apologize if I did.

I've never heard of someone believe in God and ToE. That changes everything. I honestly don't know how to respond right now. I'll get back to you when I do.

Good night.

You've never heard of Dr. Kenneth Miller? Or Francis Collins? Or Salman Hameed? Many people believe that the true orginator of the Theory of Evolution is not Darwin, but the great 11th century Muslim scholar, Ibn-Maskwaih. Have you never heard of Maurice Bucaille, who claims that Evolution is a Muslim discovery?

 

[Autodidact]

Thats the point, we are assuming species change into new ones, because of change...the only logical thing is that change is observeable, to assume and reclassify a species means that you are assuming new species are coming because change can be observed.

No, not assuming, concluding. It's the opposite. Do you know what the definition of a species is?
When a population changes enough to meet this definition, then we conclude, not assume, conclude, that a new species has evolved.

 

[Ghostaka]

I swear to God, I cannot even swallow right now I am such utter amazement with what you people are telling me right now.

 

[JMorris]

Copy? That is not Allah's challenge to those that think the Qur'an was fabricated by humans. Allah challenges you to WRITE A NEW CHAPTER/PAGE LIKE IT. Who is this anyone? I cannot believe that with all your "intelligence and objectivity" you claim to have, that you are being serious right now.

Peace be upon you.

let me go learn how to write in Arabic, and ill write a whole new chapter of nonsense for you

if a person does not believe the quran, why would they go through the trouble of trying to write a new chapter that resembles the rest of the book? makes no sense

but im sure this guy could have (had he actually wanted to waste his time):

The inhabitants of the earth are of two sorts: Those with brains, but no religion, And those with religion, but no brains.

• Abu'l-`Ala' al-Ma`arri, d. 1057, poet of Ma`arra; quoted in The Crusades Through Arab Eyes, by Amin Maalouf

 

[Autodidact]

Response: Then why do you believe that God exists but don't believe his message (the qur'an)?

Start a thread. This is completely inappropriate and an irrelevant diversion. And preaching is not allowed.

 

[Autodidact]

You quote from humans? Allah challenges you to produce a chapter in the likes of those in the Qur'an. Once you fail (and you will), then you will realize that you cannot dismiss the Qur'an as evidence.

Peace be upon you.

Stop it. Just stop it. Do not derail this thread about science into an exercise into proslytizing for your religion. It's completely unacceptable behavior.

In turn, I will not do the same to you.

 

[Autodidact]

Response: A muslim accepts the qur'an as truth so no muslim would take the challenge. The challenge is for those who doubt the qur'an to be true.

Fine. Now go start a thread and get out of this one.

 

[Autodidact]

Doesn't variation in creatures on the Earth demonstrate the power of Allah? Allah is able to make variation in His creation. If He didn't, there would be a standard issue human.. specific height, hair color? [/qute] Yes, exactly. That's what I'm saying. Using a brilliant method like evolution demonstrates the power of Allah.

You say that can be explained by evolution/genetic mutation? OK then people, let us take the most simplest example of Allah's Might.... Biometrics. In particular, FINGERPRINTS. Not a single one is exactly the same as the other.

Is not God great?

Can you explain to me why there would be any reason for a uniqueness in fingerprints according to evolution/natural selection? How would it affect the survival of a species?

Before we go into sub-sub-examples, let's understand the basic theory. Unfortunately you can't do that when you deny the actual facts on which it is built.

 

[Autodidact]

None did, like i always say, Muslim scholars are fabricating the meaning of their scripture to make it mean something it didnt mean 20 years ago.

You too. Don't take the bait. Go have a nice thread somewhere else.

 

[kai]

Fine. Now go start a thread and get out of this one.

I think Autodidact is right this "Challenge" deserves its own thread and let this one take its course

 

[Ghostaka]

let me go learn how to write in Arabic, and ill write a whole new chapter of nonsense for you

if a person does not believe the quran, why would they go through the trouble of trying to write a new chapter that resembles the rest of the book? makes no sense

but im sure this guy could have (had he actually wanted to waste his time):

IT IS A CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE ON EARTH. THOSE THAT BELIEVE THAT THE QUR'AN IS NOT WRITTEN BY ALLAH NEED TO TRY IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES TO PROVE ALLAH'S WORD UNTRUE.

You are showing me that you can claim that the Qur'an is not the word of Allah yet you cannot prove it by a means that Allah Himself has proposed?

Peace be upon you (& the caps were necessary, trust me)

 

[darkendless]

What else is Allah talking about in this verse tell me? You are being "willfully ignorant" as you like to say.

If you do not understand it's meaning, at least see the fact that nobody at that time would have enough information to fabricate the verse you quoted. What does that show?

Allah is All-Knowing, All-Seeing, All-Hearing.

Peace be upon you.

No, i'm seeing the verse for what it is. It in no way outlines the complicated process of embryonic development. To say sperm was mixed with clay that formed blood and a baby is just wrong.

Wilful ignorance is unapplicale to scripture, people have different interpretations. You theists move the goal posts and take the literal meaning when it suits you.

 

[Ghostaka]

I think Autodidact is right this "Challenge" deserves its own thread and let this one take its course

I'll do the honors Kai.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Autodidact]

Who do you think wrote it tell me? In it's orginal language; Arabic, the verses/rhythm and rhyme etc cannot possibly be written by any man. I can guarantee you. This is why it is impossible for you to replicate it (even a single page--not matter WHO tries) and therefore you fail Allah's challenge.

Peace be upon you.

Ghostaka and others. Start a thread. Get this irrelevant discussion out of this one. In this thread, we agree that Allah is the creator, etc. etc.

 

[Fatihah]

On the contrary, we do see it. So much so, that for Fatihah to maintain his beliefs, he is forced to assert that reputable scientists are simply lying about what they observe. He doesn't know them, has no basis on which to assert that they're lying. But if they're telling the truth, he might have to move into the 19th century and accept one of the greatest advances in scientific knowledge made over 150 years ago, so he has the affrontery (and is willing to risk being sued for slander) to call them liars.

Here are instances of observed speciation, the exact thing that you deny exists. Now I'm sure you will change your views as a result. NOT.

Response: And here is an instance of observed speculation:

"Narrated By Abdullah

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the prophet and it became two parts. The prophet said, 'Witness, Witness. (The miracle) Sahih Bukhari Volume 6 Book 60 number 388

Here we see that people saw a miracle of Muhammad in which he split the moon. So why is your account true and mine false?

 

[Autodidact]

Response: And here is an instance of observed speculation:

"Narrated By Abdullah

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the prophet and it became two parts. The prophet said, 'Witness, Witness. (The miracle) Sahih Bukhari Volume 6 Book 60 number 388

Here we see that people saw a miracle of Muhammad in which he split the moon. So why is your account true and mine false?

I don't know whether yours is true or false, and refuse to explore this red herring. For all I know, it could be true. I don't know enough about it. Now, back to the subject at hand.

 

[kai]

for those interested in the alleged cleaving of the moon there is already a thread on that.


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/72703-split-moon.html

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidac]Well we have this really neat thing called science. It uses evidence, and it allows us to know things we can't see, by using the scientific method and gathering evidence. It has enabled much of the world to advance out of the dark ages. You might want to join us. Or not.

Response: You can't determine something evolved without seeing it do so.

(/Quote Autodidact)
Exactly. And those signs all point to evolution. Therefore it is clear that by rejecting those signs, and calling them lies, you are not being a good Muslim.(End quote)

Response: Then prove that those signs are evolution.

 

[Autodidact]

[QUOTE Autodidac]Well we have this really neat thing called science. It uses evidence, and it allows us to know things we can't see, by using the scientific method and gathering evidence. It has enabled much of the world to advance out of the dark ages. You might want to join us. Or not.

Response: You can't determine something evolved without seeing it do so.

(/Quote Autodidact)
Exactly. And those signs all point to evolution. Therefore it is clear that by rejecting those signs, and calling them lies, you are not being a good Muslim.(End quote)

Response: Then prove that those signs are evolution.

Just as I have told you several times that science does not deny God, and ToE does not deny God, I have also told you several times that science isn't about proof. It's about evidence. What we are going to see is evidence--a lot of it.

When I have to repeat myself over and over, it makes the thread really long. Try to learn, please.

Still haven't mastered those quote tags?