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EVOLUTION, what a lie.

Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
So Fatihah, unless you see something with your own eyes, you don't believe it? You reject all of modern science? Science doesn't work? I thought Islam was in favor of science.

(third time for asking this) Even see an atom? Do they exist?
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Ghostaka said:
IT IS A CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE ON EARTH. THOSE THAT BELIEVE THAT THE QUR'AN IS NOT WRITTEN BY ALLAH NEED TO TRY IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES TO PROVE ALLAH'S WORD UNTRUE.

You are showing me that you can claim that the Qur'an is not the word of Allah yet you cannot prove it by a means that Allah Himself has proposed?

Peace be upon you (& the caps were necessary, trust me)
Click to expand...
can't be true.
Your font is at least three sizes to small for it to be true.
Because everyone knows that the bigger the font you use, the more truth there is in what you say.
 
Ghostaka

Ghostaka

Active Member
Autodidact said:
Stop it. Just stop it. Do not derail this thread about science into an exercise into proslytizing for your religion. It's completely unacceptable behavior.

In turn, I will not do the same to you.
Click to expand...

At the time, it was related. JMorris said that the Qur'an could not be used as evidence. My mention of the challenge was in reference to that.

I am not proselytizing. I am replying to your comments.

Peace be upon you.

P.S. From the comments I've seen you post, you do not seem to fit in the religious category you address yourself by. :D
 
Ghostaka

Ghostaka

Active Member
Mestemia said:
can't be true.
Your font is at least three sizes to small for it to be true.
Because everyone knows that the bigger the font you use, the more truth there is in what you say.
Click to expand...

Lol, nice try however.... I increased my font size so that I can assure myself that you have read it. Attention grabbing device I would say ;). It seemed to be that people did not understand what the challenge was about. That was my reason. I even apologized in advance :areyoucra LOL!.

Peace be upon you.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Ghostaka said:
Backbiting is a :no::no:.

Peace be upon you.
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I understand that you discard facts on a whim to protect your little box.
You go right ahead and continue to do so.

But do not get your panties in a bunch when people who are not afraid of the truth present it.
 
Ghostaka

Ghostaka

Active Member
Mestemia said:
I understand that you discard facts on a whim to protect your little box.
You go right ahead and continue to do so.

But do not get your panties in a bunch when people who are not afraid of the truth present it.
Click to expand...

Likewise foo'! Have I not provided any facts in this thread?

Peace be upon you.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Ghostaka said:
Lol, nice try however.... I increased my font size so that I can assure myself that you have read it. Attention grabbing device I would say ;). It seemed to be that people did not understand what the challenge was about. That was my reason. I even apologized in advance :areyoucra LOL!.

Peace be upon you.
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I was not trying to do anything but point out that when you use huge fonts it does nothing more than make you look desperate.
And I am not interested in your Hovindian Challenge.
 
Ghostaka

Ghostaka

Active Member
Mestemia said:
I was not trying to do anything but point out that when you use huge fonts it does nothing more than make you look desperate.
And I am not interested in your Hovindian Challenge.
Click to expand...

If you have nothing but negative comments to say, then you shouldn't post... it makes "you look desperate" to insult people.

Peace be upon you.
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Autodidact said:
With science, you can. You can analyse the spectrograph. You can make the item available to anyone who wants to see it, ask 1000 of them what color they saw, and if 999 of them say "red," accept that the item is red.

Have you ever seen an atom? Do they exist?
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Response: You can't analyze a spectograph without sight. You can't go to people and have them confirm the color they "see" without them using their " sight". It's really not that difficult to understand. You need sight in every example you've just given, thus you need sight to determine color. To say otherwise on your part is completely absurd.

No I have never seen an atom and they do exist.
 
Autodidact

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Fatihah said:
Response: You can't analyze a spectograph without sight. You can't go to people and have them confirm the color they "see" without them using their " sight". It's really not that difficult to understand. You need sight in every example you've just given, thus you need sight to determine color. To say otherwise on your part is completely absurd.
Click to expand...
You're mistaken. First, you didn't say see evidence of color--that's how science works. You said, see the color itself. Second, a computer can analyse the spectrograph and announce the color to you verbally. A blind person can know what color something is, but only by using science. Science enables us to know things that we can't see for ourselves directly. For example,

No I have never seen an atom and they do exist.
Click to expand...

O.K., we have now established that:

(1) You do believe in the existence of things you have never seen.
(2) You do so because you trust the scientists who study them.
(3) There is nothing in the qu'ran that contradicts ToE, which in fact may be an Islamic discovery.
(4) Many Muslim and Christian and Jewish scientists accept, work with and further ToE.
(5) ToE is not an atheist theory, any more than plumbing. It assumes there is a God, or not, as you prefer. It is about the natural world only. If you believe in Allah, then ToE only tells you how He created, not whether He did. So, asserting that ToE is false because Allah is the creator makes no sense.
(6) The noble qu'ran instructs us to study nature to learn Allah's ways, so we should welcome scientific research into nature.
(7) Science isn't about proof, it's based on evidence. So asking scientists to prove something makes no sense. The question is, what is the evidence?

You agree to all that?

You deny that new species have been observed coming into existence. However, I provided you with two detailed examples, and a link to 29 more. The only way to deny this fact is to call the many scientists who have studied them liars, although you have no basis on which to do so.
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
Autodidact said:
I don't know whether yours is true or false, and refuse to explore this red herring. For all I know, it could be true. I don't know enough about it. Now, back to the subject at hand.
Click to expand...

Response: This is the subject at hand. Why don't you know? You are not claiming that it's a fact that Allah exists and the qur'an to be true. Yet the evidence you have for ToE is no different than the evidence I presented to prove the existence of Allah and the prophethood of Muhammad. Why do you accept one evidence and not the other?
 
F

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE Autodidact]Because you yourself can go to Galapagos and examine these finches. You can examine the scientists' data.(End quote)

Response: And you can examine the writings of scholars who account the eyewitnesses of the miracle taking place? So once again, why do you accept your account to be true and not the other?

(/Quote Auodidact)
You can spend 20 years on the Galapagos, and see exactly what they see.(End quote)

Response: No you can't.

(/Quote Autodidact)
Or you can look at the data from scientists who went there in the 50's, and compare it to the observations of others that went there in the 90's. And you can see that all of the data is consistent, and is also consistent with other scientific observations and laws.(End Quote)

Response: And you can look at the "isnad", the chain of authentic narration from scholars that lead to Muhammad and those who witnessed the miracles. So once again, why do you accept your account as true and not the other?

(/Quote Autodidact)
Can I see the moon cleft asunder? Can I talk to all the people who saw it?[/QUOTE]

Response: No. And you also can't see a species evolve into another and yet you accept it as true.
 
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